Mains Blocks / Conditioners / Regenerators

[TrevC]

So I guess the bottom line is: if there is no problem, it needn't be fixed. And if there is a problem, find a qualified electrician to sort out what's wrong, and treat accordingly. No one-cure-fits-all!

That's not a mile away from what I said in my first post.

Let me quote what Plinius say in their FAQ, which can't be written off as marketing propaganda:

"Most mains conditioners or filters act in series with the mains and will starve the amplifier and negatively affect the sound. Look for a brand that works in parallel. If you need this treatment to your mains supply, this is a better option for you."

To "starve the amplifier" it would need to have significant series resistance and a considerable amount of power would have to be dissipated as heat. IOW it would overheat and stink. The Tacima is rated at 13A so would be fine.

 

[unknown]

The effects on sound / picture quality per se are entirely imaginary. Don't bother. A mains surge protection socket is a good idea though.

so are you saying that such devices make no difference at all to sound/picture quality ?

 

[MakkaPakka]

Seems pretty clear that's exactly what he's saying...

 

[unknown]

Seems pretty clear that's exactly what he's saying...

so any differences in sound/picture quality detected, good or bad, are completely imagined !

does this apply when a different cd player, amp etc is used or is this view reserved just for mains products ?

 

[CnoEvil]

The effects on sound / picture quality per se are entirely imaginary. Don't bother. A mains surge protection socket is a good idea though.

so are you saying that such devices make no difference at all to sound/picture quality ?

Sugden say different:

“We don’t use mains conditioners but if somebody wants to, they need to make sure it has the correct power rating. Line level equipment such as CD players and pre-amps have very low power consumption but Integrated amps and power amps require a mains conditioner of much higher rating. Using a mains conditioner assumes the equipment needs it. We spend a lot of time designing our power supplies and carefully choosing the rectifiers, transformers and smoothing capacitors. From my experience, most conditioners used on power amplifiers reduce the dynamic range. The best power supply for a system is a separate spur from your fuse box, this might even be less money. I am of the opinion you need to be as direct to the mains as possible with our class A amplifiers.

Experimenting with an isolation transformer is interesting and quite a big one isn’t too expensive to run amplifiers from.

Sorry I can’t offer any definitive technical support but as our mains conditioning experiences have been quite negative we have left it alone.”

...and Gryphon Audio

Should I use powerline conditioners with my Gryphon?

"In our experience, most external powerline conditioners do more harm than good. The sound may be very different, but not necessarily an improvement. Listen very critically and for an extended period of time, before making a final decision about purchasing a conditioner.

Gryphon products incorporate heavily regulated multi-stage power supplies which act as effective mains conditioning filters and will in most cases not be improved by the insertion of an outboard powerline conditioner in the signal path."

 

[unknown]

I tried a Tacima on my system, and as cno says "squashed the dynamics out of the amp"............

Well of course it didn't. What nonsense.

were you there trevc ?

 

[unknown]

I tried a Tacima on my system, and as cno says "squashed the dynamics out of the amp"............

Well of course it didn't. What nonsense.

What a stupid post,

unless you have heard it in my system what on earth qualifies you say such moronic thing..............

An electronics degree.

does this make your hearing superior to others ?

 

[unknown]

I tried a Tacima on my system, and as cno says "squashed the dynamics out of the amp"............

Well of course it didn't. What nonsense.

What a stupid post,

unless you have heard it in my system what on earth qualifies you say such moronic thing..............

An electronics degree.

Purchased off the internet no doubt.............

There was no internet when I got it. No need to get so upset just because you're wrong.

do you not think that technology has progressed since you obtained your degree ?

 

[Sospri]

I tried a Tacima on my system, and as cno says "squashed the dynamics out of the amp"............

Well of course it didn't. What nonsense.

were you there trevc ?

Nope he wasn't, cos I'm fussy who enters Sospri towers.

But of course trev knows best about everything,

Much more knowlege experience than the developers and designers of leading Hi-Fi companies................

 

[MakkaPakka]

Seems pretty clear that's exactly what he's saying...

so any differences in sound/picture quality detected, good or bad, are completely imagined !

does this apply when a different cd player, amp etc is used or is this view reserved just for mains products ?

Well I can't answer for TrevC but the logical conclusion of the point he is making is that the differences must be imagined. People imagine lots of things.

CD players and amps have lots of different components that can all be measured and tested to show they are different from eachother. As far as I'm aware there's nothing to indicate that expensive mains accessories do something different to cheap ones.

If the cables can give a difference in sound or picture then those would be things that seem fairly easy to prove by uploading the resulting audio/video on the internet showing before and after.

 

[unknown]

So what's the theory behind it not making a difference? Not trying to be inflammatory here, but whenever I've seen threads like these, you have the yay and the naysayers, with some of those who feel it makes a difference providing some information (albeit manufacturer's white papers and explanations), but those who say it should make no difference provide nothing except- like yourself in this thread- 'I have an electronics degree.' Just saying 'nope' and 'I have a degree' doesn't hold much credence. I don't hold to understand mains power, I just know what I've heard, and feel that, especially because I've heard positive and negative effects, something must be at play. However, if it's acceptable for those, like yourself, who purport to 'know' there is no difference and ask those who feel there is a difference for evidence, surely it's fair that I ask you about the theory as to why it shouldn't?

The very fact that some hear or see benefits and some hear the opposite is a rather large clue that the differences are imagined by the listener. Let's say we have a conditioner that is good enough for the power involved is installed, and the amplifier supplying full power means the conditioner causes an IR drop in the mains of 2 volts. Will this produce an audible change? Of course not.

You haven't really explained anything there, still.

The only negative effect a conditioner could have is a voltage drop.

OK. So why can't conditioners/power cables etc make a positive contribution to our systems?

How could they?

i've already said that I don't understand mains power, ergo how could I understand why they would make a difference- I have only heard what I consider to be the results. I would have thought that someone so staunchly against it would be quite willing to explain why these things cannot have an effect. At the moment however, that electronics degree is sounding well deserved indeed.

I'm staunchly in favour of honest and accurate information, not against anything. I can see no possible way that a conditioner could improve sound quality per se. That is not saying that it couldn't remove interference that comes down the mains, though in my experience quality equipment will be immune.

define "quality" equipment - hi fi with filters already built in ?

what kit do you have ? (hence deem to be quality)

 

[unknown]

I tried a Tacima on my system, and as cno says "squashed the dynamics out of the amp"............

Well of course it didn't. What nonsense.

were you there trevc ?

Nope he wasn't, cos I'm fussy who enters Sospri towers.

But of course trev knows best about everything,

Much more knowlege experience than the developers and designers of leading Hi-Fi companies................

yes, he has a degree aswell you know !

interested to know what system he has........

 

[Sospri]

I tried a Tacima on my system, and as cno says "squashed the dynamics out of the amp"............

Well of course it didn't. What nonsense.

were you there trevc ?

Nope he wasn't, cos I'm fussy who enters Sospri towers.

But of course trev knows best about everything,

Much more knowlege experience than the developers and designers of leading Hi-Fi companies................

yes, he has a degree aswell you know !

interested to know what system he has........

That's almost an ology yere know innit...................

 

[cheeseboy]

interested to know what system he has........

just out of interest, why does what system he has have any relevance to how electricity and power supplies work?

 

[unknown]

interested to know what system he has........

just out of interest, why does what system he has have any relevance to how electricity and power supplies work?

because trevc claims that "quality" equipment is immune to interference "coming down the mains" .............

as a result, i presume he has chosen "quality" kit that fits this criteria hence i would be interested in exactly what kit he uses......

 

[Covenanter]

I don't think slagging people off adds anything to the debate.

Chris

 

[unknown]

I don't think slagging people off adds anything to the debate.

Chris

i agree - apologies !

but isnt that what trevc was (kind of) doing when sospri commented on the effect of a tacima conditioner on his system,

only for trevc to post "well of course it didnt. what nonsense,"

 

[Sospri]

I don't think slagging people off adds anything to the debate.

Chris

i agree - apologies !

but isnt that what trevc was (kind of) doing when sospri commented on the effect of a tacima conditioner on his system,

only for trevc to post "well of course it didnt. what nonsense,"

This is true, trevc basically called me a liar.

If he can't take it he should not give it out...............................

 

[unknown]

I don't think slagging people off adds anything to the debate.

Chris

i agree - apologies !

but isnt that what trevc was (kind of) doing when sospri commented on the effect of a tacima conditioner on his system,

only for trevc to post "well of course it didnt. what nonsense,"

This is true, trevc basically called me a liar.

If he can't take it he should not give it out...............................

exactly, and once again i have requested what kit does trevc use ?

(someone of his "intelligence" has probably built his own components....)

 

[CnoEvil]

I don't think slagging people off adds anything to the debate.

Chris

Neither does arrogance and condescension......

 

[TrevC]

I don't think slagging people off adds anything to the debate.

Chris

i agree - apologies !

but isnt that what trevc was (kind of) doing when sospri commented on the effect of a tacima conditioner on his system,

only for trevc to post "well of course it didnt. what nonsense,"

This is true, trevc basically called me a liar.

If he can't take it he should not give it out...............................

I was a little blunt. My apologies.

 

[TrevC]

I don't think slagging people off adds anything to the debate.

Chris

Neither does arrogance and condescension......

Sorry, I will try to do better next time. I don't want to upset anyone. Peace?

 

[CnoEvil]

Sorry, I will try to do better next time. I don't want to upset anyone. Peace?

Of course.....no problem.

Until next time!

 

[Neuphonix]

I don't think slagging people off adds anything to the debate.

Chris

Neither does arrogance and condescension......

Sorry, I will try to do better next time. I don't want to upset anyone. Peace?

C'mon Trev, we're only up to 147 posts.

Don't go soft now, this thread got heaps of legs left in it yet!!! :rofl:

 

[CnoEvil]

I don't think slagging people off adds anything to the debate.

Chris

Neither does arrogance and condescension......

Sorry, I will try to do better next time. I don't want to upset anyone. Peace?

C'mon Trev, we're only up to 147 posts.

Don't go soft now, this thread got heaps of legs left in it yet!!! :rofl:

'''Oi, don't be such a Class A Aussie trouble maker!