Panasonic ZT60 (now ZT65)

[ellisdj]

I am trying to stay away from this thread.

http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/panasonic-viera-tx-p50vt50-p13511/test.html

But here you will see what the Panasonic 50VT50 measures in at.

When HomeCinemaChoice done the black ratings the 5090 measured in better than the 6090.

Like I said I am going to take a break.

Hi Gel

Thanks for the link - that is an interesting review - and while more indepth than some it is still weak/vague by comparison to others.

It highlights the VT50 as having 0.03 black level and 90cd/m2 luminance

The LX5090 has 0.0031 black level and 136cd/m2 luminance so the figures go the other way to your arguement.

While the differerence will be negligable in the real world side by side it would show.

If you want where my stats came from

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Pioneer-PDP-LX5090/Calibration.htm

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-p50vt50b-p50vt50-201204101757.htm?page=Calibration

 

[bigboss]

You're only going to have 1 TV in a room, &, when enjoying your favourite film, are you going to rue the 0.0001 cd/m2 difference in black levels or enjoy your film?

There's no point in discussing black levels when it comes to such minuscule differences. You'll never notice in real world, as you'll never watch a film simultaneously on 2 different TVs side by side!

 

[Son_of_SJ]

I agree that a difference of 0.001 in black level matters not at all. However, surely a luminance of 90cd/m2 for the VT50 is significantly less than the 136cd/m2 for the Pioneer 5090, and that luminance difference would be noticeable in real-living-room performance (as it happens, in favour of the Pioneer, but that doesn't mean that I'm an unthinking Pioneer fanboy)?

 

[ellisdj]

of course not - but this is why I am so interested in the ZT as the VT's have not been worth investing in as an exisitng 5090 owner - heres hoping all the strengths none of the weaknesses...

I dont see why anyone would sell their 5090 to get another set unless they desperately wanted 3D or there was something wrong with it.

But again we need to know just how good it really is for its lofty price tag - looking forward to it

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I am trying to stay away from this thread.

http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/panasonic-viera-tx-p50vt50-p13511/test.html

But here you will see what the Panasonic 50VT50 measures in at.

When HomeCinemaChoice done the black ratings the 5090 measured in better than the 6090.

Like I said I am going to take a break.

Hi Gel

Thanks for the link - that is an interesting review - and while more indepth than some it is still weak/vague by comparison to others.

It highlights the VT50 as having 0.03 black level and 90cd/m2 luminance

The LX5090 has 0.0031 black level and 136cd/m2 luminance so the figures go the other way to your arguement.

While the differerence will be negligable in the real world side by side it would show.

If you want where my stats came from

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Pioneer-PDP-LX5090/Calibration.htm

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-p50vt50b-p50vt50-201204101757.htm?page=Calibration

I can't comment upon the VT50 and the screen brightness, but I have heard it is darker than the GT50 and ST50, pretty sure Strapped and BBB have had to turn it down on the GT50, I personally like it bright, on Blu-ray in comparison with the 5090 to me the GT50 looks brighter, I seem to get more of a wow from Blu-rays. They are really similar though, if there is nothing wrong with your Pioneer - definitely keep it.

Cheers

 

[strapped for cash]

I can't comment upon the VT50 and the screen brightness, but I have heard it is darker than the GT50 and ST50, pretty sure Strapped and BBB have had to turn it down on the GT50, I personally like it bright, on Blu-ray in comparison with the 5090 to me the GT50 looks brighter, I seem to get more of a wow from Blu-rays.

This is perhaps why you don't notice the dirty screen effect; for whatever reason, it's less evident on the Normal preset than on any other. If you're using a higher contrast setting, too, this would mask the problem further.

I can't eradicate the dirty screen effect on my GT50, but I can reduce the problem by cranking the contrast up on the Normal preset. Unfortunately the picture looks too bright and unstable to my eyes, so I'm left scrambling for the remote. The higher contrast setting also makes the TV buzz a little more.

I might ask John Lewis when the GT60 will be in stock. Perhaps I can get a refund and borrow a TV from a friend or family member for a month or so. The borrowed TV wouldn't need to be great; just something that'll produce a picture for a few weeks to fill the gap. I say that in the hope that the GT60 will have better screen uniformity, which is dangerous to assume.

 

[BenLaw]

I agree that a difference of 0.001 in black level matters not at all. However, surely a luminance of 90cd/m2 for the VT50 is significantly less than the 136cd/m2 for the Pioneer 5090, and that luminance difference would be noticeable in real-living-room performance (as it happens, in favour of the Pioneer, but that doesn't mean that I'm an unthinking Pioneer fanboy)?

I agree with this. As I think do the manufacturers. This is why they advertise a gazillion to one contrast ratio, rather than the luminance of the blacks.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

I dont see why anyone would sell their 5090 to get another set unless they desperately wanted 3D or there was something wrong with it.

In my case, I would now want Freeview HD, although a separate Freeview HD or Freesat HD box would do the trick, but without the issues of a new television. I now have a twice-bought LG 60PZ950T in the kitchen (the Pioneer 5090 is now in the second bedroom) which although its black level isn't as good as even my 8th generation Kuro (now in the bedroom) is very sharp and detailed, with lovely colours I think, but the main reason was that I wanted a bigger set - my kitchen is 17 feet by 13 feet, with the TV at one end, and the 50" Pioneer was beginning to look a bit small! But I haven't (and don't expect to) sold my 5090!

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I can't comment upon the VT50 and the screen brightness, but I have heard it is darker than the GT50 and ST50, pretty sure Strapped and BBB have had to turn it down on the GT50, I personally like it bright, on Blu-ray in comparison with the 5090 to me the GT50 looks brighter, I seem to get more of a wow from Blu-rays.

This is perhaps why you don't notice the dirty screen effect; for whatever reason, it's less evident on the Normal preset than on any other. If you're using a higher contrast setting, too, this would mask the problem further.

I can't eradicate the dirty screen effect on my GT50, but I can reduce the problem by cranking the contrast up on the Normal preset. Unfortunately the picture looks too bright and unstable to my eyes, so I'm left scrambling for the remote. The higher contrast setting also makes the TV buzz a little more.

I might ask John Lewis when the GT60 will be in stock. Perhaps I can get a refund and borrow a TV from a friend or family member for a month or so. The borrowed TV wouldn't need to be great; just something that'll produce a picture for a few weeks to fill the gap. I say that in the hope that the GT60 will have better screen uniformity, which is dangerous to assume.

You really have got to give another GT50 a chance, I would definitely swap again. That thing with the bright screen and buzzing I thought might be true too but on my third one, it is definitely not. But that did cross my mind too.

One other thing I might do if I was you is change it for the VT50 and see how you get on.

Other than that just keep changing.

 

[micks_address]

the zt60 does look great but unfortunately its doubtful i'd be able to fit one in my house without a major rethink of where all the av gear is.. hopefully if its succesfull this year, panasonic might look at adding a 50" next year.. my 42VT30 is still great though so apart from lacking a little in size i will hold out for a couple of more years

 

[strapped for cash]

I can't comment upon the VT50 and the screen brightness, but I have heard it is darker than the GT50 and ST50, pretty sure Strapped and BBB have had to turn it down on the GT50, I personally like it bright, on Blu-ray in comparison with the 5090 to me the GT50 looks brighter, I seem to get more of a wow from Blu-rays.

This is perhaps why you don't notice the dirty screen effect; for whatever reason, it's less evident on the Normal preset than on any other. If you're using a higher contrast setting, too, this would mask the problem further.

I can't eradicate the dirty screen effect on my GT50, but I can reduce the problem by cranking the contrast up on the Normal preset. Unfortunately the picture looks too bright and unstable to my eyes, so I'm left scrambling for the remote. The higher contrast setting also makes the TV buzz a little more.

I might ask John Lewis when the GT60 will be in stock. Perhaps I can get a refund and borrow a TV from a friend or family member for a month or so. The borrowed TV wouldn't need to be great; just something that'll produce a picture for a few weeks to fill the gap. I say that in the hope that the GT60 will have better screen uniformity, which is dangerous to assume.

You really have got to give another GT50 a chance, I would definitely swap again. That thing with the bright screen and buzzing I thought might be true too but on my third one, it is definitely not. But that did cross my mind too.

One other thing I might do if I was you is change it for the VT50 and see how you get on.

Other than that just keep changing.

Cheers Gel,

I'm not convinced I'd be any better off with another replacement GT50. My first two had very different build dates, though the more time I spend with my current GT50, the more certain I am that the dirty screen effect is exactly the same as on the first set. If John Lewis would let me test replacements in store, until I can find one that's better, it'd probably be worth it; though of course no store would allow this and it would be unreasonable to ask.

I meant to call JL today about options, but didn't get round to it. It's a job for tomorrow...

 

[StanleyAV]

It's no good comparing test results from another source, were they tested under
ideal conditions : mains quality, lighting etc.

IF you deep black lovers really want to excel, consider getting an electrician to install
a dedicated mains spur for your equipment. A filtered power block with isolation e.g.
a Belkin PureAV Isolator can also help with sharpness and black levels.

 

[bigboss]

IF you deep black lovers really want to excel, consider getting an electrician to install
a dedicated mains spur for your equipment. A filtered power block with isolation e.g.
a Belkin PureAV Isolator can also help with sharpness and black levels.

:doh:

 

[Deleted member 2457]

http://www.tps.uk.com/tps/home.html?choice_id=186&tab_id=52

Prices for the new range - quite interesting.

 

[BenLaw]

Why are they calling it the VT65B?

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Why are they calling it the VT65B?

Good question.

 

[strapped for cash]

I'm willing to part with another £400 for a GT60, if John Lewis will let me return the GT50 and the GT60 isn't plagued by uniformity problems.

Think I need to have a chat tomorrow. Might also be worth asking if they'll be stocking ST models this year.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I'm willing to part with another £400 for a GT60, if John Lewis will let me return the GT50 and the GT60 isn't plagued by uniformity problems.

Think I need to have a chat tomorrow. Might also be worth asking if they'll be stocking ST models this year.

Problem is, you won't know if they have problems until you start watching at home. None of the reviews seem to mention the dse on the GT50, so it's unlikely they will on the new models.

 

[strapped for cash]

I agree. Even HDTV Test's David Mackenzie argues that they receive "golden samples" to review. He bought an ST50, which had far more prominent DSE than the 2012 Panasonic plasma TVs they reviewed.

I have a plan, however. If I take along a USB stick with grey slides, I'll be able to check for uneven application of the AR filter by displaying the slides and turning the contrast down. If the GT60 has the same uniformity issues as the GT50, this will show them up clearly. If the GT60 is no better, I won't buy it.

It's not a foolproof plan, but it's the best I can come up with.

HDTV Test's ST50 and GT50 reviews mention DSE, but describe it as a minor problem that's barely worth mentioning (and clearly less of an issue on the review samples than on large numbers of TVs actually sold). Based on what I've read, they'll be keeping a very close eye on this with 2013 plasmas.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I read their reviews, always informative, but I tend to scan through, so missed any mention of DSE.

Sounds like a plan with the grey slides, now all you have to do is ring JL and start the ball rolling.

I'm determined to get to the stage when I don't have to worry too much about IR, then I'll get the settings back to how I want them, with the contrast and brightness up to where they should be.

Hopefully then, I'll be a little more satisfied than I currently am.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UK2YZiQOY1M

 

[strapped for cash]

I'm determined to get to the stage when I don't have to worry too much about IR, then I'll get the settings back to how I want them, with the contrast and brightness up to where they should be.

Hopefully then, I'll be a little more satisfied than I currently am.

I should probably be thankful that I haven't had an issue with IR. I also hope any problems you and others have in this regard will become non issues as the TV ages. I can't see the dirty screen effect lessening over time. That's the deal breaker for me.

The dirty screen effect negates two of the key advantages we look for when buying a plasma television, namely screen uniformity and superior motion handling. I'd take LED/LCD motion blur over the right side of the screen breaking up into lighter and darker stripes every time the camera pans on shots of the sky, grass, water, or any pastel colour. To be honest, I'm quite annoyed about this now and I'm keen to find out what John Lewis can do to help resolve the problem.

I'd also love to know how the two GT50s I've owned compare with others out there. At least then I could determine if I'm being fussier than most or if I got two duffers in rapid succession.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

I agree. Even HDTV Test's David Mackenzie argues that they receive "golden samples" to review. He bought an ST50, which had far more prominent DSE than the 2012 Panasonic plasma TVs they reviewed.

This is actually quite a serious point, to which all the magazines and online reviews should pay more attention. I would want reviews to be conducted on equipment (all equipment, not just TVs) that was representative of what the ordinary punter might buy, rather than on equipment which had been specially selected or tweaked prior to review.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

http://www.tps.uk.com/tps/home.html?choice_id=186&tab_id=52

Prices for the new range - quite interesting.

This slightly counters my immediately previous posting, but if you go to gel's link and click on "Plasma TV" rather than on "2013 Plasma" the prices of the outgoing ST50 and VT50 models are pretty reasonable! If I had the spare cash, I would be thinking very seriously of getting last year's model at a bargain price, rather than paying the 30-40% extra that the replacement 2013 models will cost. Don't know what I would do though if my 2012 Panasonic model turned out to have the dirty screen effect ....

 

[strapped for cash]

http://www.tps.uk.com/tps/home.html?choice_id=186&tab_id=52

Prices for the new range - quite interesting.

This slightly counters my immediately previous posting, but if you go to gel's link and click on "Plasma TV" rather than on "2013 Plasma" the prices of the outgoing ST50 and VT50 models are pretty reasonable! If I had the spare cash, I would be thinking very seriously of getting last year's model at a bargain price, rather than paying the 30-40% extra that the replacement 2013 models will cost. Don't know what I would do though if my 2012 Panasonic model turned out to have the dirty screen effect ....

To me, your last sentence is crucial for two reasons.

1. In my view the dirty screen effect is a more serious problem on 2012 Panasonic plasma TVs than many acknowledge. I was watching the Liverpool game earlier and, throughout the majority of the match, the right hand side of the screen broke up into lighter and darker lines of colour gradation (almost like tiger stripes in pattern). I don't think the effect is subtle on such content.

2. I think a far greater proportion of sets (ST, GT, and VT) is affected than people realise. I've been through a couple and the effect has been identical on both. Others on this thread have same issue, describe feeling underwhelmed, and actually regret selling their old TV. Many on other forums have been through multiple sets only to see each replacement affected.

As a GT50 owner, I'd advise people to think very carefully before buying now. At the very least, be sure you can get a refund without protest and/or swap the TV for a 2013 model if you're not satisfied.