cables and the foo fighters brigade ...

[Richard Allen]

FFS, how boring is this. Diamonds have had value for thousands of years because they are rare and they are beautiful to look at. Look at the numbers, in fact go and dig some up if it's so easy. Want to start on rubies, emeralds, pearls anyone? I think half you lot just come here for a row.

This just about sums up the forum Paul. How the hell did we get from cables ( risky subject Drummerman! ) to diamonds etc???. What's it got to do with the thread??. Nothing, as usual.

Really can't be bothered with this stuff anymore. Waste of my time. I'm outta here!. C ya. :wave:

 

[Vladimir]

FFS, how boring is this. Diamonds have had value for thousands of years because they are rare and they are beautiful to look at. Look at the numbers, in fact go and dig some up if it's so easy. Want to start on rubies, emeralds, pearls anyone? I think half you lot just come here for a row.

This just about sums up the forum Paul. How the hell did we get from cables ( risky subject Drummerman! ) to diamonds etc???. What's it got to do with the thread??. Nothing, as usual.

Really can't be bothered with this stuff anymore. Waste of my time. I'm outta here!. C ya. :wave:

Hit and run eh?

 

[Alec]

FFS, how boring is this. Diamonds have had value for thousands of years because they are rare and they are beautiful to look at. Look at the numbers, in fact go and dig some up if it's so easy. Want to start on rubies, emeralds, pearls anyone? I think half you lot just come here for a row.

This just about sums up the forum Paul. How the hell did we get from cables ( risky subject Drummerman! ) to diamonds etc???. What's it got to do with the thread??. Nothing, as usual.

Really can't be bothered with this stuff anymore. Waste of my time. I'm outta here!. C ya. :wave:

Hit and run eh?

You probably say that in jest but people can forget that the "hit and run" is sometimes a perfectly legitmate response to the nonsense.

 

[pauln]

FFS, how boring is this. Diamonds have had value for thousands of years because they are rare and they are beautiful to look at. Look at the numbers, in fact go and dig some up if it's so easy. Want to start on rubies, emeralds, pearls anyone? I think half you lot just come here for a row.

This just about sums up the forum Paul. How the hell did we get from cables ( risky subject Drummerman! ) to diamonds etc???. What's it got to do with the thread??. Nothing, as usual.

Really can't be bothered with this stuff anymore. Waste of my time. I'm outta here!. C ya. :wave:

Hit and run eh?

Well, my fault really; someone brought up diamonds as an analogy and I questioned his statement and... it went on from there. Sorry.

 

[pauln]

Oh well then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

It's true. I was once offered a job by De Beers (which I turned down), and I found out an awful lot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Beers

EDIT - actually it was their rough diamond arm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_Trading_Company

Pot kettle black?

And I didn't mention my (30 years ago) professional interest until the discussion was as good as over because I have no claim whatsoever to be an authority on the subject, I only mentioned it when I did by way of some explanation for my interest.

Sorry for another OT interjection, it won't happen again until the next time.

 

[Alec]

Oh well then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

It's true. I was once offered a job by De Beers (which I turned down), and I found out an awful lot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Beers

EDIT - actually it was their rough diamond arm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_Trading_Company

Pot kettle black?

And I didn't mention my (30 years ago) professional interest until the discussion was as good as over because I have no claim whatsoever to be an authority on the subject, I only mentioned it when I did by way of some explanation for my interest.

Sorry for another OT interjection, it won't happen again until the next time.

No one cares, gents. The interest rate is in the minus figures.

 

[Jota180]

Look folks. The bottom line is this, when testing if accessory A makes a difference to accessory B, the proper way to conduct this test is to get someone else to change the item over and over again while you sit and try to detect a difference but it's really important that you don't know which is connected at any time. You should repeat this over and over. Then check if you repeatedly made the call or not.

The danger in not doing this is to open your conclusion to things like bias and placebo.

If the brightest people realise this maybe the rest of us should sit up and pay attention. All scientific testing is done this way and it's done this way for the reasons I gave.

This is not to say cable A will not sound different to cable B but doing the tests blinded removes the risk of you having already subconsciously convinced yourself.

 

[Alec]

If the brightest people realise this maybe the rest of us should sit up and pay attention.

And many of the less bright.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Uncle CnE

Of course i see the merit in decent cables as according to you i sell decent stuff

Or did you say this because it suits - for show (not showing off) again :shifty:

Anyway, with your 40 years experience you should look at selling cables

Given your enthusiasm and energy you should make a mint and laugh all the way to the bank

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

You really don't have to follow me round the forum trying to wind me up. Contrary to what you may believe, I'm on the side of the small independant dealer.

I admire those who can hold their own in the current economic climate, where access to the internet makes it all too easy to push a button and pocket a saving. This however means that the essential backup, advise and ability to dem, are sacrificed....which in turn leads to the amount of discontented members posting threads on here, looking for help.

The odd disagreement and slagging is simply that, and not an indication that I have a problem with you or your business.

Now if you don't believe that, I'm not sure that there is anything else I can say.

Hi CnE

Relax :beer: and i truly appreciate what your kind words

Just like my Dad who i love and miss dearly (his picture taken at the age of 14 is in my avatar - http://atcforums.co.uk/photos/001.jpg) i can see good people

All the best

Rick.

 

[Vladimir]

Rick, you need to close Directory Indexing on your hosting. I can see your TW Steel watch.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

A brief test:

I've just listed to the Grieg Piano Concerto twice, once with Chord Chameleon (5* from WHiFi) and once with free Marantz interconnects. I don't claim this is a scientific test and I'm not going to repeat it as it requires crawling on the floor and I have a bad back. However I can say that I could hear no difference at all.

Must be expectation bias!

Chris

Oh..... missed it.

But quick one, Covenanter out of curiosity did you swap back to your other cables or leave the marantz stock cables in place?

and if you did swap back why?

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi CnE

Relax :beer: and i truly appreciate what your kind words

Just like my Dad who i love and miss dearly (his picture taken at the age of 14 is in my avatar - http://atcforums.co.uk/photos/001.jpg) i can see good people

All the best

Rick.

Thank you for allowing me access to this photo....links to the past are precious.

I have lost both parents (mother under tragic circumstances)....not easy, but happy memories.

EDIT. The 3 Monkeys in my Avotar (Cnoevil in front), were given to my Mum when she was a child.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi CnE

I am truly sorry to hear of your loss. Yes, it is not easy and the last eighteen months have been difficult.

Thanks for explaining your Avatar.

All the best

Rick.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Vladimir

The watch is not mine. I haven't owned a watch for eight years.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi CnE

I am truly sorry to hear of your loss. Yes, it is not easy and the last eighteen months have been difficult.

Thanks for explaining your Avatar.

All the best

Rick.

Greater harmony is achieved through better understanding

Thank you

Cno

 

[Vladimir]

Hi Vladimir

The watch is not mine. I haven't owned a watch for eight years.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Regardless, it is a good safety feature to turn off Directory Indexing in your hosting and saves you internet traffic. Just trying to help.

 

[Covenanter]

A brief test:

I've just listed to the Grieg Piano Concerto twice, once with Chord Chameleon (5* from WHiFi) and once with free Marantz interconnects. I don't claim this is a scientific test and I'm not going to repeat it as it requires crawling on the floor and I have a bad back. However I can say that I could hear no difference at all.

Must be expectation bias!

Chris

Oh..... missed it.

But quick one, Covenanter out of curiosity did you swap back to your other cables or leave the marantz stock cables in place?

and if you did swap back why?

I swapped back to the Chord ones because I have still to sell my old kit and wanted to put the Marantz cables in the box.

Chris

 

[radiorog]

So if I was to say that the sun produces all the natural light and heat on earth and subsequently refuse to reconsider that statement you would describe it as an entrenched position, whereas I would call it knowing the facts.

No!

Entrenched positions happen when there are strongly held, differering POV, where both sides claim to have "truth" on their side eg NI ; Israel / Palestine etc and neither side is prepared to make a conciliatory move.

You claim to have a monopoly on "the truth," which I am questioning, based on a lot of experimenting / listening. I don't claim to have the answers, but I like to encourage people to try something similar and see what they think.

Your position is an entirely faith based one. I go with the science.

Trev, I believe your position is actually a faith based one. Faith in your own understanding. There may be some science available to humanity ATM re cables, but it is obviously not complete or exhaustive. Throughout history many scientific understandings have eventually been either updated, or even proven wrong. It happens all the time. Any good scientist knows this. Now I don't know the exact details, but Einstein knew that on some of his theories and mathematics, even though they heralded a new dawn in understanding, that they weren't 100% accurate, and that something wasis missing. No matter what he did, for some of his most important theories, the equations never added up completely. Sure, they worked 99.9999% of the time, but not 100%, and when you looked at the finer details. I believe this is where things like string theory and such comes into it, and is leading the hunt for the higgs particle, and understanding. When this tiny thing is found and understood one day, our understanding of all physics and chemistry could be turned on its head. And so it is with cables. You say the science is there, I say the science is innadquate, because I know what I heard. The cable I was upgrading to cost twice as much, so by the placebo ruling, it can only therefore sound better or equal to the previous cable. It actually sounded worse. Noticeably. It was like one cable was bob Marley, and the other bob Dylan. Sure, they were both called bob, played guitar and sang, but they sounded different.

However, I do agree that some kind of measurents and standardising for cables should be available.

You don't say what type of cables you were listening to. If you are talking speaker cables I have already said they do have a effect on sound quality. Mains cables obviously cannot change anything because they don't carry the signal. The suggestion that we don't have a full understanding of how audio travels along a piece of wire is absurd.

I mentioned the thread earlier I was talking interconnects, but no worries, a lot of posts on here and I can hardly remember what I wrote myself.

But my point was saying that yes, we have an understanding of how things work, but it doesn't mean its the final answer. Things are happening at a much deeper level than we understand. If it wasn't, we would understand everything. Its that simple. So my suggestion is no where near as absurd as yours saying I cannot tell the difference between my two mentioned interconnects. I can tell you I could tell the difference blind 100 times in a row in my old system. And please...no more offers of houses as a wager.