steve_1979 said:
Why not try one?
£15 of your hard earned.
At best, you'll hear a change.
At worst, you have a nice looking mains lead but at least you tried.
Why not try one?
£15 of your hard earned.
At best, you'll hear a change.
At worst, you have a nice looking mains lead but at least you tried.
steve_1979 said:
Agent Provocateur or Wolford 'techflex' will do fine.
BTW my Bialetti Brikka is cordless. *unknw*
SteveR750
Well-known member
steve_1979 said:
I'm not sure I can help you any more. I think you are beyond help. Does your wife know by the way?
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
SteveR750
Well-known member
steve_1979
Well-known member
SteveR750 said:
Does my wife know what?
Although I expect that she probably does not know as she is a none existent fictional wife made up for the sake of a bad forum joke.
SteveR750
Well-known member
steve_1979 said:SteveR750 said:
Does my wife know what?
Although I expect that she probably does not know as she is a none existent fictional wife made up for the sake of a bad forum joke.
Once the imaginary wife appears it's time to buy an ageing product that once held high esteem. We've been expecting you sir.
steve_1979
Well-known member
CnoEvil said:
It's gone too far already. I doubt that even cat photos could save this thread. We're gonna need to pull out all the stops for this one.
SteveR750 said:
No thank you Jeeves; although I'm currently looking for some wire in the blood.
TrevC
Well-known member
super
Well-known member
Like you Trev i find it hard to believe so I asked the question on another forum site where they are strong believers of expensive power cables. Can someone please explain the science and the physics of how a power cable can improve the sound and i got this reply......Caelin Gabriel from Shunyata Research provides a good overview, reproduced below :
Introduction:[/b] “There are a lot of misconceptions about power transmission and power quality that make it difficult for some people to understand why a power cord makes a sonic difference. The first question is – do power cords make any difference at all? There is no sense in talking about theories of operation if we can't agree that there is an audible effect. Most of the thousands of people that use our power cords started out as skeptics and have answered that question for themselves and have found that power cables and power conditioners can have a profound impact on performance. And no - I do not care to debate with people that have not done the simplest of tests about whether power cords work or not. The only cases where a high quality cord does not have significant effects is when it is used with a poor quality power conditioner that acts as a high impedance to instantaneous current flow. “
Misconception #1:[/b]AC Power is like water coming from a large power tank, flowing through several 10s of feet of power hose into a component. This implies that the component is at the end of this system.[/i]
Answer:[/b] “Actually, the component sits between two power conductors: the hot and the neutral. AC power oscillates (alternates) back and forth at a 50-60 Hz rate. So power does not pour into the component at all. The component's power supply is within a complex network of wires and connectors. ALL of the wire and connectors can and do affect the performance of the component's power supply.”
Misconception #2:[/b] AC power can be contaminated just like water in a hose. This implies that once the water is contaminated at some point up stream, that is must be cleansed before it arrives at the audio component.[/i]
Answer:[/b] “As stated in #1, the component is not at the end of the power hose. It is between two power hoses and the current is oscillating back and forth. Further, current is not like water at all. Electrons cannot be contaminated. There are two aspects to power transmission: the electromagnetic wave and the current flow. The current itself cannot be contaminated but the electromagnetic wave can be modulated with other frequencies. We usually call these other frequencies noise or Electromagnetic Interference (EMI). Within the various parts of a power circuit there may be EMI in certain parts that is not present in others. Electromagnetic energy can be transformed or redirected to lessen their effects.
Some power cords use capacitors, inductors, or ferrites in an attempt to control the electromagnetic fields around the audio component. The success of such an approach is completely dependent upon the specific design and the reactance of the power supply of the component to which the power cable is attached.”
Misconception #3:[/b] There is up to a hundred feet of wire in the walls, so the last 6 feet of power cord can't possibly make any difference.[/i]
Answer:[/b] “The power cord is not the last 6 feet, it is the first 6 feet from the perspective of the component. As stated in #1 the local current and electromagnetic effects directly affect the sonic performance of the component.”
Misconception #4:[/b] There is a tremendous amount of electrical interference and EMI coming from outside the home that we need to protect our equipment from. This implies that we need some sort of power conditioner or filter to protect the equipment.[/i]
Answer:[/b] “Most of the EMI that affects the audio quality of a system is generated by the audio components themselves. Electromagnetic waves that traveling through space dissipate in power at the square of the distance from the source. Further, very high frequencies that propagate through the power circuit do not survive for long. Power lines present a high impedance to MHz and GHz signals due to the relatively high inductance of power lines.
A primary source of audible sonic degradation is caused by the power supplies in our audio/video components. Most components use FWBR (full wave bridge rectifier) power supplies that generate an incredible amount of transient noise when the rectifiers switch off. The design of a power cable can significantly affect the reactance of these signals within the power supply. The power cable is effectively part of the primary winding of the power transformer. The transition between the various metals used in a power cable and its connectors can cause electromagnetic reflections and diode-like rectification of the noise impulses as they propagate away from the power supply. If the power cable presents a high impedance to these signals they will be reflected back into the power supply where they will intermodulate, thus increasing the high frequency noise levels of the component. Most power supply filters are ineffective at blocking very high frequency noise components and much of it is passed through to the DC rails. The sonic effects of this include: high background noise levels, blurred or slurred transients and a general lack of clarity and purity of the sound or visual image.”
Misconception #5:[/b] There is some sort of conspiracy among audio designers that keeps them from producing a "proper" power supply that is not affect by power cable quality.[/i]
Answer:[/b] “This concept is like saying that if a speaker where properly designed, you wouldn't need to use a good quality speaker cable. PowerSnakes have been tested with the most modest of mid-fi equipment and the most exotic state of the art components. We have yet to find a component that cannot be improved by replacing the power cord.
As long as power supply design is based upon FWBRs or switching supplies, the power cord will always be significant.”
Misconception #6:[/b] High-end power cords just increase the circuit capacitance acting as a high-frequency shunt[/i]
Answer:[/b] “There are some power cords that ARE designed this way. Some even insert capacitors within the cable to further increase capacitance. This approach has some positives and many negatives including the reactive interference with the way many power supplies are designed.
Capacitance alone cannot account for the differences in a power cord's performance. There are some high-end power cords that are very effective that have virtually immeasurable levels of capacitance. These cables are usually designed around hollow tubes with the conductors inside. The conductors are several inches apart and cannot significantly affect the capacitance of the power circuit.”
Misconception #7:[/b] Power cords are just like speaker cables; always the shorter the cable the better.[/i]
Answer:[/b] “Some speaker cable designers would argue that a speaker cable below a certain length is not better. We will let them address the issue if they desire.
"A speaker cable conducts an audio signal from the power amplifier to the speaker. The distance is quite small, on the order of a couple of feet to several feet. The quality of a speaker cable is determined by how well it can transmit the signal from the amplifier to the speaker without alteration.
"A power cable on the other hand is not transmitting a signal. It is conducting A.C. power and its sonic superiority will be determined by its ability to deliver current (steady-state and instantaneous) and its ability to deal with the EMI effects of the components to which it is attached.
Since a power cord is composed of a hot and neutral wire that the component sits between, a change in the length of the cord will increase the size of the "buffer" around the component. In general, I would not recommend a power cord that is shorter than 3 feet or 1 meter in length. But subtle degrees of audio performance are not the only consideration when putting together an audio system. Esthetics is also important especially when the system is located in a beautiful home. I just point out the performance differences so that people can make an informed decision when determining the optimum length for their cables.
"There is much more that can be discussed about power delivery but for the sake of brevity I'll cut it short at this point. On a personal note I would like to say that I was an audiophile long before I was a manufacturer of audio products. Before Shunyata Research I designed high speed networking devices and can tell you that there is a lot more money to be made in the computer industry. Like many of the manufacturers of high-end audio components, I design my products for myself and for the love of music. If other people like what I have created - great. If after trying our product you prefer another - great. There is a wide diversity of preference and subjective perception among individuals. Thank goodness there is also a wide diversity of manufacturers that create products to serve a variety of tastes.”
Caelin Gabriel
Shunyata Research Inc.
Addendum:[/b]
“Before we produced our first power cord, we did extensive testing of the audible effects of a variety of devices and materials associated with power transmission. We created many jigs and test apparatus that allowed us to test wire types, dielectric materials, connector contacts, dampening materials and a variety of transformers, chokes, coils, ferrites, capacitors, triacs and diacs. After 3 years of testing, we concluded that just about anything and everything that is inserted in or around the electromagnetic field of a power circuit has an audible effect. Some of the effects are quite small and are relatively insignificant. Others are dramatically profound and sometimes surprising in their behavior. Obviously we are not going to "give away the farm" and discuss all of our findings, but there are some very basic observations that I can share with you.
First would be that wire type and size in a power cord is highly overrated. Every wire type (I am talking about the metal itself) has a specific sonic characteristic. Silver, copper, brass, gold and others all "sound" different. The difference in sound is not related to conductivity capacity because we adjusted the sizes during testing to account for this. Each of the metal's inherent "sonics" can be ameliorated by careful adjustment of the other materials used in the construction of the final cable. We have a warehouse full of various prototype cables that never made it to production. Some of these use a relatively small wire size of ~18ga, that sounds surprising full in the bass. Intuitively, you might think that a small wire would sound thin in the bass region. This is not always the case. Conversely, we have some cables with wire as large as 1gauge that sound powerful in the bass but are also flabby and irregular sounding. So, just increasing the wire size is not the easy answer that some might think.
Most of what I have to say here are my "conclusions" based upon observation through trial and error testing. Furthermore, there are no perfect components and there are no perfect parts. Everything is relative and the designer must weigh the sonic value of each part when designing a product. Our philosophy is to create a product that is a faithful musical component as opposed to striving for excellence in any single performance area.
Our tests with coils and chokes indicate that (in general, with exceptions) that any coil or choke that is placed in-line with the power circuit is harmful to dynamics. Many of them will also induce a subtle smearing or blurring of transients. This is naturally dependent upon the power supply design of the unit that the coil is used with. Coils and chokes are necessary in most components and I prefer "single layer wound" types such as the foil designs. Cost of production will always mitigate against the use of these types of coils due to the expense. We definitely do not believe in placing coils or capacitors within a power cable. These devices belong in the component or in a dedicated power conditioner.
Many components use a power inlet IEC that has an integrated "L" or "pi" filter. The quality of these devices varies dramatically. Generally speaking, the more capacitors and inductors that you have in a circuit, the more complex the dynamic interactions will be between the devices. This will also make the component they are used in more reactive and the possibility of negative sonic effects increase. Multiple filter networks can resonate and generate unintended results that have subtle but audible ringing / pinging sounds. Many of these IEC packages were created for office and computer products and are required to pass certification tests for EMI emissions. All I can say is that what is good for a fax machine is not necessarily good for a pre-amplifier.
Shielding can be a two-edged sword. On one hand, it can reduce radiated fields from impacting other components. On the other hand, the shielding may induce re-radiated fields onto the cable or component that it is being used in. Sometimes the cure may be worse than the illness. As always - you must know your materials and tools and apply intelligence with a small dose of intuition to create a world class product. There is no silver bullet and there is no rote formula that works in all cases. There is just hard work, occasional inspiration and lots of testing.”
Caelin Gabriel
Shunyata Research Inc.
Introduction:[/b] “There are a lot of misconceptions about power transmission and power quality that make it difficult for some people to understand why a power cord makes a sonic difference. The first question is – do power cords make any difference at all? There is no sense in talking about theories of operation if we can't agree that there is an audible effect. Most of the thousands of people that use our power cords started out as skeptics and have answered that question for themselves and have found that power cables and power conditioners can have a profound impact on performance. And no - I do not care to debate with people that have not done the simplest of tests about whether power cords work or not. The only cases where a high quality cord does not have significant effects is when it is used with a poor quality power conditioner that acts as a high impedance to instantaneous current flow. “
Misconception #1:[/b]AC Power is like water coming from a large power tank, flowing through several 10s of feet of power hose into a component. This implies that the component is at the end of this system.[/i]
Answer:[/b] “Actually, the component sits between two power conductors: the hot and the neutral. AC power oscillates (alternates) back and forth at a 50-60 Hz rate. So power does not pour into the component at all. The component's power supply is within a complex network of wires and connectors. ALL of the wire and connectors can and do affect the performance of the component's power supply.”
Misconception #2:[/b] AC power can be contaminated just like water in a hose. This implies that once the water is contaminated at some point up stream, that is must be cleansed before it arrives at the audio component.[/i]
Answer:[/b] “As stated in #1, the component is not at the end of the power hose. It is between two power hoses and the current is oscillating back and forth. Further, current is not like water at all. Electrons cannot be contaminated. There are two aspects to power transmission: the electromagnetic wave and the current flow. The current itself cannot be contaminated but the electromagnetic wave can be modulated with other frequencies. We usually call these other frequencies noise or Electromagnetic Interference (EMI). Within the various parts of a power circuit there may be EMI in certain parts that is not present in others. Electromagnetic energy can be transformed or redirected to lessen their effects.
Some power cords use capacitors, inductors, or ferrites in an attempt to control the electromagnetic fields around the audio component. The success of such an approach is completely dependent upon the specific design and the reactance of the power supply of the component to which the power cable is attached.”
Misconception #3:[/b] There is up to a hundred feet of wire in the walls, so the last 6 feet of power cord can't possibly make any difference.[/i]
Answer:[/b] “The power cord is not the last 6 feet, it is the first 6 feet from the perspective of the component. As stated in #1 the local current and electromagnetic effects directly affect the sonic performance of the component.”
Misconception #4:[/b] There is a tremendous amount of electrical interference and EMI coming from outside the home that we need to protect our equipment from. This implies that we need some sort of power conditioner or filter to protect the equipment.[/i]
Answer:[/b] “Most of the EMI that affects the audio quality of a system is generated by the audio components themselves. Electromagnetic waves that traveling through space dissipate in power at the square of the distance from the source. Further, very high frequencies that propagate through the power circuit do not survive for long. Power lines present a high impedance to MHz and GHz signals due to the relatively high inductance of power lines.
A primary source of audible sonic degradation is caused by the power supplies in our audio/video components. Most components use FWBR (full wave bridge rectifier) power supplies that generate an incredible amount of transient noise when the rectifiers switch off. The design of a power cable can significantly affect the reactance of these signals within the power supply. The power cable is effectively part of the primary winding of the power transformer. The transition between the various metals used in a power cable and its connectors can cause electromagnetic reflections and diode-like rectification of the noise impulses as they propagate away from the power supply. If the power cable presents a high impedance to these signals they will be reflected back into the power supply where they will intermodulate, thus increasing the high frequency noise levels of the component. Most power supply filters are ineffective at blocking very high frequency noise components and much of it is passed through to the DC rails. The sonic effects of this include: high background noise levels, blurred or slurred transients and a general lack of clarity and purity of the sound or visual image.”
Misconception #5:[/b] There is some sort of conspiracy among audio designers that keeps them from producing a "proper" power supply that is not affect by power cable quality.[/i]
Answer:[/b] “This concept is like saying that if a speaker where properly designed, you wouldn't need to use a good quality speaker cable. PowerSnakes have been tested with the most modest of mid-fi equipment and the most exotic state of the art components. We have yet to find a component that cannot be improved by replacing the power cord.
As long as power supply design is based upon FWBRs or switching supplies, the power cord will always be significant.”
Misconception #6:[/b] High-end power cords just increase the circuit capacitance acting as a high-frequency shunt[/i]
Answer:[/b] “There are some power cords that ARE designed this way. Some even insert capacitors within the cable to further increase capacitance. This approach has some positives and many negatives including the reactive interference with the way many power supplies are designed.
Capacitance alone cannot account for the differences in a power cord's performance. There are some high-end power cords that are very effective that have virtually immeasurable levels of capacitance. These cables are usually designed around hollow tubes with the conductors inside. The conductors are several inches apart and cannot significantly affect the capacitance of the power circuit.”
Misconception #7:[/b] Power cords are just like speaker cables; always the shorter the cable the better.[/i]
Answer:[/b] “Some speaker cable designers would argue that a speaker cable below a certain length is not better. We will let them address the issue if they desire.
"A speaker cable conducts an audio signal from the power amplifier to the speaker. The distance is quite small, on the order of a couple of feet to several feet. The quality of a speaker cable is determined by how well it can transmit the signal from the amplifier to the speaker without alteration.
"A power cable on the other hand is not transmitting a signal. It is conducting A.C. power and its sonic superiority will be determined by its ability to deliver current (steady-state and instantaneous) and its ability to deal with the EMI effects of the components to which it is attached.
Since a power cord is composed of a hot and neutral wire that the component sits between, a change in the length of the cord will increase the size of the "buffer" around the component. In general, I would not recommend a power cord that is shorter than 3 feet or 1 meter in length. But subtle degrees of audio performance are not the only consideration when putting together an audio system. Esthetics is also important especially when the system is located in a beautiful home. I just point out the performance differences so that people can make an informed decision when determining the optimum length for their cables.
"There is much more that can be discussed about power delivery but for the sake of brevity I'll cut it short at this point. On a personal note I would like to say that I was an audiophile long before I was a manufacturer of audio products. Before Shunyata Research I designed high speed networking devices and can tell you that there is a lot more money to be made in the computer industry. Like many of the manufacturers of high-end audio components, I design my products for myself and for the love of music. If other people like what I have created - great. If after trying our product you prefer another - great. There is a wide diversity of preference and subjective perception among individuals. Thank goodness there is also a wide diversity of manufacturers that create products to serve a variety of tastes.”
Caelin Gabriel
Shunyata Research Inc.
Addendum:[/b]
“Before we produced our first power cord, we did extensive testing of the audible effects of a variety of devices and materials associated with power transmission. We created many jigs and test apparatus that allowed us to test wire types, dielectric materials, connector contacts, dampening materials and a variety of transformers, chokes, coils, ferrites, capacitors, triacs and diacs. After 3 years of testing, we concluded that just about anything and everything that is inserted in or around the electromagnetic field of a power circuit has an audible effect. Some of the effects are quite small and are relatively insignificant. Others are dramatically profound and sometimes surprising in their behavior. Obviously we are not going to "give away the farm" and discuss all of our findings, but there are some very basic observations that I can share with you.
First would be that wire type and size in a power cord is highly overrated. Every wire type (I am talking about the metal itself) has a specific sonic characteristic. Silver, copper, brass, gold and others all "sound" different. The difference in sound is not related to conductivity capacity because we adjusted the sizes during testing to account for this. Each of the metal's inherent "sonics" can be ameliorated by careful adjustment of the other materials used in the construction of the final cable. We have a warehouse full of various prototype cables that never made it to production. Some of these use a relatively small wire size of ~18ga, that sounds surprising full in the bass. Intuitively, you might think that a small wire would sound thin in the bass region. This is not always the case. Conversely, we have some cables with wire as large as 1gauge that sound powerful in the bass but are also flabby and irregular sounding. So, just increasing the wire size is not the easy answer that some might think.
Most of what I have to say here are my "conclusions" based upon observation through trial and error testing. Furthermore, there are no perfect components and there are no perfect parts. Everything is relative and the designer must weigh the sonic value of each part when designing a product. Our philosophy is to create a product that is a faithful musical component as opposed to striving for excellence in any single performance area.
Our tests with coils and chokes indicate that (in general, with exceptions) that any coil or choke that is placed in-line with the power circuit is harmful to dynamics. Many of them will also induce a subtle smearing or blurring of transients. This is naturally dependent upon the power supply design of the unit that the coil is used with. Coils and chokes are necessary in most components and I prefer "single layer wound" types such as the foil designs. Cost of production will always mitigate against the use of these types of coils due to the expense. We definitely do not believe in placing coils or capacitors within a power cable. These devices belong in the component or in a dedicated power conditioner.
Many components use a power inlet IEC that has an integrated "L" or "pi" filter. The quality of these devices varies dramatically. Generally speaking, the more capacitors and inductors that you have in a circuit, the more complex the dynamic interactions will be between the devices. This will also make the component they are used in more reactive and the possibility of negative sonic effects increase. Multiple filter networks can resonate and generate unintended results that have subtle but audible ringing / pinging sounds. Many of these IEC packages were created for office and computer products and are required to pass certification tests for EMI emissions. All I can say is that what is good for a fax machine is not necessarily good for a pre-amplifier.
Shielding can be a two-edged sword. On one hand, it can reduce radiated fields from impacting other components. On the other hand, the shielding may induce re-radiated fields onto the cable or component that it is being used in. Sometimes the cure may be worse than the illness. As always - you must know your materials and tools and apply intelligence with a small dose of intuition to create a world class product. There is no silver bullet and there is no rote formula that works in all cases. There is just hard work, occasional inspiration and lots of testing.”
Caelin Gabriel
Shunyata Research Inc.
TrevC
Well-known member
Gazzip
Well-known member
Now I am not a cable skeptic. I am more agnostic than atheist.
However I have read that Caelin Gabriel interview before and at the risk of actually agreeing with TrevC I have to say it appears to be complete and utter nonsense. If your mains lead is too short it may not provide enough of a buffer???! What?! Cables don't buffer.
Also note that the tone of the interview is all about disproving urban myths, not about proving the science of his products. Large pinch of salt required I think.
However I have read that Caelin Gabriel interview before and at the risk of actually agreeing with TrevC I have to say it appears to be complete and utter nonsense. If your mains lead is too short it may not provide enough of a buffer???! What?! Cables don't buffer.
Also note that the tone of the interview is all about disproving urban myths, not about proving the science of his products. Large pinch of salt required I think.
Of all the rediculous pseudo scientific nonsense that is to be found here and wlswhere this one has to take first prize. Wonderfully contradictive. Woefully innaccurate. Pure genius (aka rubbish).
Firstly, let me support TrevC. The man talks sense, and on a forum where the majority don't have much technical understanding, it would be foolish to dismiss the comments of someone like TrevC who clearly does.
Secondly, as someone who has designed studio audio equipment for a living (albeit some time ago), I am afraid the comments on this thread about mains cables making an audible difference are laughable.
As long as the cables are of adequate thickness, and have appropriate insulation, any mains cable will do, and will be indistinguishable from any other adequate cable.
A little googling on how smoothed DC power supplies work will make it clear.
Secondly, as someone who has designed studio audio equipment for a living (albeit some time ago), I am afraid the comments on this thread about mains cables making an audible difference are laughable.
As long as the cables are of adequate thickness, and have appropriate insulation, any mains cable will do, and will be indistinguishable from any other adequate cable.
A little googling on how smoothed DC power supplies work will make it clear.
MeanandGreen
Well-known member
I'm with TrevC and andyjim, there really is some clap trap out there about audio accessories. Anyone with any basic level of understanding should realise this.
Spending money on fancy looking mains leads is fine if it floats your boat. If you are aware of what it can and can't do but like the looks/jewlery great. A mains lead doesn't sound like anything.
Spending money on fancy looking mains leads is fine if it floats your boat. If you are aware of what it can and can't do but like the looks/jewlery great. A mains lead doesn't sound like anything.
Lol..... Didn't want to get involved, but.....
Pretty long post that, but the originator trys to explain his case.
So many different technologies go in to the various cables.....why?
Everyone designed to do the samething.
Does anyone of you try to address what's said?
No......
Only conclusion if you have a spare 50quid in your pocket try an 'upgrade' see how you fair and let your findings be known.
Pretty long post that, but the originator trys to explain his case.
So many different technologies go in to the various cables.....why?
Everyone designed to do the samething.
Does anyone of you try to address what's said?
No......
Only conclusion if you have a spare 50quid in your pocket try an 'upgrade' see how you fair and let your findings be known.
TrevC
Well-known member
Thompsonuxb said:
You fair? Sounds like fun.
It doesn't matter what a mains cable is made of, as long as it has a low resistance and connects the mains properly.
Gazzip
Well-known member
I would quite like to try a very high end mains cable or two in my system, just to hear it for myself and make up my own mind. That is what I have done with the rest of my cable "loom". That said I have never noticed any difference from a mains cable in the past.
I have been to the dizzying heights of a full Nordost Frey cable setup costing nearly ten thousand pounds and then back down to where I am today which is just a few hundred pounds worth. My current cable setup is :-
Clearer Audio SPDIF, £295 - Network Player to DAC/CD Player
Van Damme tourgrade balanced 1.5m, £11 - DAC/CD player to pre-amp
Van Damme tourgrade balanced 10.0m, £50 - pre-amp to power amps
Tellurium Q Black 1.5m, £150 - power amps to speakers
My experience has been mixed. I have noticed very small audible differences between digital cables, and much greater audible differences between speaker cables. The rest I am however still to be convinced on. I was previously using Van Damme Black speaker cables at about £4/m and the audible difference between that and the Tellurium cable was significant.
Maybe I am a mug and imagining the whole thing, but for a not too significant outlay my system today sounds exactly how I want it to which is what really matters right?
I have been to the dizzying heights of a full Nordost Frey cable setup costing nearly ten thousand pounds and then back down to where I am today which is just a few hundred pounds worth. My current cable setup is :-
Clearer Audio SPDIF, £295 - Network Player to DAC/CD Player
Van Damme tourgrade balanced 1.5m, £11 - DAC/CD player to pre-amp
Van Damme tourgrade balanced 10.0m, £50 - pre-amp to power amps
Tellurium Q Black 1.5m, £150 - power amps to speakers
My experience has been mixed. I have noticed very small audible differences between digital cables, and much greater audible differences between speaker cables. The rest I am however still to be convinced on. I was previously using Van Damme Black speaker cables at about £4/m and the audible difference between that and the Tellurium cable was significant.
Maybe I am a mug and imagining the whole thing, but for a not too significant outlay my system today sounds exactly how I want it to which is what really matters right?
Gazzip
Well-known member
Gazzip
Well-known member
davidvann said:
Hi David,
They sounded very, very bright in my system which was great for female vocals and acoustic material but not so good for the eclectic mix of music type and genre that I listen to. My rule of thumb for most things hifi is that if I start reaching for the same CD's over and over again, and I am suddenly ignoring vast sections of my collection that were previously loved, then something is not right with my setup. This is what happened when I went Nordost.
To be fair I don't think that the Frey range were ever thought of as the best that Nordost produce. If I am going to be totally honest I went for Frey based upon a "bargain" 10m Frey balanced interconect, and built the rest around that. I nearly always buy second hand and 10m is my longest run you see so that limits me in terms of ranges and manufacturers. It was a stupid mistake that I persevered with and still regret to this day. So much money wasted.....
@thompsonuxb. The reason no one has bothered to give counter argument to that long post is because it makes no reasoned sense. The web site is also full of pseudo science which makes no sense. Its fun to look at magic-stones type.spoof websites. Very convincing poppycock.
At any level his rantings could be critisised but I certainly could not be bothered. Spend money if you wish but dont believe everything you read on the Internet
At any level his rantings could be critisised but I certainly could not be bothered. Spend money if you wish but dont believe everything you read on the Internet
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