Floorstanders around £3,000 - a tale of two speakers

[Andrewjvt]

Thanks so much for the link, Vlad!  What a great review?

Well reviewed and it shows they are not tailored for pros like tools. They are made for listening to music. 

Bring out the large atcs to show their clients how the final product sounds

Yup. Common practice. 

Sorry op not wanting to derail but vladimir we are trying still to demo those jbl 7 series but they only arriving mid may and im going away until 20th so keep you informed.

 

[Native_bon]

Thanks so much for the link, Vlad!  What a great review?

Well reviewed and it shows they are not tailored for pros like tools. They are made for listening to music. 

So what Speakers are not made to listen to music. Sorry could not resist.

 

[Vladimir]

Sorry op not wanting to derail but vladimir we are trying still to demo those jbl 7 series but they only arriving mid may and im going away until 20th so keep you informed.

Thanks. I appreciate it.

Thanks so much for the link, Vlad! What a great review?

Well reviewed and it shows they are not tailored for pros like tools. They are made for listening to music.

So what Speakers are not made to listen to music. Sorry could not resist.

Usually monitors with excessive upper midrange. You get a headache after an hour.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Going by hifi choice review the ATC SMC40s are based on a Yamaha NS-1000M speaker

ATC have developed a proper midrange speaker driver that they managed to get to work properly as apparently not meany speaker companies make a good mid range speaker or do not both and use a bass drivers instead to get the same effect .

http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/news/article/atc-scm40--pound;3275/20530

 

[Blacksabbath25]

double post

 

[Vladimir]

Going by hifi choice review the ATC SMC40s are based on a Yamaha NS-1000M speaker

ATC have developed a proper midrange speaker driver that they managed to get to work properly as apparently not meany speaker companies make a good mid range speaker or do not both and use a bass drivers instead to get the same effect .

http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/news/article/atc-scm40--pound;3275/20530

Clicky

 

[stevebrock]

Great write up, Nopiano. I was secretly rooting for Martin Logans especially at the price. Only proves how difficult it is to replace such wonderful speakers.

Somehow Primare + ATC combo sounds more modern than Krell + SF. But one thing's for sure you do go for very classy components 🙂 Enjoy!

im happy with my Primare ATC combo

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Going by hifi choice review the ATC SMC40s are based on a Yamaha NS-1000M speaker

ATC have developed a proper midrange speaker driver that they managed to get to work properly as apparently not meany speaker companies make a good mid range speaker or do not both and use a bass drivers instead to get the same effect .

http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/news/article/atc-scm40--pound;3275/20530

Clicky

you beat me to it ..... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7yLUzGbD0B8

 

[lpv]

Just look at their client list - it's mind boggling!

I know ATC very well, ex owner of SCM11, SCM19 and active 40s..

I totally understand your excitement.. going from sonus fabers to more accurate sound is a rewarding experience.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Going by hifi choice review the ATC SMC40s are based on a Yamaha NS-1000M speaker

ATC have developed a proper midrange speaker driver that they managed to get to work properly as apparently not meany speaker companies make a good mid range speaker or do not both and use a bass drivers instead to get the same effect .

http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/news/article/atc-scm40--pound;3275/20530

Hi Bs25

Fwiw, ATC's Corporate brochure put together by Mr ATC himself Billy Woodman -

http://atcforums.co.uk/pdf/ATC%20CORP%20BROCHURE.pdf

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[lpv]

So what Speakers are not made to listen to music. Sorry could not resist.

Usually monitors with excessive upper midrange. You get a headache after an hour.

any chance you can name some monitors that in your view have excessive upper midrange?

 

[lpv]

I think it's time atc should rephrase their manual.. especially the following sentence for passive speakers customers: "choosing to offer active loudspeakers is a fundamentally better solution to the problems posed by accurate, high level music reproduction"

I think I'm learning they are really a pro speaker maker, who thankfully dabble in the domestic market. And active domestic versions are available. The real classic which reveals how un-hyped they are is that mine are in the 'Entry Series'. That shows where they sit in the scheme of things!

yeah.. but when I first bought them and checked their manual saying actives are clearly superior... come on, bit like: you bought some ham and then inside message from the butcher: cheese is much better.

 

[Gazzip]

I am very impressed that ATC put the 75mm soft domed midrange driver in to their lower range speakers. PMC who (allegedly) copied that driver only put it in to their larger monitors starting at £15K. I am a PMC whore and have been for years, but I do question their motivation for this. Good on you ATC and congratulations on your soon to be new toys.

 

[Andrewjvt]

I think it's time atc should rephrase their manual.. especially the following sentence for passive speakers customers: "choosing to offer active loudspeakers is a fundamentally better solution to the problems posed by accurate, high level music reproduction" 

I think I'm learning they are really a pro speaker maker, who thankfully dabble in the domestic market.  And active domestic versions are available.  The real classic which reveals how un-hyped they are is that mine are in the 'Entry Series'.  That shows where they sit in the scheme of things!

 

yeah.. but when I first bought them and checked their manual saying actives are clearly superior... come on, bit like: you bought some ham and then inside message from the butcher: cheese is much better.

Atc have always made this point very clear that the active versions, in their opinion are clearly superior.

That does not mean the passive are bad

 

[Vladimir]

So what Speakers are not made to listen to music. Sorry could not resist.

Usually monitors with excessive upper midrange. You get a headache after an hour.

any chance you can name some monitors that in your view have excessive upper midrange?

Yamaha HS series and of course the NS10s. How do you not know this?

 

[nopiano]

Great write up, Nopiano. I was secretly rooting for Martin Logans especially at the price. Only proves how difficult it is to replace such wonderful speakers.

Somehow Primare + ATC combo sounds more modern than Krell + SF. But one thing's for sure you do go for very classy components 🙂 Enjoy!

Thanks very much, insider. I was rooting for the MLs too, but I had to face the fact that even if they'd cost only £100 I couldn't live with them as a replacement. I've still evolved a bit from CD to SACD, from a Class A/B amp to a sort of Class D, and from two-way with ABR to 3-way speakers!

 

[nopiano]

Damn good write up. So, once again I will have to wait a while to get to audition Martin Logans eh? I thought you were going for them....... nevermind.

Look after your back when those ATCs arrive.. 🙂

Yes, I thought so too, Al. Sorry you'll not hear them, but I'll let you know when the ATCs arrive.

 

[lpv]

any chance you can name some monitors that in your view have excessive upper midrange?

Yamaha HS series and of course the NS10s. How do you not know this?

you seem confused.. I'll try to explain, HS series ( just like jbl's) have suck out midrange despite of what manufacturers graphs (you seem to like) claims.

get some UMIK, install some REW and measure your jbl's, post it here and we'll discuss.

 

[Vladimir]

any chance you can name some monitors that in your view have excessive upper midrange?

Yamaha HS series and of course the NS10s. How do you not know this?

you seem confused.. I'll try to explain, HS series ( just like jbl's) have suck out midrange despite of what manufacturers graphs (you seem to like) claims.

get some UMIK, install some REW and measure your jbl's, post it here and we'll discuss.

Nope.

 

[lpv]

any chance you can name some monitors that in your view have excessive upper midrange?

Yamaha HS series and of course the NS10s. How do you not know this?

you seem confused.. I'll try to explain, HS series ( just like jbl's) have suck out midrange despite of what manufacturers graphs (you seem to like) claims.

get some UMIK, install some REW and measure your jbl's, post it here and we'll discuss.

Nope.

*angel*

 

[lindsayt]

Going by hifi choice review the ATC SMC40s are based on a Yamaha NS-1000M speaker

?????

Let's play speaker Top Trumps with ATC SCM40 statistics first, Yamaha NS-1000M 2nd.

Bass driver size: 164mm - 300mm

Midrange driver: 75mm soft dome - 88 mm berylium

Tweeter: 25mm soft dome - 30 mm berylium

Dimensions: 265x980x300mm - 375x675x326mm

Weight: 31 kg - 31 kg

Sensitivity: 85db/w/m - 90db/w/m

Crossover frequencies: 380hz, 3.5khz - 500hz 6khz

Apart from them both being 3 way sealed boxes and weighing 31 kgs, they appear to have little in common.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Going by hifi choice review the ATC SMC40s are based on a Yamaha NS-1000M speaker

?????

Let's play speaker Top Trumps with ATC SCM40 statistics first, Yamaha NS-1000M 2nd.

Bass driver size: 164mm - 300mm

Midrange driver: 75mm soft dome - 88 mm berylium

Tweeter: 25mm soft dome - 30 mm berylium

Dimensions: 265x980x300mm - 375x675x326mm

Weight: 31 kg - 31 kg

Sensitivity: 85db/w/m - 90db/w/m

Crossover frequencies: 380hz, 3.5khz - 500hz 6khz

Apart from them both being 3 way sealed boxes and weighing 31 kgs, they appear to have little in common.

hi I was just going by what the hifi choice review had said if you read the review

i get that they are not the same spec but somewhere along the line the Yamaha NS-1000 speakers had something to do with the ATC design .

 

[lindsayt]

Yes. I'd read the review. This is the only mention of the 1000M's in the review:

The benefit of a dome, as well as excellent dispersion, is that it is phase-coherent with the dome tweeter – which is to say it radiates sound waves in a similar manner. This brings excellent integration to that critical tweeter/midrange driver relationship, and you can hear it in every speaker so designed, from the classic Yamaha NS-1000M to the SCM40.

The review does not state that the SCM40's are based on the 1000M's. All it says is that they both have excellent integration of the tweeter/midrange because both use domed squawkers and tweeters.

Or at least that's what the reviewer thinks. I can't think of any speakers that I've ever heard where midrange/tweeter integration has been an issue. And what about integration between the bass driver and midrange unit? To me, the whole 2 x domed driver thing is just a throwaway comment in a magazine speaker review. Nothing to take seriously.

At no point did the Yamaha speaker have anything specifically to do with the design of the SCM40's. They are 2 different and independent designs.

 

[Vladimir]

Although you are correct, I think there is an engineering background story that ties these two very different speakers together.
However, I read about the challenge of making a dome midrange driver long time ago and can't really share it in details. In brief after Villchurs invention of the dome tweeter it was concluded that the ultimate midrange would be a large dome. But due to materials available at the time no one could make a good one (dome colapses, breakup mode bla bla). Untill Yamaha did. But Berillium was/is too exotic, expensive, fragile, toxic, so the engineering search went on. Somehow it got done by Vifa or ATC or IDK.
All this from poor memory, just a disclaimer.

 

[nopiano]

BTW, to fix broken text in the editor, you need to start merging all of it in one paragraph, starting from bottom towards the top. Then you start adding paragraphs by hitting Enter begining from top towards the end.

I've tried editing to no avail - but not yet given up. I appreciate the tip.

Success. I collapsed it all, and this time it has worked. Thanks again for the advice, Vlad!