Source first still important, dumbed down hifi, or is there a problem with your system?

[John Duncan]

I've just compared Spotify on my HTC mobile phone to a CD, listening on the same AKG 550 headphones. The phone sounds better.

That explains many things Trev :bounce:

What does it explain?

OK, I'll tell you why it sounds better. The CD player doesn't have bass boost eq.

Distortion ftw!

 

[TrevC]

So in order for Joel to determine whether CD sounds better than Spotify, he needs to find a disk of a known master which was produced at the same pressing plant as the one that Spotify has. Does it have to be pressed on the same day? And people wonder why I can't be EDITEDed with ABX testing. I'm out.

There are large differences in remasters. For example the remaster of Countdown to Ecstasy by Steely Dan is markedly superior to the original CD effort.

 

[Alec]

Having done A-Level maths, to my mind, on the balance of probabilities, from what I have heard, 320kbps is not anywhere near CD. Absolutely fine for everyday listening, but if you are looking at a comparison you can do better.

What does that mean?

 

[chebby]

Buy some buffalo mozzarella from Sainsburys and it will taste lovely. Buy some top notch from Borough Market and you will be shocked at just how good it can be. That doesn't mean to say that the Sainsburys version isn't nice, because it is.

You are going to the wrong supermarket.

Our Waitrose deli counter sells my favourite Gorwydd Caerphilly from Trethowans dairy. It also sells my favourite mature Cheddar made by Quickes.

Both are without peer, in my opinion, and are not supermarket brand substitutes for the real thing. They are the real thing.

 

[John Duncan]

So in order for Joel to determine whether CD sounds better than Spotify, he needs to find a disk of a known master which was produced at the same pressing plant as the one that Spotify has. Does it have to be pressed on the same day? And people wonder why I can't be EDITEDed with ABX testing. I'm out.

There are large differences in remasters. For example the remaster of Countdown to Ecstasy by Steely Dan is markedly superior to the original CD effort.

Why do you think I suggested finding a known master? It's the same pressing plant bit which is making this faintly ridiculous...

 

[Overdose]

So in order for Joel to determine whether CD sounds better than Spotify, he needs to find a disk of a known master which was produced at the same pressing plant as the one that Spotify has. Does it have to be pressed on the same day? And people wonder why I can't be EDITEDed with ABX testing. I'm out.

No, he just needs to listen. He has done so and finds that Spotify comes up wanting over the CD. The only trouble is, he has come to the spurious conclusion that it is the file bit rate that is to blame.

 

[JoelSim]

I've just compared Spotify on my HTC mobile phone to a CD, listening on the same AKG 550 headphones. The phone sounds better.

That explains many things Trev :bounce:

What does it explain?

OK, I'll tell you why it sounds better. The CD player doesn't have bass boost eq.

Does Spotify? I don't have a clue as I have never changed any settings and wouldn't know where to start.

I don't have a loudness button either.

Bah humbug hahaha!

I love these discussions on forums as it's plainly apparant that no matter what you say, there will always be people who disagree. It's a good thing as it's what makes the world go round.

 

[JoelSim]

So in order for Joel to determine whether CD sounds better than Spotify, he needs to find a disk of a known master which was produced at the same pressing plant as the one that Spotify has. Does it have to be pressed on the same day? And people wonder why I can't be EDITEDed with ABX testing. I'm out.

No, he just needs to listen. He has done so and finds that Spotify comes up wanting over the CD. The only trouble is, he has come to the spurious conclusion that it is the file bit rate that is to blame.

Why is it spurious?

2 different computers

Several different tracks of variable genres

3/4 the same kit

Same conclusion on every single occasion.

And of course, when you remove something, it is always going to have an effect isn't it?

All I'm doing is reporting on what I have heard. And every single time I have done it there has been an appreciable difference between a CD and 320kbps. What's more an instant appreciable difference on the basis of a single switch. Not several hours ruminating over tiny margins.

 

[John Duncan]

So in order for Joel to determine whether CD sounds better than Spotify, he needs to find a disk of a known master which was produced at the same pressing plant as the one that Spotify has. Does it have to be pressed on the same day? And people wonder why I can't be EDITEDed with ABX testing. I'm out.

No, he just needs to listen. He has done so and finds that Spotify comes up wanting over the CD. The only trouble is, he has come to the spurious conclusion that it is the file bit rate that is to blame.

Actually I think he just claimed that CD sounded better than Spotify. He made no claims (originally anyway, I can't remember whether he has since) as to what might have caused this.

There are plenty who have jumped in and claimed that it MUST be another master or levels or whatever, without any evidence to make that claim (only that it MUST be because it sounded different).

 

[JoelSim]

Having done A-Level maths, to my mind, on the balance of probabilities, from what I have heard, 320kbps is not anywhere near CD. Absolutely fine for everyday listening, but if you are looking at a comparison you can do better.

What does that mean?

It means that if you do the same thing 10 times and get the same result each time then the likelihood of your findings being accurate is more probable than if you do it once.

An example.

Spain play Wales and they draw 1-1. The probability of the teams being equal ie 50% is a fair bet.

Spain play Wales and beat them 73 times, draw 20 and lose 7. The probability of Spain winning is 73% in their next meeting.

So, to do this Spotify vs CD comparison on one track is not helpful. To do it on 10 suggests a likelihood that something has some substance.

 

[Overdose]

So in order for Joel to determine whether CD sounds better than Spotify, he needs to find a disk of a known master which was produced at the same pressing plant as the one that Spotify has. Does it have to be pressed on the same day? And people wonder why I can't be EDITEDed with ABX testing. I'm out.

No, he just needs to listen. He has done so and finds that Spotify comes up wanting over the CD. The only trouble is, he has come to the spurious conclusion that it is the file bit rate that is to blame.

Why is it spurious?

2 different computers

Several different tracks of variable genres

3/4 the same kit

Same conclusion on every single occasion.

And of course, when you remove something, it is always going to have an effect isn't it?

All I'm doing is reporting on what I have heard. And every single time I have done it there has been an appreciable difference between a CD and 320kbps. What's more an instant appreciable difference on the basis of a single switch. Not several hours ruminating over tiny margins.

Can you not see that you have no consistency in your comparisons?

You have no means to verify the source of the recordings and are most likely comparing different recordings of the same albums.

You do not know for certain that the tracks that you are listening to are even 320Kbps.

You may well have level mismatches.

All of the above indicate that your conclusions are spurious. You have also indicated that you have no interest in trying to accurately compare formats, so there is little merit in your assertions, just as there is little merit in further discussion.

 

[TrevC]

I've just compared Spotify on my HTC mobile phone to a CD, listening on the same AKG 550 headphones. The phone sounds better.

That explains many things Trev :bounce:

What does it explain?

OK, I'll tell you why it sounds better. The CD player doesn't have bass boost eq.

Does Spotify? I don't have a clue as I have never changed any settings and wouldn't know where to start.

I don't have a loudness button either.

Bah humbug hahaha!

I love these discussions on forums as it's plainly apparant that no matter what you say, there will always be people who disagree. It's a good thing as it's what makes the world go round.

Perhaps you should visit Spotify prefs and tick the high quality streaming box.

IMO the K550s lack bass punch and a bit of eq fixes it.

 

[Alec]

Ah, its simpler than I thought. And I'd agree. But what you really mean is Spotify doesn't sound as good as the CD. It seems you are making the claim that John, er, doesn't think you are.

 

[fr0g]

Just a thought. If Joel has not changed any settings, then the stream is at a low bit-rate. You have to change that in the settings.

Also, in the settings, the normalizer is default to ON. This changes the streams to try to achieve equal volume across tracks...

Personally I *think* Spotify sounds just as good as the CD ripped versions played losslessly through the same system. ie, my own CDs ripped to FLAC.

I haven't ABXd that though as it isn't a simple task.

As for the OT. I think a well ripped MP3 to 192 Kbps (VBR) (that bit is important) sounds just as good as the CD so maybe I have cloth ears. Although I doubt it.

 

[John Duncan]

There are three doors, and behind one of them is a car. Behind the other two are goats. What is the probability that you are watching Le Quattro Volte?

 

[Alec]

So I paid for premium but didn't get it as I didn't fiddle with any settings? Good stuff!

 

[BenLaw]

There are three doors, and behind one of them is a car. Behind the other two are goats. What is the probability that you are watching Le Quattro Volte?

Is the car really a truck rolling down a hill?

 

[TrevC]

So I paid for premium but didn't get it as I didn't fiddle with any settings? Good stuff!

Don't worry. You won't be able to hear the difference!!!

 

[John Duncan]

There are three doors, and behind one of them is a car. Behind the other two are goats. What is the probability that you are watching Le Quattro Volte?

Is the car really a truck rolling down a hill?

Not until you open the door.

 

[JoelSim]

So in order for Joel to determine whether CD sounds better than Spotify, he needs to find a disk of a known master which was produced at the same pressing plant as the one that Spotify has. Does it have to be pressed on the same day? And people wonder why I can't be EDITEDed with ABX testing. I'm out.

No, he just needs to listen. He has done so and finds that Spotify comes up wanting over the CD. The only trouble is, he has come to the spurious conclusion that it is the file bit rate that is to blame.

Actually I think he just claimed that CD sounded better than Spotify. He made no claims (originally anyway, I can't remember whether he has since) as to what might have caused this. There are plenty who have jumped in and claimed that it MUST be another master or levels or whatever, without any evidence to make that claim (only that it MUST be because it sounded different).

I haven't JD. Simply that Spotify doesn't sound as good. Probably due to a large proportion of the information being lost when downsizing. Not rocket science really.

 

[JoelSim]

I've just compared Spotify on my HTC mobile phone to a CD, listening on the same AKG 550 headphones. The phone sounds better.

That explains many things Trev :bounce:

What does it explain?

OK, I'll tell you why it sounds better. The CD player doesn't have bass boost eq.

Does Spotify? I don't have a clue as I have never changed any settings and wouldn't know where to start.

I don't have a loudness button either.

Bah humbug hahaha!

I love these discussions on forums as it's plainly apparant that no matter what you say, there will always be people who disagree. It's a good thing as it's what makes the world go round.

Ah that is ticked of course. That makes it 320 doesn't it rather than standard?

Perhaps you should visit Spotify prefs and tick the high quality streaming box.

IMO the K550s lack bass punch and a bit of eq fixes it.

 

[JoelSim]

Buy some buffalo mozzarella from Sainsburys and it will taste lovely. Buy some top notch from Borough Market and you will be shocked at just how good it can be. That doesn't mean to say that the Sainsburys version isn't nice, because it is.

You are going to the wrong supermarket.

Our Waitrose deli counter sells my favourite Gorwydd Caerphilly from Trethowans dairy. It also sells my favourite mature Cheddar made by Quickes.

Both are without peer, in my opinion, and are not supermarket brand substitutes for the real thing. They are the real thing.

Chebby we agree!

 

[chebby]

Not rocket science really.

Cheese, football, rocketry, goats...

 

[JoelSim]

So in order for Joel to determine whether CD sounds better than Spotify, he needs to find a disk of a known master which was produced at the same pressing plant as the one that Spotify has. Does it have to be pressed on the same day? And people wonder why I can't be EDITEDed with ABX testing. I'm out.

There are large differences in remasters. For example the remaster of Countdown to Ecstasy by Steely Dan is markedly superior to the original CD effort.

But the likelihood of that happening every single time, with every single artist is minimal

 

[Overdose]

So in order for Joel to determine whether CD sounds better than Spotify, he needs to find a disk of a known master which was produced at the same pressing plant as the one that Spotify has. Does it have to be pressed on the same day? And people wonder why I can't be EDITEDed with ABX testing. I'm out.

No, he just needs to listen. He has done so and finds that Spotify comes up wanting over the CD. The only trouble is, he has come to the spurious conclusion that it is the file bit rate that is to blame.

Actually I think he just claimed that CD sounded better than Spotify. He made no claims (originally anyway, I can't remember whether he has since) as to what might have caused this. There are plenty who have jumped in and claimed that it MUST be another master or levels or whatever, without any evidence to make that claim (only that it MUST be because it sounded different).

It was his first post the stated 320Kbps was significantly inferior to CD and gave his CD player and Spotify premium as the sources for this comparison.

Also, if no settings were adjusted (as stated), then it is quite possible (as suggested by others) that the volume levels were set for normalisation and a lower bit rate selected than optimum. This will all be in addition to any other level differences and discrepancies between various recordings.