Source first still important, dumbed down hifi, or is there a problem with your system?

[John Duncan]

Too many variables? There was only one variable and that was the source. Everything else was identical, switch directly from one to another, no time lags, switch back, switch again, switch back.

Large differences.

I tend to agree that the methodology seems sound. If not an assurance that a 320k file sounds exactly the same as a 16/44 file (played form the same USB stick), it does offer prima facie evidence that Spotify doesn't sound as good as CD (the opposite conclusion to which is often considered a given by the 'all-methods-of-transport -whether-they-be-disc-or-wire-or-hard-drive-or-wireless-are-the-same-and -320k-sounds-exactly-the-same-as-full-fat-etc' fraternity).

 

[byakuya83]

Joel, see earlier in the thread - the quality of the source, mastering, rip accuracy etc. Many variables.

 

[JoelSim]

I do wonder, especially since the rise of 320 kbps streaming. I mean, I can clearly hear differences between 320 kbps files and CDs, so it's a surprise so many say it doesn't matter and it sounds the same. There's a school of thought that all DACs sound the same, too, which isn't my experience.

Beginning to think the problem is further down the line, and maybe the amp or speakers aren't good enough to reveal the differences. Either that, or we've learnt to accept dumbed down hifi.

I can't hear the differences so to me it doesn't matter.

I hope you don't mind.

No probs, had you heard the direct test yesterday you would have done for sure. Pretty much all of the time these days I listen to Spotify rather than CDs as it's easier and find 320mbps perfectly fine. But, on the tests I have done on several different tracks the difference is night and day.

 

[JoelSim]

Joel, see earlier in the thread - the quality of the source, mastering, rip accuracy etc. Many variables.

Ah ok. I can only go by what I have heard which is a number of different CDs vs Spotify. Each time it has been a substantial difference so you would assume that there is a pattern there, wouldn't you?

 

[davedotco]

There is a huge difference in sound quality between a 320mbps file and a CD. I had Emily from Musical Fidelity round yesterday to demonstrate some new headphones and we tested the difference between CD and Spotify premium.

A/B test: both the Spotify file and the CD go through the DAC on my CDP, Same amp, same volume, same speakers.

Methodology: Fleetwood Mac track started simultaneously on Spotify and CD. Button on the back of the CDP to switch sources.

Result: Spotify, whilst fine sounded incredibly hollow and weedy compared to CD which was warmer, more involving, more detail, more soundstage.

It wasn't even a closely-run thing, there were immediate differences that would be clear to absolutely anyone listening. I've done this on quite a few different albums and the result is always the same.

Congratulations, you and Al are clearly fine examples of Homo superior.

In reality, there are differences between the Ogg Vorbis files on Spotify and accurate rips of exactly the same disc, but they are relatively modest, impossible to pick on some material and usually benign, ie slight losses that do not draw attention to themselves.

The test that you ran is, sadly, meaningless, there are far too many variables in your comparison to be able to conclude anything of consequence.

Too many variables? There was only one variable and that was the source. Everything else was identical, switch directly from one to another, no time lags, switch back, switch again, switch back.

Large differences.

Really....... :?

So a CD transport is the same as a computer (transport) for Spotify?

Real time reading of a CD is the same as streaming over the internet?

SPDIF interface from computer to dac is the same as the i2s interface inside the CD player?

Noise or jitter on the SPDIF not being handled well by the dac?

Those are just the obvious issues, there may be more, accurate volume matching for example, did you measure the output?

All that is before we get to whether the 'recordings' being used are actually identical or not, just for interest find a well known recording that has been issued many times, listen to the sometimes obvious differences between them. There is often no indication that you are listening to discs that are mastered differently but often they are.

These are just a few of the reasons why comparitive testing can be so difficult, isolating the performance aspect that you are trying to compare is pretty difficult. The best test that I have ever done involves ripping a disk to flac and to 320kbs/s mp3 using the same software and, as far as possible the same settings. Differences are pretty small, so small in fact that any test proporting to show up large differences is probably showing up something else entirely.

 

[JoelSim]

There is a huge difference in sound quality between a 320mbps file and a CD. I had Emily from Musical Fidelity round yesterday to demonstrate some new headphones and we tested the difference between CD and Spotify premium.

A/B test: both the Spotify file and the CD go through the DAC on my CDP, Same amp, same volume, same speakers.

Methodology: Fleetwood Mac track started simultaneously on Spotify and CD. Button on the back of the CDP to switch sources.

Result: Spotify, whilst fine sounded incredibly hollow and weedy compared to CD which was warmer, more involving, more detail, more soundstage.

It wasn't even a closely-run thing, there were immediate differences that would be clear to absolutely anyone listening. I've done this on quite a few different albums and the result is always the same.

Congratulations, you and Al are clearly fine examples of Homo superior.

In reality, there are differences between the Ogg Vorbis files on Spotify and accurate rips of exactly the same disc, but they are relatively modest, impossible to pick on some material and usually benign, ie slight losses that do not draw attention to themselves.

The test that you ran is, sadly, meaningless, there are far too many variables in your comparison to be able to conclude anything of consequence.

Too many variables? There was only one variable and that was the source. Everything else was identical, switch directly from one to another, no time lags, switch back, switch again, switch back.

Large differences.

Just like the ones in mains leads and conditioners?

MUCH BIGGER! :rofl:

 

[BigH]

There is a huge difference in sound quality between a 320mbps file and a CD. I had Emily from Musical Fidelity round yesterday to demonstrate some new headphones and we tested the difference between CD and Spotify premium.

A/B test: both the Spotify file and the CD go through the DAC on my CDP, Same amp, same volume, same speakers.

Methodology: Fleetwood Mac track started simultaneously on Spotify and CD. Button on the back of the CDP to switch sources.

Result: Spotify, whilst fine sounded incredibly hollow and weedy compared to CD which was warmer, more involving, more detail, more soundstage.

It wasn't even a closely-run thing, there were immediate differences that would be clear to absolutely anyone listening. I've done this on quite a few different albums and the result is always the same.

Congratulations, you and Al are clearly fine examples of Homo superior.

In reality, there are differences between the Ogg Vorbis files on Spotify and accurate rips of exactly the same disc, but they are relatively modest, impossible to pick on some material and usually benign, ie slight losses that do not draw attention to themselves.

The test that you ran is, sadly, meaningless, there are far too many variables in your comparison to be able to conclude anything of consequence.

Too many variables? There was only one variable and that was the source. Everything else was identical, switch directly from one to another, no time lags, switch back, switch again, switch back.

Large differences.

How are you playing Spotify, is on your computer, Mac, streamer or what, what soundcard do you have, how is it set up, how are you connecting to your CD dac. As you can see there are still variables.

 

[TrevC]

I do wonder, especially since the rise of 320 kbps streaming. I mean, I can clearly hear differences between 320 kbps files and CDs, so it's a surprise so many say it doesn't matter and it sounds the same. There's a school of thought that all DACs sound the same, too, which isn't my experience.

Beginning to think the problem is further down the line, and maybe the amp or speakers aren't good enough to reveal the differences. Either that, or we've learnt to accept dumbed down hifi.

I can't hear the differences so to me it doesn't matter.

I hope you don't mind.

You lack the imagination to hear inaudible differences, as do I.

 

[cheeseboy]

Too many variables? There was only one variable and that was the source. Everything else was identical, switch directly from one to another, no time lags, switch back, switch again, switch back.

Large differences.

A fairer test would have been to rip the track from cd yourself at 320 so you were sure that it was the same track from the same record. Sometimes the tracks on spotify maybe from a different version (mastering/mixing etc)

 

[JoelSim]

There is a huge difference in sound quality between a 320mbps file and a CD. I had Emily from Musical Fidelity round yesterday to demonstrate some new headphones and we tested the difference between CD and Spotify premium.

A/B test: both the Spotify file and the CD go through the DAC on my CDP, Same amp, same volume, same speakers.

Methodology: Fleetwood Mac track started simultaneously on Spotify and CD. Button on the back of the CDP to switch sources.

Result: Spotify, whilst fine sounded incredibly hollow and weedy compared to CD which was warmer, more involving, more detail, more soundstage.

It wasn't even a closely-run thing, there were immediate differences that would be clear to absolutely anyone listening. I've done this on quite a few different albums and the result is always the same.

Congratulations, you and Al are clearly fine examples of Homo superior.

In reality, there are differences between the Ogg Vorbis files on Spotify and accurate rips of exactly the same disc, but they are relatively modest, impossible to pick on some material and usually benign, ie slight losses that do not draw attention to themselves.

The test that you ran is, sadly, meaningless, there are far too many variables in your comparison to be able to conclude anything of consequence.

Too many variables? There was only one variable and that was the source. Everything else was identical, switch directly from one to another, no time lags, switch back, switch again, switch back.

Large differences.

How are you playing Spotify, is on your computer, Mac, streamer or what, what soundcard do you have, how is it set up, how are you connecting to your CD dac. As you can see there are still variables.

Dell Inspiron core i7. Streamed through Airport Express which is linked to the DAC on my CDP via the optical in. Quality cabling from the AE to the CDP.

I've also done the same thing on my MacBook, same results.

As Trev mentioned about cables which can give a 1 or 2% difference, this was more like 20% difference. Night & day.

 

[davedotco]

There is a huge difference in sound quality between a 320mbps file and a CD. I had Emily from Musical Fidelity round yesterday to demonstrate some new headphones and we tested the difference between CD and Spotify premium.

A/B test: both the Spotify file and the CD go through the DAC on my CDP, Same amp, same volume, same speakers.

Methodology: Fleetwood Mac track started simultaneously on Spotify and CD. Button on the back of the CDP to switch sources.

Result: Spotify, whilst fine sounded incredibly hollow and weedy compared to CD which was warmer, more involving, more detail, more soundstage.

It wasn't even a closely-run thing, there were immediate differences that would be clear to absolutely anyone listening. I've done this on quite a few different albums and the result is always the same.

Congratulations, you and Al are clearly fine examples of Homo superior.

In reality, there are differences between the Ogg Vorbis files on Spotify and accurate rips of exactly the same disc, but they are relatively modest, impossible to pick on some material and usually benign, ie slight losses that do not draw attention to themselves.

The test that you ran is, sadly, meaningless, there are far too many variables in your comparison to be able to conclude anything of consequence.

Too many variables? There was only one variable and that was the source. Everything else was identical, switch directly from one to another, no time lags, switch back, switch again, switch back.

Large differences.

How are you playing Spotify, is on your computer, Mac, streamer or what, what soundcard do you have, how is it set up, how are you connecting to your CD dac. As you can see there are still variables.

Dell Inspiron core i7. Streamed through Airport Express which is linked to the DAC on my CDP via the optical in. Quality cabling from the AE to the CDP.

I've also done the same thing on my MacBook, same results.

As Trev mentioned about cables which can give a 1 or 2% difference, this was more like 20% difference. Night & day.

So about another dozen or so variables to add to the list in my previous post...... :?

Quite frankly I would be pretty amazed if they sounded remotely the same.

In any test of this kind you have to remove as many variables as you can, you are not even close to doing that in this instance.

 

[TrevC]

There is a huge difference in sound quality between a 320mbps file and a CD. I had Emily from Musical Fidelity round yesterday to demonstrate some new headphones and we tested the difference between CD and Spotify premium.

A/B test: both the Spotify file and the CD go through the DAC on my CDP, Same amp, same volume, same speakers.

Methodology: Fleetwood Mac track started simultaneously on Spotify and CD. Button on the back of the CDP to switch sources.

Result: Spotify, whilst fine sounded incredibly hollow and weedy compared to CD which was warmer, more involving, more detail, more soundstage.

It wasn't even a closely-run thing, there were immediate differences that would be clear to absolutely anyone listening. I've done this on quite a few different albums and the result is always the same.

Congratulations, you and Al are clearly fine examples of Homo superior.

In reality, there are differences between the Ogg Vorbis files on Spotify and accurate rips of exactly the same disc, but they are relatively modest, impossible to pick on some material and usually benign, ie slight losses that do not draw attention to themselves.

The test that you ran is, sadly, meaningless, there are far too many variables in your comparison to be able to conclude anything of consequence.

Too many variables? There was only one variable and that was the source. Everything else was identical, switch directly from one to another, no time lags, switch back, switch again, switch back.

Large differences.

How are you playing Spotify, is on your computer, Mac, streamer or what, what soundcard do you have, how is it set up, how are you connecting to your CD dac. As you can see there are still variables.

Dell Inspiron core i7. Streamed through Airport Express which is linked to the DAC on my CDP via the optical in. Quality cabling from the AE to the CDP.

I've also done the same thing on my MacBook, same results.

As Trev mentioned about cables which can give a 1 or 2% difference, this was more like 20% difference. Night & day.

How do you know that your CD and the Spotify track were the same mix? BTW, mains cables make zero difference.

 

[JoelSim]

There is a huge difference in sound quality between a 320mbps file and a CD. I had Emily from Musical Fidelity round yesterday to demonstrate some new headphones and we tested the difference between CD and Spotify premium.

A/B test: both the Spotify file and the CD go through the DAC on my CDP, Same amp, same volume, same speakers.

Methodology: Fleetwood Mac track started simultaneously on Spotify and CD. Button on the back of the CDP to switch sources.

Result: Spotify, whilst fine sounded incredibly hollow and weedy compared to CD which was warmer, more involving, more detail, more soundstage.

It wasn't even a closely-run thing, there were immediate differences that would be clear to absolutely anyone listening. I've done this on quite a few different albums and the result is always the same.

Congratulations, you and Al are clearly fine examples of Homo superior.

In reality, there are differences between the Ogg Vorbis files on Spotify and accurate rips of exactly the same disc, but they are relatively modest, impossible to pick on some material and usually benign, ie slight losses that do not draw attention to themselves.

The test that you ran is, sadly, meaningless, there are far too many variables in your comparison to be able to conclude anything of consequence.

Too many variables? There was only one variable and that was the source. Everything else was identical, switch directly from one to another, no time lags, switch back, switch again, switch back.

Large differences.

How are you playing Spotify, is on your computer, Mac, streamer or what, what soundcard do you have, how is it set up, how are you connecting to your CD dac. As you can see there are still variables.

Dell Inspiron core i7. Streamed through Airport Express which is linked to the DAC on my CDP via the optical in. Quality cabling from the AE to the CDP.

I've also done the same thing on my MacBook, same results.

As Trev mentioned about cables which can give a 1 or 2% difference, this was more like 20% difference. Night & day.

So about another dozen or so variables to add to the list in my previous post...... :?

Quite frankly I would be pretty amazed if they sounded remotely the same.

In any test of this kind you have to remove as many variables as you can, you are not even close to doing that in this instance.

They didn't. Listening to Spotify was like taking all of the furniture out of the room.

http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-one-23-2330-aio/pd

 

[JoelSim]

I had Emily from Musical Fidelity round yesterday

oooOOOooo

She's a nice lass.

 

[John Duncan]

So a CD transport is the same as a computer (transport) for Spotify?

Real time reading of a CD is the same as streaming over the internet?

SPDIF interface from computer to dac is the same as the i2s interface inside the CD player?

Noise or jitter on the SPDIF not being handled well by the dac?

All as inaudible as the difference between 320k and 16/44, according to those who 'know something about science'...

Funny how when a datapoint doesn't fit our world view, it must be an error between user and CD player...

 

[John Duncan]

I had Emily from Musical Fidelity round yesterday

oooOOOooo

She's a nice lass.

Namedropper.

 

[John Duncan]

Perhaps someone could suggest a Spotify album and CD which are known to be the same master...

 

[BigH]

There is a huge difference in sound quality between a 320mbps file and a CD. I had Emily from Musical Fidelity round yesterday to demonstrate some new headphones and we tested the difference between CD and Spotify premium.

A/B test: both the Spotify file and the CD go through the DAC on my CDP, Same amp, same volume, same speakers.

Methodology: Fleetwood Mac track started simultaneously on Spotify and CD. Button on the back of the CDP to switch sources.

Result: Spotify, whilst fine sounded incredibly hollow and weedy compared to CD which was warmer, more involving, more detail, more soundstage.

It wasn't even a closely-run thing, there were immediate differences that would be clear to absolutely anyone listening. I've done this on quite a few different albums and the result is always the same.

Congratulations, you and Al are clearly fine examples of Homo superior.

In reality, there are differences between the Ogg Vorbis files on Spotify and accurate rips of exactly the same disc, but they are relatively modest, impossible to pick on some material and usually benign, ie slight losses that do not draw attention to themselves.

The test that you ran is, sadly, meaningless, there are far too many variables in your comparison to be able to conclude anything of consequence.

Too many variables? There was only one variable and that was the source. Everything else was identical, switch directly from one to another, no time lags, switch back, switch again, switch back.

Large differences.

How are you playing Spotify, is on your computer, Mac, streamer or what, what soundcard do you have, how is it set up, how are you connecting to your CD dac. As you can see there are still variables.

Dell Inspiron core i7. Streamed through Airport Express which is linked to the DAC on my CDP via the optical in. Quality cabling from the AE to the CDP.

I've also done the same thing on my MacBook, same results.

As Trev mentioned about cables which can give a 1 or 2% difference, this was more like 20% difference. Night & day.

So about another dozen or so variables to add to the list in my previous post...... :?

Quite frankly I would be pretty amazed if they sounded remotely the same.

In any test of this kind you have to remove as many variables as you can, you are not even close to doing that in this instance.

Quite so, it could well be the AEX or your computer, mixing windows and Apple does not always work, you may well find there are some hidden settings on your computer soundcard or in your computer that could make a difference. When I first started playing spotify it sounded rubbish when I delved deeper into the settings it improved greatly, so now on my set up its not much difference but its hard to know if the cd is the same as they are playing as again there are many versions, even from the same year. So don't think that all the 1984 Rumours cds sound the same they don't.

 

[JoelSim]

So a CD transport is the same as a computer (transport) for Spotify?

Real time reading of a CD is the same as streaming over the internet?

SPDIF interface from computer to dac is the same as the i2s interface inside the CD player?

Noise or jitter on the SPDIF not being handled well by the dac?

All as inaudible as the difference between 320k and 16/44, according to those who 'know something about science'...

Funny how when a datapoint doesn't fit our world view, it must be an error between user and CD player...

All I will say is that when I have done tests using 2 different computers (of decent pedigree), Spotify has sounded hugely inferior. Just how inferior you wouldn't believe to be honest. As, like many others, I quite happily listen to Spotify for hours and it sounds great. Just not as good as a CD, all those little differences above, I believe will contribute far less than the loss of data in the 320 file.

 

[JoelSim]

I had Emily from Musical Fidelity round yesterday

oooOOOooo

She's a nice lass.

Namedropper.

Moi?

 

[JoelSim]

There is a huge difference in sound quality between a 320mbps file and a CD. I had Emily from Musical Fidelity round yesterday to demonstrate some new headphones and we tested the difference between CD and Spotify premium.

A/B test: both the Spotify file and the CD go through the DAC on my CDP, Same amp, same volume, same speakers.

Methodology: Fleetwood Mac track started simultaneously on Spotify and CD. Button on the back of the CDP to switch sources.

Result: Spotify, whilst fine sounded incredibly hollow and weedy compared to CD which was warmer, more involving, more detail, more soundstage.

It wasn't even a closely-run thing, there were immediate differences that would be clear to absolutely anyone listening. I've done this on quite a few different albums and the result is always the same.

Congratulations, you and Al are clearly fine examples of Homo superior.

In reality, there are differences between the Ogg Vorbis files on Spotify and accurate rips of exactly the same disc, but they are relatively modest, impossible to pick on some material and usually benign, ie slight losses that do not draw attention to themselves.

The test that you ran is, sadly, meaningless, there are far too many variables in your comparison to be able to conclude anything of consequence.

Too many variables? There was only one variable and that was the source. Everything else was identical, switch directly from one to another, no time lags, switch back, switch again, switch back.

Large differences.

How are you playing Spotify, is on your computer, Mac, streamer or what, what soundcard do you have, how is it set up, how are you connecting to your CD dac. As you can see there are still variables.

Dell Inspiron core i7. Streamed through Airport Express which is linked to the DAC on my CDP via the optical in. Quality cabling from the AE to the CDP.

I've also done the same thing on my MacBook, same results.

As Trev mentioned about cables which can give a 1 or 2% difference, this was more like 20% difference. Night & day.

So about another dozen or so variables to add to the list in my previous post...... :?

Quite frankly I would be pretty amazed if they sounded remotely the same.

In any test of this kind you have to remove as many variables as you can, you are not even close to doing that in this instance.

Quite so, it could well be the AEX or your computer, mixing windows and Apple does not always work, you may well find there are some hidden settings on your computer soundcard or in your computer that could make a difference. When I first started playing spotify it sounded rubbish when I delved deeper into the settings it improved greatly, so now on my set up its not much difference but its hard to know if the cd is the same as they are playing as again there are many versions, even from the same year. So don't think that all the 1984 Rumours cds sound the same they don't.

As I mentioned I have used an Apple and a PC, across many different titles. The outcome has always been the same. There is a hypothesis in there.

I'm not talking a small difference either, Emily was very surprised at the level of difference.

 

[BigH]

So a CD transport is the same as a computer (transport) for Spotify?

Real time reading of a CD is the same as streaming over the internet?

SPDIF interface from computer to dac is the same as the i2s interface inside the CD player?

Noise or jitter on the SPDIF not being handled well by the dac?

All as inaudible as the difference between 320k and 16/44, according to those who 'know something about science'...

Funny how when a datapoint doesn't fit our world view, it must be an error between user and CD player...

Spotify has sounded hugely inferior. Just how inferior you wouldn't believe to be honest. As, like many others, I quite happily listen to Spotify for hours and it sounds great. Just not as good as a CD, all those little differences above, I believe will contribute far less than the loss of data in the 320 file.

So Spotify sounds great but is hugely inferior?

Sounds like your set up to me. I think wiring direct to the dac would be a better option.

 

[davedotco]

Perhaps someone could suggest a Spotify album and CD which are known to be the same master...

Very difficult to do, the Spotify album may not have been ripped from a CD in the first place and even if it has the CD may come from a different part of the world, different production etc.

Now, I grant you that these differences may often be quite small, as were the differences in the hardware mentioned ealier, but if you are trying to establish real differences between file types and bit rates etc which are also pretty small, they need to be taken care of.

Anyway there is a much simpler series of tests that pretty much anyone can do to give themselves a handle on what is going on.

Use DB Poweramp (or similar) software to rip your own CD to Flac and to 320kps mps, then compare. Try the ABX test in Foobar (?) if you wish.

Compare music on an iDevice directly connected to your dac withe the same device steamed over Airplay to AEX then dac.

Compare Spotify streamed 'live' on line to the exact same track downloaded and streamed direct from the devices solid state storage.

With just a little thought these tests can be pretty rigorous, probably don't actually 'prove' anything but they are pretty enlightening never the less.

 

[JoelSim]

So a CD transport is the same as a computer (transport) for Spotify?

Real time reading of a CD is the same as streaming over the internet?

SPDIF interface from computer to dac is the same as the i2s interface inside the CD player?

Noise or jitter on the SPDIF not being handled well by the dac?

All as inaudible as the difference between 320k and 16/44, according to those who 'know something about science'...

Funny how when a datapoint doesn't fit our world view, it must be an error between user and CD player...

Spotify has sounded hugely inferior. Just how inferior you wouldn't believe to be honest. As, like many others, I quite happily listen to Spotify for hours and it sounds great. Just not as good as a CD, all those little differences above, I believe will contribute far less than the loss of data in the 320 file.

So Spotify sounds great but is hugely inferior?

Sounds like your set up to me. I think wiring direct to the dac would be a better option.

Yep, there is nothing wrong with the sound I get from Spotify, it sounds great. Just nowhere near as good as a CD. Somehow, empty of warmth and engagement when compared. Not something you would notice in general listening, as I said it sounds great until you actually compare.

Bear in mind the system in question is nearly £10k's worth.

 

[SiUK]

Unfortunately, music CDs aren't all equal and if cr*p gets put on them then cr*p will come off of them, whether played via a £850 CD player or ripped to FLAC and played via a £850 streamer. Convert that cr*p sounding CD to <- 256kbps MP3 and your originally cr*ppy rip is now even cr*appier. Convert it to lossless flac, and you still have the same cr*appy sounding original CD in flac format. There's no way around it, the source is vitally important...but only if you consider sound quality to be important.

I'd surmise that a good percentage of people just don't consider (and have probably never considered) 'sound quality' to be that significant but have enjoyed listening to music nonetheless - and that's people from every generation, not just recent ones. Low quality sources - like MP3 - were therefore always going to succeed because they tap into a majority disposition. People that enjoy listening to music and also care passionately that the music actually sounds amazing are a minority group I'd say...and I'd dare to say that some that think they are in the latter group actually belong to the former, which confuses matters.

To me compressed music is an insult on top of an insult (cr*ppy sounding CDs) when listening via hi-fi...and whilst I admit it was the same for vinyl as well (I had some really, really abysmal vinyl recordings easily equal to some of the worst CDs!) things definitely seem to have got progressively worse, not helped by majority acceptance of things like 64kbps streaming services, and people's insatiable appetite for music rather than an appetite for a musical experience.

To nail my colours to the mast, I can often tell the difference between a 320kbps stereo mp3 and the equivalent lossless track, but when the source is good and or very familiar; sometimes it's just one or two differences in a track that your brain picks up on - of course it won't be every note - and sometimes it's many differences. But once your brain has alerted you to differences, and the differences are perceived to impact the sound quality in a negative way, then no amount of rationalisation will allow you to accept the differences as anything other than inferior. Just knowing this can affect your listening experience.

There's more to enjoying music than hearing it through the ears though. We experience music through emotion, vibration, etc. Deaf people dance to music and enjoy 'listening' to music I read somewhere once. Apparrently the area of the brain that is activated in hearing people when listening to music is activated in deaf people when 'feeling' music....and the two experiences are considered 'equal'. Anyhow, I read that somewhere once.