Wall sockets, surge protectors and mains conditioners - opinions?

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

The civility level is high compared to most forums and opinions are expressed as you would expect in a forum.

Do you mind me asking what other forums (or types of forum) you frequent? I am a member of two car-based ones, one to do with meteorites and one to do with universal remote controls (the last two are only intermittent so you don't think I am any weirder than you already do!) - and barring one particularly repugnant episode on one, I'd say hifi forums are by a long way the most combative - in my experience at least. I'm just glad I never got involved with Ar$ebook or Tw8tter - they look like antechambers to Hell to me.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

Cable threads always go round in circles until it becomes a sh*tfest and then the moderators lock the thread. Never, ever seen a cable thread end well on any forum.

That's what I mean about discussion being stifled. It's a pity.

 

[Jimboo]

Do you mind me asking what other forums (or types of forum) you frequent? I am a member of two car-based ones, one to do with meteorites and one to do with universal remote controls (the last two are only intermittent so you don't think I am any weirder than you already do!) - and barring one particularly repugnant episode on one, I'd say hifi forums are by a long way the most combative - in my experience at least. I'm just glad I never got involved with Ar$ebook or Tw8tter - they look like antechambers to Hell to me.

Oh gawd , music forums are very tetchy you wouldn't enjoy them.
The Brexit and political sites that I admittedly spend less time on now go to the level of actual death threats and re-posting of pics from your Facebook account with the swarm insulting you en masse.
Science is kinda the new religion so snake oil or the bending of physics and massaging or stretching of figures and findings are going to rile many. The whole everyday level of information and advertising is full of fake news and beliefs that seem to permeate everything and everyone continually.
Debate is healthy on here because we often go ooh when we read the blurb for some hifi products and the other side of the hard sell is good to know, even if you think it is rubbish.
If something changes the sound of your system for some it means it works. I want to know what it does and why. Cables super leads etc are rarely given with the components irrespective of the price and are third party improvements that claim to cure everything . It's a bit too good to be true.

 

[TrevC]

Summary.

No difference in performance : Mains stuff, interconnects made of screened wire, digital cables, Russ Andrews.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

That's what I mean about discussion being stifled. It's a pity.

Disagree. Not stifled, challenged.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

I hear a megaphone...

and @Doug, surely the words sh!tfest and locked suggest a thread has gone beyond what's healthy? Maybe it's just semantics.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Cables super leads etc are rarely given with the components irrespective of the price and are third party improvements that claim to cure everything . It's a bit too good to be true.

Agree. Component manufacturers include such things as power cords and interconnects with their products, if they deemed that these cables were sub-standard in any way whatsoever why would they put them in the box in the first place... it's their reputation on the line.

 

[Jimboo]

Monkey you cannot answer a question that asks for your and others views and then expect the same answer across the board can you?
It is healthy to have different views. I don't know what you expect.
You don't have to engage in threads it isn't compulsory.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Doug, surely the words sh!tfest and locked suggest a thread has gone beyond what's healthy? Maybe it's just semantics.

Cable debates always start well but will never conclude in the same manner. The cable believers have their views and the non-believers have their views, there is no middle ground regarding this subject.

I use after-market interconnects and speaker cables. Did I purchase them to hear a difference? No. Could I hear a difference? No. I bought them pure and simply for their construction and visual appeal.

 

[Jimboo]

Agree. Component manufacturers include such things as power cords and interconnects with their products, if they deemed that these cables were sub-standard in any way whatsoever why would they put them in the box in the first place... it's their reputation on the line.

Exactly , considering the various prices of many amps and c.d players etc a proven cable or filter would be included in the cost. Many c.d players of various prices share chips and technology. I am pretty sure that the designers have listened themselves.
I said on an earlier thread that naim and quad advised against conditioners.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

Monkey you cannot answer a question that asks for your and others views and then expect the same answer across the board can you?
It is healthy to have different views. I don't know what you expect.
You don't have to engage in threads it isn't compulsory.

Don't disagree with any of that. I just find it disappointing that some people feel the need to repeatedly say 'that's all rubbish'. I see that as shouting the other side down, rather than debating.

But there is no middle ground as Doug says, and there is no accommodation of others' experiences, because people who disagree are 'deluding themselves'. Again, that rather closes off debate.

I'll accept that my standards for acceptable behaviour are higher than most peoples, so I have to lump that - but my points about lack of respect shown in some quarters seem pretty valid to me.

 

[Deleted member 188516]

Cable debates always start well but will never conclude in the same manner. The cable believers have their views and the non-believers have their views, there is no middle ground regarding this subject.

I use after-market interconnects and speaker cables. Did I purchase them to hear a difference? No. Could I hear a difference? No. I bought them pure and simply for their construction and visual appeal.

may i ask what cables are you using now ?!

 

[Deleted member 188516]

Exactly , considering the various prices of many amps and c.d players etc a proven cable or filter would be included in the cost. Many c.d players of various prices share chips and technology. I am pretty sure that the designers have listened themselves.
I said on an earlier thread that naim and quad advised against conditioners.

but naim sell some very expensive after market mains and now speaker cables !

 

[Deleted member 188516]

Summary.

No difference in performance : Mains stuff, interconnects made of screened wire, digital cables, Russ Andrews.

any views on the russ andrews dde-1 ?!

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

Couldn't help but think of this gem!

View: https://www.youtube.com/embed/ohDB5gbtaEQ

 

[Deleted member 108165]

may i ask what cables are you using now ?!

Same interconnects: Atlas Element Integra. Speaker cables: QED XT40

 

[Deleted member 108165]

but naim sell some very expensive after market mains and now speaker cables !

It's called cashing in on the lucrative bespoke cables market.

 

[myrrhman]

As the OP here, don't want to be pedantic but it wasn't meant to be a cable thread, it was a mains supply thread. I started it because I heard a difference related to how I plugged my amp and DAC into my mains which was unexpected to me. The kettle lead and mains transformer (for the DAC) remained the same.
I'd kind of hoped someone with electrical wiring experience would come on and explain what could be going on, and to be fair there have been some interesting and helpful replies. Has anyone had a separate circuit wired in for your hifi, and if so, what were the benefits?
As a newcomer to this forum, the cable thing seems downright weird - its interesting someone mentioned Brexit because its like the whole Brexit vs Remain thing, really divisive and little attempt to find common ground. Maybe we'll find there's some correlation between cable beliefs and political beliefs, a bit like the tomato ketchup / HP sauce thing - but probably best not to go there...
FWIW I'm an agnostic on all of this, I like to think every improvement I've made to my system has a practical benefit even if I didn't find any sonic benefits (like the Tacima - it gave me 6 sockets and surge protection, and didn't cost £££).

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Couldn't help but think of this gem!

View: https://www.youtube.com/embed/ohDB5gbtaEQ

Truly is a gem, brilliant

 

[Deleted member 108165]

As the OP here, don't want to be pedantic but it wasn't meant to be a cable thread, it was a mains supply thread. I started it because I heard a difference related to how I plugged my amp and DAC into my mains which was unexpected to me. The kettle lead and mains transformer (for the DAC) remained the same.
I'd kind of hoped someone with electrical wiring experience would come on and explain what could be going on, and to be fair there have been some interesting and helpful replies. Has anyone had a separate circuit wired in for your hifi, and if so, what were the benefits?
As a newcomer to this forum, the cable thing seems downright weird - its interesting someone mentioned Brexit because its like the whole Brexit vs Remain thing, really divisive and little attempt to find common ground. Maybe we'll find there's some correlation between cable beliefs and political beliefs, a bit like the tomato ketchup / HP sauce thing - but probably best not to go there...
FWIW I'm an agnostic on all of this, I like to think every improvement I've made to my system has a practical benefit even if I didn't find any sonic benefits (like the Tacima - it gave me 6 sockets and surge protection, and didn't cost £££).

Bah, the masses have now taken control of this thread. Cable threads are like riding a bucking bronco

 

[Jimboo]

but naim sell some very expensive after market mains and now speaker cables !

Yep and what does that tell you ?
Power-Line Lite was developed alongside the new Uniti range and uses the mains cable Naim have trusted in their listening tests for over 15 years.

The real news is in the plug itself that features a high-gloss floating cable retainer as well as a thermoset resin case with floating pins for superior electrical contact and the same decoupling techniques used in the original Power-Line.

If you swap out your existing standard Naim Mains cables for Power-Line Lites then you'll be hearing more of your music than ever before!
So it comes packed with the product now and nothing in the blurb suggests miracles. It is merely aimed at the fiddler's market. The main forum concesus is that they think only dedicated spurs are an improvement.
The speaker cable blurb.
NAC A5 is our multi-strand loudspeaker cable, consisting of two separated 4mm2 conductors. Its design is optimised for use with Naim Audio amplifiers and any loudspeakers by ensuring that its capacitance, inductance and resistance are entirely compatible.

We strongly recommend its use, along with our right-angled, twin loudspeaker plugs, which provide a safe, convenient and very effective connection. Even their plating has been the subject of research and development work.
Packed to the gills with science and reassuring evidence ?
Russ Andrews
Computers and domestic equipment such as your fridge or mobile phone battery charger - and even your Hi-Fi or Home Cinema itself - can put a tremendous amount of noise onto your mains supply. Our mains conditioners are designed to uniquely solve these problems and deliver more music. You don't hear mains noise directly, but you can hear its effect - mains noise adds a grainy 'mush' quality to the sound that hides detail, the sense of air and space, and robs the music of its emotion and impact.

Our range of mains conditioners are all passive devices so do not increase mains impedance and the subsequent reduction in dynamic range this can bring. They are designed to be plugged in close to your system; a spare socket in your mains extension is ideal and nothing needs to be plugged into them for them to work.
Domestos kills 99% of germs you know. Do you feel it's ok to lick the toilet bowl now ?

 

[Deleted member 188516]

Same interconnects: Atlas Element Integra. Speaker cables: QED XT40

thanks for the reply - i was not trying to be funny but was genuinely interested.

 

[Deleted member 188516]

It's called cashing in on the lucrative bespoke cables market.

true !

the cost of the naim speaker cable...

 

[Deleted member 188516]

As the OP here, don't want to be pedantic but it wasn't meant to be a cable thread, it was a mains supply thread. I started it because I heard a difference related to how I plugged my amp and DAC into my mains which was unexpected to me. The kettle lead and mains transformer (for the DAC) remained the same.
I'd kind of hoped someone with electrical wiring experience would come on and explain what could be going on, and to be fair there have been some interesting and helpful replies. Has anyone had a separate circuit wired in for your hifi, and if so, what were the benefits?
As a newcomer to this forum, the cable thing seems downright weird - its interesting someone mentioned Brexit because its like the whole Brexit vs Remain thing, really divisive and little attempt to find common ground. Maybe we'll find there's some correlation between cable beliefs and political beliefs, a bit like the tomato ketchup / HP sauce thing - but probably best not to go there...
FWIW I'm an agnostic on all of this, I like to think every improvement I've made to my system has a practical benefit even if I didn't find any sonic benefits (like the Tacima - it gave me 6 sockets and surge protection, and didn't cost £££).

firstly please dont be put off posting any questions on cables, filters, tweaks and "gizmos" - they are the best threads to read and be part of as far as i'm concerned !

secondly, if you "believe" that replacing the 1m mains cable to your equipment with an aftermarket "upgrade" mains cable makes / made a difference to your system then just imagine the benefits of installing a dedicated mains circuit with the same (low impedance and r.f.i reducing) cable !

here is russ andrews product to consider :-

Russ Andrews - Hi-Fi mains and cable specialist

Leading manufacturer and retailer of Hi-Fi mains cables, mains conditioning products and Kimber Kable interconnects and speaker cable. Est 1986.

www.russandrews.com

and here is russ andrews advised hifi circuit installation :-

Russ Andrews - Hi-Fi mains and cable specialist

Leading manufacturer and retailer of Hi-Fi mains cables, mains conditioning products and Kimber Kable interconnects and speaker cable. Est 1986.

www.russandrews.com

 

[Dom]

I am surprised by the price your expected to pay for Naim speaker cable. It was £300 for 5 meters.