Panasonic ZT60 (now ZT65)

[Deleted member 2457]

That is what you have always said anyway, but are you sure you are going to be able to deal with the fact of not owning the best TV in the world any longer?

Oh well, I'll own the best projector in the world instead!

Cool, nice one!

Look forward to seeing it.

 

[strapped for cash]

That is what you have always said anyway, but are you sure you are going to be able to deal with the fact of not owning the best TV in the world any longer?

Oh well, I'll own the best projector in the world instead!

You're not made of money...

Going back to the subject of Panasonic customer service, I'd be willing to bung Panasonic £500 to make my GT50's screen uniform. Without the dirty screen effect, I'd happily live with the television for several years (I've decided a 50" TV is plenty big enough for me).

However, I'm certain one of two things would happen if I contact Panasonic, as I've read too many accounts elsewhere.

1. Panasonic would advise that the problem is "within specification" by email and do absolutely nothing to help.

2. Panasonic would send an engineer round to look at the TV. The engineer would describe the problem as "within specification" or advise that there is no problem. Either way, my TV wouldn't be any better and I'd be charged for wasting the engineer's time.

In other words, Panasonic's customers have two options:

1. Suck it up.

2. Pay Panasonic more to tell you you're imagining the problem (in other words, pay Panasonic to tell you to suck it up).

It's a sorry state of affairs. I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed from here.

 

[BenLaw]

Do you pay them afterwards or before? If afterwards, I'd ask for written proof of the specifications in order to demonstrate that the TV is within spec before paying the bill. It seems like a meaningless phrase to me. Doesn't it just mean 'we're incapable of making them without faults'?

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Have you given up Strapped?

I thought you were prepared to live with it to see if it improved?

If you've given up, ring JL, tell them how you feel, and see what they offer. If you can get a refund, do it, because it sounds like you're never going to be happy with your GT, and any replacement will be the same.

If you do get a refund, bank half the money, and look around for either a LX508D or LX5090 with some warranty left, ou will not be disappointed with either I can assure you.

Then sit and wait for a suitable replacement in another year or so. You never know, this new set of Panasonics might just have perfect screen uniformity. There's always the Samsung option , their plasmas have greatly improved, and if they could just go that little bit further, and iron out some of their niggles, you'd have a great tv on your hands.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Do you pay them afterwards or before? If afterwards, I'd ask for written proof of the specifications in order to demonstrate that the TV is within spec before paying the bill. It seems like a meaningless phrase to me. Doesn't it just mean 'we're incapable of making them without faults'?

I agree with Ben, and I'm sure any court of law would agree that faults on thousand pound tvs are not acceptable, and so can not be within spec.

 

[strapped for cash]

Based on accounts I've read, you'd pay afterwards, as the engineer would need to determine that "there isn't a problem" first.

I think the "within specification" phrase simply means our legal department has found a disclaimer we're happy to roll out each year to avoid hugely expensive product recalls/repairs.

Maybe Panasonic plasma owners could sign a petition. With 1,000 signatures we could get the issue debated in Parliament; though I suspect the nasty party would sneer at consumers and take the corporate view.

I recall Ann Robinson taking a Panasonic exec to task on the subject of rising blacks on the G10 and V10. Even then, owners ultimately had to live with the problem.

What's really frustrating is that I feel like an idiot repeatedly complaining about this. There are of course far more pressing problems than poor screen uniformity on Panasonic plasma televisions; though I also think we should be able to buy a TV that works properly for four figure sums.

 

[strapped for cash]

Have you given up Strapped?

I thought you were prepared to live with it to see if it improved?

If you've given up, ring JL, tell them how you feel, and see what they offer. If you can get a refund, do it, because it sounds like you're never going to be happy with your GT, and any replacement will be the same.

If you do get a refund, bank half the money, and look around for either a LX508D or LX5090 with some warranty left, ou will not be disappointed with either I can assure you.

Then sit and wait for a suitable replacement in another year or so. You never know, this new set of Panasonics might just have perfect screen uniformity. There's always the Samsung option , their plasmas have greatly improved, and if they could just go that little bit further, and iron out some of their niggles, you'd have a great tv on your hands.

Thanks for the suggestions BBB.

That sums up what I'm thinking. To be honest, I become more frustrated each time I spot lighter and darker bands on the right hand side of the screen.

I need to ask JL how long they're willing to let me live with the TV to see if things improve. It would help if we knew what causes the problem. If it's the AR filter, I can't see things improving; if it's down to the way the panel is driven, this may become a non-issue further down the line.

I think simply accepting the TV as it is would be giving up.

 

[bigboss]

That is what you have always said anyway, but are you sure you are going to be able to deal with the fact of not owning the best TV in the world any longer?

Oh well, I'll own the best projector in the world instead!

You're not made of money...

By "best projector", I mean best projector for the money! I'm not looking to spend more than £3000 for one.

 

[BenLaw]

Based on accounts I've read, you'd pay afterwards, as the engineer would need to determine that "there isn't a problem" first.

I think the "within specification" phrase simply means our legal department has found a disclaimer we're happy to roll out each year to avoid hugely expensive product recalls/repairs.

Well that's interesting. Trying to force them to do a repair, the ball would be in your court. But if they were trying to force you to pay the ball would be in their court. Ie they would have to establish you'd called them out unnecessarily, ie that the TV was within spec. I'd love to know how they'd go about proving the obvious fault is within spec. Especially as you could publicise any material they sought to rely on. I'd call them out for a repair and then spoil for a fight if they try and make you pay.

 

[strapped for cash]

I'd call them out for a repair and then spoil for a fight if they try and make you pay.

Thanks for the advice, Ben.

I think I should call John Lewis first. My contract is with the retailer and I have greater faith in John Lewis's customer service. Spoiling for a fight with Panasonic sounds time consuming and stressful. I'm willing to be stubborn if I end up dealing with Panasonic directly, though.

Hopefully John Lewis will clearly outline my options.

 

[BenLaw]

I'd call them out for a repair and then spoil for a fight if they try and make you pay.

Thanks for the advice, Ben.

I think I should call John Lewis first. My contract is with the retailer and I have greater faith in John Lewis's customer service. Spoiling for a fight with Panasonic sounds time consuming and stressful. I'm willing to be stubborn if I end up dealing with Panasonic directly, though.

Hopefully John Lewis will clearly outline my options.

You're quite right, of course. I've just felt my hackles rising with these reports of panasonic customer services and was considering options to equalise the fight, but your priority obviously is getting a TV you're satisfied with (or being satisfied with your tv), and JL is definitely the place to start.

 

[StanleyAV]

Would this new ZT60 be a level above or below the £6000 65VX300 Panasonic?

I remember the Panasonic Z1 was the top of the line model a few years ago, distinct from the rest of the range, and there was a member on here who had a long running dispute that What Hifi got involved with over a warranty claim!

THIS member is/was me and I still have the blasted thing. I concur with StrappedForCash
when he notes the many problems that have plagued Panasonic TVs over the past few years.
Their customer service has left me exasperated and despairing of this company!

"Within specification" is not a good enough excuse, it makes a mockery of their
European warranty such that the clause which promises to repair/replace for an
inherent fault is rarely likely to be honoured.

Yes it can happen, as when What Hifi managed to secure replacements for those with
50hz issues with 2010 Panasonic Plasma TVs. :cheer:

I did foolishly try to engage with their customer services and their legal dept and came off
the worse for it!!

It was not unreasonable of me to expect a replacement TV for the faults this TV has and
the poor customer service I received (8 months with their legal team before a take it or leave
it refund offer).

I was trying to negotiate a settlement, Panasonic UK had different ideas.
They have closed communication with me and left me extremely annoyed!! |(

I know of at least one other Z1 customer (a WHF forum member )with similar problems and after
much wrangling and hair tearing he got a refund : lucky Mr King!! :dance:

I did ask the current editor Simon Lucas to mediate on my behalf. To date nothing positive
has happened. :shifty:

I would caution anyone considering purchase of a ZT60 to think about what could happen
if there are problems with it and your dealer/vendor isn't very understanding.
YOU really don't want to be in this position and rely on the manufacturer's warranty.
£4,000 of headache would take more than a few paracetemol! :silenced:

Maybe this year, this reference TV from Panasonic will not be a lemon and
need not count to one of your 5 a day! ;-) Isn't it a religion to believe a TV
will be problem free? ray:

 

[ellisdj]

Just found this on the review of the 65VT50 - quite interesting and in complete stark opposite contrast to what Gel said earlier in the thread

The Panasonic TX-P65VT50′s best contrast performance is reserved for the [THX Cinema] mode. This mode achieves startlingly deep black levels which measure at an incredibly deep 0.005 cd/m2, combined with whites that reach around 90 cd/m2 (we say “around” because it depends on the average picture level of the content). The only flat-screen HDTVs to better these results are the last KURO plasma televisions produced before Pioneer exited the TV business (not surprisingly, most owners of those displays are unwilling to part with them). Our review of the Pioneer PDP-LX5090 back in 2008 found black levels of 0.003 cd/m2, making the Panasonic TX-P65VT50′s 0.005 cd/m2 a very close match (it will be impossible to see the difference of 0.002 cd/m2 without scrutinising both screens, side by side, in a pitch black room). It’s taken a while for Panasonic to (more or less) match the absolute black depth of Pioneer’s long-gone displays, but they’ve achieved it at the 65″ size – in one of the picture modes. The overall contrast performance is still not as high, though, because the KURO plasmas could produce searingly bright whites as well.

.......
In the [Professional] modes, which do unlock the full range of calibration options, contrast performance takes a hit. Black rises to 0.016 cd/m2, which is still excellent, but is no longer in KURO territory. More worryingly, peak light output is significantly dimmed, with a full 100% white window measuring just 65 cd/m2 after calibration (down from an already dim-ish 70 cd/m2 before

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

There's a storm approaching.......

 

[strapped for cash]

The Panasonic TX-P65VT50′s best contrast performance is reserved for the [THX Cinema] mode. This mode achieves startlingly deep black levels which measure at an incredibly deep 0.005 cd/m2, combined with whites that reach around 90 cd/m2 (we say “around” because it depends on the average picture level of the content).

But there's no mention of what adjustments can be made. Is two-point white balance adjustment possible using the THX preset? Even then, 90 candela-per-square-metre isn't that bright.

In the [Professional] modes, which do unlock the full range of calibration options, contrast performance takes a hit. Black rises to 0.016 cd/m2, which is still excellent, but is no longer in KURO territory. More worryingly, peak light output is significantly dimmed, with a full 100% white window measuring just 65 cd/m2 after calibration (down from an already dim-ish 70 cd/m2 before

It sounds like Panasonic's method of producing deeper blacks each year is simply to place a darker shade of sunglasses in front of the screen. It'd be nice if the AR filter was uniform this year. If not, this could be a £4,000 turkey, with the ST remaining the most sensible buy among Panasonic's plasma range, even for die-hard videophiles.

 

[bigboss]

There's a storm approaching.......

I won't comment on VT50 vs Kuro. It's impossible to reliably judge the difference based on comparisons seen on a computer screen and also not knowing the settings of the TVs being compared.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Just found this on the review of the 65VT50 - quite interesting and in complete stark opposite contrast to what Gel said earlier in the thread

The Panasonic TX-P65VT50′s best contrast performance is reserved for the [THX Cinema] mode. This mode achieves startlingly deep black levels which measure at an incredibly deep 0.005 cd/m2, combined with whites that reach around 90 cd/m2 (we say “around” because it depends on the average picture level of the content). The only flat-screen HDTVs to better these results are the last KURO plasma televisions produced before Pioneer exited the TV business (not surprisingly, most owners of those displays are unwilling to part with them). Our review of the Pioneer PDP-LX5090 back in 2008 found black levels of 0.003 cd/m2, making the Panasonic TX-P65VT50′s 0.005 cd/m2 a very close match (it will be impossible to see the difference of 0.002 cd/m2 without scrutinising both screens, side by side, in a pitch black room). It’s taken a while for Panasonic to (more or less) match the absolute black depth of Pioneer’s long-gone displays, but they’ve achieved it at the 65″ size – in one of the picture modes. The overall contrast performance is still not as high, though, because the KURO plasmas could produce searingly bright whites as well.

.......
In the [Professional] modes, which do unlock the full range of calibration options, contrast performance takes a hit. Black rises to 0.016 cd/m2, which is still excellent, but is no longer in KURO territory. More worryingly, peak light output is significantly dimmed, with a full 100% white window measuring just 65 cd/m2 after calibration (down from an already dim-ish 70 cd/m2 before

Where did you find this rubbish? And I said nothing of the performance of the VT50 65 inch get your facts straight before going throwing the odds!

Everybody knows a smaller screen will give a better black reading, so it is complete rubbish! But hey most people posting on this thread have talked nothing but rubbish!

 

[Deleted member 2457]

There's a storm approaching.......

I won't comment on VT50 vs Kuro. It's impossible to reliably judge the difference based on comparisons seen on a computer screen and also not knowing the settings of the TVs being compared.

More accurate brighter colours on the VT50 like the ZT60 but each to their own!

My personal opinion of the GT50 against the 5090 is that it is swings and roundabouts, normal TV I might give to the Kuro but I would definitely go HD to the Panasonic and ask me which one I would prefer I would say the Panasonic.

 

[strapped for cash]

It sounds like Panasonic's method of producing deeper blacks each year is simply to place a darker shade of sunglasses in front of the screen. It'd be nice if the AR filter was uniform this year. If not, this could be a £4,000 turkey, with the ST remaining the most sensible buy among Panasonic's plasma range, even for die-hard videophiles.

I didn't read this properly (I've never been good at multitasking). I assumed EllisDJ unearthed some data on the ZT60 (this is the ZT60 thread, after all). Disregard my comments above. I'm taking rubbish. (It's probably best that I beat others to the punch in saying "no change there!")

The ZT60 may still be a £4,000 turkey, though we'll have to wait and see. Oops

 

[bigboss]

Gel, you're reminding me of someone who was an aggressive supporter of Panasonic TVs recently!

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Gel, you're reminding me of someone who was an aggressive supporter of Panasonic TVs recently!

Says the aggressive Pioneer fanboy! Who accuses people of saying things they did not!

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Btw BB if you are such an expert when it comes to demos, why are you commenting upon a video clip for a comparison against the VT50? Surely you already know which one was better from your demo experience?

 

[bigboss]

Gel, you're reminding me of someone who was an aggressive supporter of Panasonic TVs recently!

Says the aggressive Pioneer fanboy! Who accuses people of saying things they did not!

Any evidence to support your allegation? Have I ever said that the Pioneer Kuro is better than the newer Panasonics in performance?

What's happened to you gel? I've noticed that since a few weeks, you're getting annoyed at even small things. You've never been like this before.

 

[BenLaw]

It sounds like Panasonic's method of producing deeper blacks each year is simply to place a darker shade of sunglasses in front of the screen. It'd be nice if the AR filter was uniform this year. If not, this could be a £4,000 turkey, with the ST remaining the most sensible buy among Panasonic's plasma range, even for die-hard videophiles.

I didn't read this properly (I've never been good at multitasking). I assumed EllisDJ unearthed some data on the ZT60 (this is the ZT60 thread, after all). Disregard my comments above. I'm taking rubbish. (It's probably best that I beat others to the punch in saying "no change there!")

The ZT60 may still be a £4,000 turkey, though we'll have to wait and see. Oops

Let me be the first to say, no change th..... Oh.

:rofl:

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Gel, you're reminding me of someone who was an aggressive supporter of Panasonic TVs recently!

Btw BB you started that not me, and another member has already backed that up! But hey you think you are always right, even though it is obvious you are not!