I spent the day at forum members Electro house yesterday - he kindly took on the challenge of showing me that his system linked up with "cheap cables" could still sound good without the expsensive cables he has sold previously. I set this challenge as part of the heated debate in the interconnects thread. I want to thank him for doing this, it was a very enjoyable day - we listened to music for about 5 hours non stop - so it was a proper session, also a good time for me to get a handle on things - then listen for changes in presentation with changes made
The background of Electro system is important to mention - he has paid proper attention to detail - proper equipment racks, some acoustic treatment, High quality mains conditioning and a full array of boxes e.g. CD transport, DAC, Reclocker, Preamp then indivual mono blocks. So time you plug all that in and the 2 power conditioners and the extra reclocker for Spotify there must be at least 20 connections - unit to unit and from units to power conditoning and from Power conditioning to the wall.
The test was not as extreme as I we were probably hoping for - he is using cheap cables to buy but they are not all freeby standard, its a mix of Russ Andrews, Audioquest and some cheap ones from Mapiln. This doesnt make any difference really overall but I think its important to mention for the overall scenario.
In an extreme test the system would have have been all freeby IEC power cables and connections but I am glad he had power conditoning because I know the quality of the units he is using, even though Electro is not as convinced as me on their benefit. I would much prefer 5 hours of listening with them in the system
I listened for about an hour initally - what did I think.
Once we went from Spotify to CD it was instantly, hugely better, its hard to asses content you dont know and we listened to a lot I didnt know. For the content I took with me there are some excellent points in the presentation - the sound had great scale, good transient clarity - his amps control his speakers so well through dynamic changes they never lose the leading edge of notes which gives the system a nice "bite" to things - very appealing and very good, I like that a lot
The system was very transparent - imaging very nicely beyond the speakers and to the sides and out to the listening position which is excellent to hear, even behind me a bit as well in one song. There was a few things that was not to my taste - I prefer a more focused sound, with more meat on the bones of things, especially vocal in some songs that I knew well that was missing. I also thought I could really hear his room adding sound to the presentation. I am used to a very controlled sound environment - so this is something I notice very quickly. Electro has a different preference to the presentation I will mention that later as thats important.
So after a good hour of listening and enjoyment I asked to swop some cables for purposes of me being there. I only took a couple with me 1 set of RCA Interconnects and 1 Power cable. Electro system is all balanced so it limited the testing option - however fortunately he uses SPDIF cables between the Reclocker and DAC I think - these luckily are the cheapest of the lot being Maplin £10 specials so we was able to change this and really test cheap vs expensive in a good system - ideal really when you think about it
Electro for very good practice turned the whole system off before making any wiring changes - so the initial sound was always a little lacking when it went back on until equlibrium
So after we changed the SPDIF interconnects for mine so 2 links in 20 or more - the sound changed.
Things sounded to me more in focus, but the system had lost some depth to the soundstage - the presentation was no longer going so much beyond the speakers but more in between, but definately what I would say was with more clarity. There was some improvement but something was missing at the same time
Having owned these interconnects and struggling with them initially, it didnt take me long to realise what I had done through ownership as well - they show you the quality of exactly what comes before it in my eyes. So I quickly suggested we change the other cable I brought with me which was a 1.8m Power Cable from the same company, that I have reterminated with a Furutech FI50 (Gold) IEC and Furutech FIUK Plug with Synergisitic Research Red 13 amp fuse.
Electro plugged this into the pre amp as he felt this would have the most effect on the sound - and off we went for about 2 or more hours listening too different content. So thats 3 links changed in 20 or more 15% roughly
Now with this Power cable was plugged in the sound got all its depth back but to me each element of the sound had more body, more focus, the soundstage seemed narrower but bigger at the same time - I would say lowering of the noise floor is a good way to describe it. I think Electro felt it removed some of the acoustic sound - to me it was removing what I thought was the sound of his listening rooms acoustic - i.e. the echoy phasey sound a room puts on the original sound seemed very much cleared up to me. So it wasnt the room that was making the system sound this way as much as I thought it was. It was a pretty stark difference.
The treble for me was much cleaner and less zingy but toned down at the same time - we listened to one live rock track as the test between the cables it had a lot of zingy treble with the Maplins - that seemed to be all gone with the expensive cables, at least I dont remember it / it didnt stand out
You also cant put into words how music engages you as the listener, but we sat there in pretty much silence listening to loads of different content and I was really enjoying everything I was listening to, I wasnt thinking about the testing I was just really enjoying what I was listening to. I remember thinking to myself I would love to change all the cables in this system to the ones I brought with me add a few more acoustic panels and this system would be damn right be amazing - it had all the foundation and potential to do it. The cost of doing that would be in the region of £30k or more so its no small change - huge money.
So after a couple of hours as mentioned we went back to the Maplin Cables and original power cable whatever it was - the first 20 minutes the system was getting back going and I was very much missing the sound we had been listening to - the sound now wasnt as polished or as lush. However I must admit after 20 minutes and different content it started sounded better again as I was adjusting to this sound and we finished by listening to Dire Straights Brothers in arms off a 20th Anniversary CD edition which is a hybrid SACD. I am pretty sure it was only normal CD we was listening to but it sounded huge, clean, and pretty epic and was a wonderful way to finish a truly excllent listening session.
I will admit now I can see why blind tests dont prove things - not because I couldnt hear difference, but because when the content is unknown you dont always know what your listening to and that can be confusing on its own. Also we wasnt hard testing it was a listening session. There was a big gap between the changes. We didnt do much A/B testing i.e listening to the same track over and over trying to highlight differnces. To be honest I wouldnt want to pull Electro system about that much, certainly not in fact and I dont think we really needed to.
I think the differences were proved to me enough in what we did, just in the overall presentation qualities of the extended sessions with both sets of cables in. I remember Electro saying to me after we changed the SPDIF to the expensive ones that the sound had lost its depth and I was thinking something similar so we both heard it at the same time, even though it was only me in the hot seat and there was no mention of this before. We hardly spoke to each other much, sign of good sound.
In terms of preference - I am not sure if electro preferred the sound with my cables in, for me it was a lot better and a lot more like what I am used to listening to, maybe thats why I preferred it and he might not have. We get accustomed to what we know - plus he is looking for something different to me. He sees a lot of live music and wants to recreate that - I just want to push the system to its limit of making something sound amazing.
This is not about reviewing Electro excellent system its about did I hear a difference in the cables - considering it was only 3 links in 20 for me it was like listening to a different system with them in and if you changed them all over it would be a completey different sound from the same boxes and speakers and room, I am more convinced of that now than before I went.
Could cheap cables sound good was the other thing at test - Cheap freeby cables no way - still not had that proved to me, the cables Electro is using do sound excellent but I dont class them in the freeby category so it doesnt count I am afraid
I hope when he comes to mine and listens to my system with nearly all the same cables he will see why I said what I have. Nothing I have written is meant as critism to the man or what he owns or what he has setup. I liked it a lot, I would do it a bit different but that is the beauty of the options we have available to us.
The background of Electro system is important to mention - he has paid proper attention to detail - proper equipment racks, some acoustic treatment, High quality mains conditioning and a full array of boxes e.g. CD transport, DAC, Reclocker, Preamp then indivual mono blocks. So time you plug all that in and the 2 power conditioners and the extra reclocker for Spotify there must be at least 20 connections - unit to unit and from units to power conditoning and from Power conditioning to the wall.
The test was not as extreme as I we were probably hoping for - he is using cheap cables to buy but they are not all freeby standard, its a mix of Russ Andrews, Audioquest and some cheap ones from Mapiln. This doesnt make any difference really overall but I think its important to mention for the overall scenario.
In an extreme test the system would have have been all freeby IEC power cables and connections but I am glad he had power conditoning because I know the quality of the units he is using, even though Electro is not as convinced as me on their benefit. I would much prefer 5 hours of listening with them in the system
I listened for about an hour initally - what did I think.
Once we went from Spotify to CD it was instantly, hugely better, its hard to asses content you dont know and we listened to a lot I didnt know. For the content I took with me there are some excellent points in the presentation - the sound had great scale, good transient clarity - his amps control his speakers so well through dynamic changes they never lose the leading edge of notes which gives the system a nice "bite" to things - very appealing and very good, I like that a lot
The system was very transparent - imaging very nicely beyond the speakers and to the sides and out to the listening position which is excellent to hear, even behind me a bit as well in one song. There was a few things that was not to my taste - I prefer a more focused sound, with more meat on the bones of things, especially vocal in some songs that I knew well that was missing. I also thought I could really hear his room adding sound to the presentation. I am used to a very controlled sound environment - so this is something I notice very quickly. Electro has a different preference to the presentation I will mention that later as thats important.
So after a good hour of listening and enjoyment I asked to swop some cables for purposes of me being there. I only took a couple with me 1 set of RCA Interconnects and 1 Power cable. Electro system is all balanced so it limited the testing option - however fortunately he uses SPDIF cables between the Reclocker and DAC I think - these luckily are the cheapest of the lot being Maplin £10 specials so we was able to change this and really test cheap vs expensive in a good system - ideal really when you think about it
Electro for very good practice turned the whole system off before making any wiring changes - so the initial sound was always a little lacking when it went back on until equlibrium
So after we changed the SPDIF interconnects for mine so 2 links in 20 or more - the sound changed.
Things sounded to me more in focus, but the system had lost some depth to the soundstage - the presentation was no longer going so much beyond the speakers but more in between, but definately what I would say was with more clarity. There was some improvement but something was missing at the same time
Having owned these interconnects and struggling with them initially, it didnt take me long to realise what I had done through ownership as well - they show you the quality of exactly what comes before it in my eyes. So I quickly suggested we change the other cable I brought with me which was a 1.8m Power Cable from the same company, that I have reterminated with a Furutech FI50 (Gold) IEC and Furutech FIUK Plug with Synergisitic Research Red 13 amp fuse.
Electro plugged this into the pre amp as he felt this would have the most effect on the sound - and off we went for about 2 or more hours listening too different content. So thats 3 links changed in 20 or more 15% roughly
Now with this Power cable was plugged in the sound got all its depth back but to me each element of the sound had more body, more focus, the soundstage seemed narrower but bigger at the same time - I would say lowering of the noise floor is a good way to describe it. I think Electro felt it removed some of the acoustic sound - to me it was removing what I thought was the sound of his listening rooms acoustic - i.e. the echoy phasey sound a room puts on the original sound seemed very much cleared up to me. So it wasnt the room that was making the system sound this way as much as I thought it was. It was a pretty stark difference.
The treble for me was much cleaner and less zingy but toned down at the same time - we listened to one live rock track as the test between the cables it had a lot of zingy treble with the Maplins - that seemed to be all gone with the expensive cables, at least I dont remember it / it didnt stand out
You also cant put into words how music engages you as the listener, but we sat there in pretty much silence listening to loads of different content and I was really enjoying everything I was listening to, I wasnt thinking about the testing I was just really enjoying what I was listening to. I remember thinking to myself I would love to change all the cables in this system to the ones I brought with me add a few more acoustic panels and this system would be damn right be amazing - it had all the foundation and potential to do it. The cost of doing that would be in the region of £30k or more so its no small change - huge money.
So after a couple of hours as mentioned we went back to the Maplin Cables and original power cable whatever it was - the first 20 minutes the system was getting back going and I was very much missing the sound we had been listening to - the sound now wasnt as polished or as lush. However I must admit after 20 minutes and different content it started sounded better again as I was adjusting to this sound and we finished by listening to Dire Straights Brothers in arms off a 20th Anniversary CD edition which is a hybrid SACD. I am pretty sure it was only normal CD we was listening to but it sounded huge, clean, and pretty epic and was a wonderful way to finish a truly excllent listening session.
I will admit now I can see why blind tests dont prove things - not because I couldnt hear difference, but because when the content is unknown you dont always know what your listening to and that can be confusing on its own. Also we wasnt hard testing it was a listening session. There was a big gap between the changes. We didnt do much A/B testing i.e listening to the same track over and over trying to highlight differnces. To be honest I wouldnt want to pull Electro system about that much, certainly not in fact and I dont think we really needed to.
I think the differences were proved to me enough in what we did, just in the overall presentation qualities of the extended sessions with both sets of cables in. I remember Electro saying to me after we changed the SPDIF to the expensive ones that the sound had lost its depth and I was thinking something similar so we both heard it at the same time, even though it was only me in the hot seat and there was no mention of this before. We hardly spoke to each other much, sign of good sound.
In terms of preference - I am not sure if electro preferred the sound with my cables in, for me it was a lot better and a lot more like what I am used to listening to, maybe thats why I preferred it and he might not have. We get accustomed to what we know - plus he is looking for something different to me. He sees a lot of live music and wants to recreate that - I just want to push the system to its limit of making something sound amazing.
This is not about reviewing Electro excellent system its about did I hear a difference in the cables - considering it was only 3 links in 20 for me it was like listening to a different system with them in and if you changed them all over it would be a completey different sound from the same boxes and speakers and room, I am more convinced of that now than before I went.
Could cheap cables sound good was the other thing at test - Cheap freeby cables no way - still not had that proved to me, the cables Electro is using do sound excellent but I dont class them in the freeby category so it doesnt count I am afraid
I hope when he comes to mine and listens to my system with nearly all the same cables he will see why I said what I have. Nothing I have written is meant as critism to the man or what he owns or what he has setup. I liked it a lot, I would do it a bit different but that is the beauty of the options we have available to us.
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