Two full UK reviews of the Panasonic TX-P65VT65B plasma

[ellisdj]

Thats spurring me on to get a i1 Display pro to do a 3D cal !!! Its inevitable - just need the funds for the meter

If the errors are as bad as you say then I am in for a real treat mate - as the 3D performance out of the box is still very good, maybe becuase of the screen size and becuase of the 7007. I get no cross talk at all - I would sat 1% of cross talk which is I think excellent and really makes for a good watch

The image needs some work but I have seen the potential. You must be loving your Panny now - the first time I saw a good calibration I was stunned!

Its also good to know I am doing things right - remeber I have had no formal training just used the old brain to work it out

 

[strapped for cash]

While the difference with 2D calibration is notable, the difference with 3D calibration is even more pronounced.

Though warm pushes red, with 3D activated on my VT65 warm still had a heavy blue bias. We concluded that this was deliberate as it would give an impression of punchier whites and therefore a brighter image. Throw the 3D3's heavy blue tint into the mix and the errors are almost at the limit of what can be calibrated out. To give some context, Jules was here for eight-and-a-half hours and more than half of that time was spent on the 3D calibration.

I'd encourage anyone to calibrate 3D, but it's tough going. Using an i1 Display Pro, low end readings fluctuate a lot. (One click can lead to substantial reading shifts below 30 percent.) Jules really had to wrestle with the settings to get things under control; even then the greyscale wasn't perfectly flat.

Above 30 percent greyscale converges perfectly; below 30 percent red is pushed by about five percent. Any effort to compensate for low end errors caused things to fall apart. There was a domino effect with huge errors moving along the chart. Having watched the process, I was in no doubt that this was as good as it was going to get. Jules thought last year's Panasonics were easier to calibrate in 3D, but the 3D3's tint increased the difficulty.

Your results are excellent, though I wonder if the DIY route proves more expensive overall. I'd want to get the meter profiled against a spectro fairly regularly, which means more expense over the cost of a meter and software. Being able to check your results periodically is definitely an advantage, though. I'll spend the next year wondering whether my TV has drifted. There's always something to feel anxious about!

 

[ellisdj]

I think you can be overly anal about the graphs so dont stress to much - if you get minor drift its not the end of the world - you wont never know.

I wouldnt stress about it - even at £200 every 18months 2 years its not expensive if you want to be sure.

The other things when that when you own the metre and software you have time on your hands to keep going back until you crack it.

Also rather than recalibrating the meter - its more a case of throw away and buy new that is the cheaper option and you always get the newest model so thats another worry gone. The new i1 Display pro - uses optics rather than the other sensor so that should stay accurate for longer proiving its kept in the dark as moisture free as possible

I currently have 26 silica gels in the box and around my C3 metre - there is no moisture getting in there lol

What luminance did he use for 3D I am assuming High - I wondered if better results were possible using Medium - and whether the image would have enough pop.

I think its the high setting that kills the black performance

 

[strapped for cash]

Yeah, we settled on High for 3D.

Low and Medium were only producing 4 ftl through the glasses. I'm sure High panel luminance accounts for some of the instability.

I agree that owning a meter means you can go back and improve on your previous results. That said, 2D day and night charts are ruler flat, with all delta errors well below one.

Getting gamma right definitely helps 3D black level performance. Obviously there's a small trade-off compared with 2D, but that's 3D for you. It's never going to look quite as good.

Right, better sign-off now. I've got a load of paperwork to do and a busy evening ahead.

 

[ellisdj]

Thats a good cal - I struggled to get my last attempt ruler flat thorugh 70 and 80 - there was a slight kink that would never be visual but the anal enthusiast in you wants to get that ruler flat.

I didnt know if the set could produce a ruler flat gamma at 2.4 - its easy to set it flat but when you go back and test it moves a bit - maybe a slightly more accurate meter wouldnt do that - but it only does it in the 70-80 for me if it was the metre it would be all along.

Did he give you the results on computer to publish so I can have a look? You can pm me on AVF if thats easier

 

[rocketrazor]

I had to laugh reading this, all the technology in the world and we still need to use Sellotape. Absolutely priceless :rofl:

glad your enjoying your new tv strapped after the issues you had with your last one, and glad the calibration has again received positive feedback. Will have to get that sorted once I've got the tv issue done and dusted.

Yeah, it was strange watching the makeshift 3D calibration solution, but there's really no other way until someone designs a meter with an appropriate fitting, or a detachable clip to hold the glasses in place.

Once you have a TV that's a keeper, I'd argue that calibration is the best way to next spend your money. The VT65 is a fantastic TV. Any issues are very minor indeed. I'm unreasonably fussy. If I'm happy, I'm guessing most people will struggle to complain.

Hope you get sorted soon. Remind me where you're at. (There have been so many GT50 horror stories on here that I've struggled to keep track.)

2nd gt50, this one has vertical banding in the middle of the screen. Already informed retailer not happy but advised would see if goes in run in period. Accept this is unlikely but I was hoping by the time that happens they might stock the gt60.

 

[strapped for cash]

Thats a good cal - I struggled to get my last attempt ruler flat thorugh 70 and 80 - there was a slight kink that would never be visual but the anal enthusiast in you wants to get that ruler flat.

I didnt know if the set could produce a ruler flat gamma at 2.4 - its easy to set it flat but when you go back and test it moves a bit - maybe a slightly more accurate meter wouldnt do that - but it only does it in the 70-80 for me if it was the metre it would be all along.

Did he give you the results on computer to publish so I can have a look? You can pm me on AVF if thats easier

I'll post the charts on this thread some time soon.

In the meantime, here are the numbers for 2.4 gamma, post-calibration.

10%: 2.35

20%: 2.39

30%: 2.39

40%: 2.41

50%: 2.40

60%: 2.42

70%: 2.41

80%: 2.38

90%: 2.42

100%: 0.00

2.4 gamma wasn't quite ruler flat post-calibration (I was really talking about greyscale). 10 percent is 0.5 percent out, but otherwise it's pretty much spot on.

The cal day is most accurate; gamma is flat all the way, as is greyscale. In any case, both look fantastic (I prefer the 2.4 night settings to watch).

 

[strapped for cash]

2nd gt50, this one has vertical banding in the middle of the screen. Already informed retailer not happy but advised would see if goes in run in period. Accept this is unlikely but I was hoping by the time that happens they might stock the gt60.

I think both are unlikely, unfortunately.

I think a refund or VT65 are your only options if you're sticking with John Lewis.

 

[ellisdj]

You have a similar kink at 70 - 80 as me. Its higher contrast, then kinks to lower. Mine was more severe than that but I gave up as it was mega late and it wasnt a cal for keeping

I bet the ZT doesnt do that and it is caused by the reflection of that much light output.

 

[strapped for cash]

I bet the ZT doesnt do that and it is caused by the reflection of that much light output.

You'll have to ask Mr Malarky after he gets his ZT calibrated.

I was never in the market for a ZT; though I'm wondering if I should have pushed the budget and bought the 55" VT. Probably not; 50" seems right in my living room. I'm happy that I've got the best 50" TV available, calibrated to ensure it's performing optimally.

I don't think that minor gamma kink has any influence on viewing. As you know, Panny greyscale readings out of the box look like a hill. I was surprised that, with the TV set to output 2.4, the low end was tracking close to 2.1. The difference is huge and the out of the box picture looks very washed out by comparison.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Just been watching a YouTube video on the fan noise:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=bydAIed7BbE

It don't sound too bad, does make an interesting noise though!

 

[ellisdj]

Non Calibrated I found on my set after you see calibrated were over staurated with colour and itts a flat image it doesnt have depth or the image doesnt have any pop. A lot of the pictures you see people post look flat, its only what your used to seeing.

I dont think that small kink will have any noticeable effect, not enough to worry I know what your like - I was just pointing it out - all the cals I have seen at 2.4 have had slightly lower contrast from about 70 upwardswith a bit of a dip. I really struggled to get the 10 - 30% on the linem when I tried 2.4 - I know now I should have been using the 2.6 gamma setting -- cheers for that

Thats how my cals came out on my kuro until I lowered the contrast to get the best balance. You can run higher contrast on this set and still manipulate the gamma which is grand.

What I did find when I manipulated the 10% to be on the line I got a lot of green dither noise in the blacks - that was no good and I wonder if thats why you have your 10% at 2.35?

 

[strapped for cash]

What I did find when I manipulated the 10% to be on the line I got a lot of green dither noise in the blacks - that was no good and I wonder if thats why you have your 10% at 2.35?

Every VT65 calibration report I've seen involves big adjustments to gamma at the low end.

I honestly can't remember why we decided to leave gamma that way, though we spent a lot of time looking at dither noise up close. That was in the dark, so must have been during the night calibration. (There were no glasses in the way, so it can't have been during the 3D calibration.)

There are no gamma deviations worth noting at all with the day calibration. (0.02 is the biggest inaccuracy at any point.) Again, the out of the box readings look like a hill, tracking at 2.05 at 10 percent. (That's with gamma technically set to 2.4, to achieve 2.2, if that makes sense.

)

 

[strapped for cash]

It don't sound too bad, does make an interesting noise though!

I won't lie, the fan noise is a mild distraction on occasion, but I think the issue has been overplayed.

Would I be happier if there was no fan noise? Of course. But the buzzing was more distracting on all three GT50s I owned and my VT65 hardly buzzes at all. (With a completely white screen displayed I can hear a very slight buzz with the volume low, but that's it.)

 

[Deleted member 2457]

It don't sound too bad, does make an interesting noise though!

I won't lie, the fan noise is a mild distraction on occasion, but I think the issue has been overplayed.

Would I be happier if there was no fan noise? Of course. But the buzzing was more distracting on all three GT50s I owned and my VT65 hardly buzzes at all. (With a completely white screen displayed I can hear a very slight buzz with the volume low, but that's it.)

Yep, it didn't look much of an issue from the clip either. Cheers.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

In the unlikely event that there remains someone who wants to see the VT65, particularly the 65" size, this afternoon I walked into my local John Lewis. Despite what I had been told about four weeks ago, and more than once, the screen size they had on display was not the 50" that they had earlier said, but this size, the 65"! The price is £3,499.Apparently John Lewis are out of stock of the 65" size, and the only shops that will have it on display in the whole of the UK are Edinburgh, Solihull and Southampton. The 65" size will be back in stock at John Lewis at the end of June, I was told when they checked their stock orders. Oh, since this has been mentioned more than once, I was able to go round the back to listen for the fans, but it was a fairly noisy shop and I couldn't hear much - in a quiet domestic setting the 65VT65's fans may be more audible. I did notice how warm my ear was getting that close to the back panel, though!

It was displayed immediately next to a Samsung £2,899 UE60F7000 LED set.As expected, though the VT65 looked bright enough on its own terms, it didn't look as bright as the Samsung LED. But then, I won't be watching any future screen of mine under harsh fluorescent shop lighting.

The pictures on both screens left some room for improvement, not as good as I'm used to seeing on even my much-maligned LG 60PZ950T in the kitchen, but I'm sure that that was due to the rather questionable split multi-feed of BBC1 HD's Pointless that most of the sets in John Lewis were showing. At home, with a single feed, I would expect the quality to be significantly better.

I don't know how this works, but the 65VT65 in John Lewis looked more imposing than my Samsung PS64D8000 in my parlour does, which is only an inch smaller. The 65VT65 is a big set! Further, being right next to the Samsung 60" UE60F7000 in John Lewis really brought home the size difference in the "65VT65 or 60ZT65" debate.The Samsung LED is quite a size itself, but you can immediately see that the 65VT65 is bigger again. Certainly the current consensus on several forums seems to be that the picture of the 60ZT65 is ultimately marginally the best that there is, but the 65VT65 gives you a picture that is very, very nearly as good, with 17.4% more screen area, at a cost of £300 or £400 less.

 

[beater]

I still have banding on the right side of my 55VT50 that i seem to notice more now, have they sorted this out on the VT65, if so i might need to have a chat with Richer Sounds about a exchange.

 

[mr malarky]

In the unlikely event that there remains someone who wants to see the VT65, particularly the 65" size, this afternoon I walked into my local John Lewis. Despite what I had been told about four weeks ago, and more than once, the screen size they had on display was not the 50" that they had earlier said, but this size, the 65"! The price is £3,499.Apparently John Lewis are out of stock of the 65" size, and the only shops that will have it on display in the whole of the UK are Edinburgh, Solihull and Southampton. The 65" size will be back in stock at John Lewis at the end of June, I was told when they checked their stock orders. Oh, since this has been mentioned more than once, I was able to go round the back to listen for the fans, but it was a fairly noisy shop and I couldn't hear much - in a quiet domestic setting the 65VT65's fans may be more audible. I did notice how warm my ear was getting that close to the back panel, though!

It was displayed immediately next to a Samsung £2,899 UE60F7000 LED set.As expected, though the VT65 looked bright enough on its own terms, it didn't look as bright as the Samsung LED. But then, I won't be watching any future screen of mine under harsh fluorescent shop lighting.

The pictures on both screens left some room for improvement, not as good as I'm used to seeing on even my much-maligned LG 60PZ950T in the kitchen, but I'm sure that that was due to the rather questionable split multi-feed of BBC1 HD's Pointless that most of the sets in John Lewis were showing. At home, with a single feed, I would expect the quality to be significantly better.

I don't know how this works, but the 65VT65 in John Lewis looked more imposing than my Samsung PS64D8000 in my parlour does, which is only an inch smaller. The 65VT65 is a big set! Further, being right next to the Samsung 60" UE60F7000 in John Lewis really brought home the size difference in the "65VT65 or 60ZT65" debate.The Samsung LED is quite a size itself, but you can immediately see that the 65VT65 is bigger again. Certainly the current consensus on several forums seems to be that the picture of the 60ZT65 is ultimately marginally the best that there is, but the 65VT65 gives you a picture that is very, very nearly as good, with 17.4% more screen area, at a cost of £300 or £400 less.

With a £500 price difference I think the scales do tip in favour of the VT. I brought my ZT for £3,499 though, which does make it a more finely balanced equation

 

[Son_of_SJ]

With a £500 price difference I think the scales do tip in favour of the VT. I brought my ZT for £3,499 though, which does make it a more finely balanced equation

You did well to get your ZT for that price, which I've not seen since. Agreed, if the ZT were still £3,499 (which is close to what the 65VT65 is now typically listed at) rather than its current £3,799 or £3,899 then it would become quite a delicate judgment in choosing between the two sets.

 

[mr malarky]

With a £500 price difference I think the scales do tip in favour of the VT. I brought my ZT for £3,499 though, which does make it a more finely balanced equation

You did well to get your ZT for that price, which I've not seen since. Agreed, if the ZT were still £3,499 (which is close to what the 65VT65 is now typically listed at) rather than its current £3,799 or £3,899 then it would become quite a delicate judgment in choosing between the two sets.

It was from marks electrical, they had it advertised at that price for about two weeks and then pulled it and re advertised for £3,999 (think they saw what other sites were charging and tealised they'd underpriced it), but I'd already paid a deposit so they honoured the price - bit lucky on that front as I haven't seen then for that price since on any other sites either.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

With a £500 price difference I think the scales do tip in favour of the VT. I brought my ZT for £3,499 though, which does make it a more finely balanced equation

You did well to get your ZT for that price, which I've not seen since. Agreed, if the ZT were still £3,499 (which is close to what the 65VT65 is now typically listed at) rather than its current £3,799 or £3,899 then it would become quite a delicate judgment in choosing between the two sets.

The ZT is £3400 here:

http://www.hylands.tv/Panasonic%2055%20super%20large%20screen.htm

 

[mr malarky]

With a £500 price difference I think the scales do tip in favour of the VT. I brought my ZT for £3,499 though, which does make it a more finely balanced equation

You did well to get your ZT for that price, which I've not seen since. Agreed, if the ZT were still £3,499 (which is close to what the 65VT65 is now typically listed at) rather than its current £3,799 or £3,899 then it would become quite a delicate judgment in choosing between the two sets.

The ZT is £3400 here:

http://www.hylands.tv/Panasonic%2055%20super%20large%20screen.htm

Cheap site, VT's only £3179 on there

 

[Son_of_SJ]

The ZT is £3400 here:

http://www.hylands.tv/Panasonic%2055%20super%20large%20screen.htm

Cheap site, VT's only £3179 on there

Indeed, gel's site seems to be cheap, though I'm not sure how much they would charge for delivery of the set. A six-year guarantee though ....

And Mr Malarky, I'm sure that you will have noticed a pleased customer, Mr Allen's comments on this new site, about your 60ZT60 "Took delivery of a Panasonic 60zt60 yesterday and I am gobsmacked at the quality of the picture, I have in the past owned pioneer kuro, and Panasonic 55vt50 but they were no where near as good as this beast. I would like to thank all your staff for the good quality no nonsense service they gave me. Cant fault your staff, thanks a lot
yours M W Allen"

That makes at least two very happy owners of the 60ZT60!

 

[Deleted member 2457]

The VT65 has 10 per cent off here:

http://www.hispek.com/panasonic/plasma-televisions/panasonic-txp65vt65-free-5-year-warranty-65-neo-plasma-full-hd-3d-smart-viera-television-pd-15146.php

So it is 10 per cent off that price!

 

[mr malarky]

The ZT is £3400 here:

http://www.hylands.tv/Panasonic%2055%20super%20large%20screen.htm

Cheap site, VT's only £3179 on there

Indeed, gel's site seems to be cheap, though I'm not sure how much they would charge for delivery of the set. A six-year guarantee though ....

And Mr Malarky, I'm sure that you will have noticed a pleased customer, Mr Allen's comments on this new site, about your 60ZT60 "Took delivery of a Panasonic 60zt60 yesterday and I am gobsmacked at the quality of the picture, I have in the past owned pioneer kuro, and Panasonic 55vt50 but they were no where near as good as this beast. I would like to thank all your staff for the good quality no nonsense service they gave me. Cant fault your staff, thanks a lot
yours M W Allen"

That makes at least two very happy owners of the 60ZT60!

Yep, did see that, I'm officially no longer a lone nutter!