Floorstanders around £3,000 - a tale of two speakers

[Andrewjvt]

My 2cents for you.
Once they arrive, dont worry too much on the sound as they take very long to settle in.
But will still sound great out the box
I never noticed the change from my atcs but believe me they take a while.

 

[Vladimir]

My 2cents for you.
Once they arrive, dont worry too much on the sound as they take very long to settle in.
But will still sound great out the box
I never noticed the change from my atcs but believe me they take a while.

Big motors in those drivers.

 

[nopiano]

My 2cents for you. Once they arrive, dont worry too much on the sound as they take very long to settle in. But will still sound great out the box I never noticed the change from my atcs but believe me they take a while.

Thanks, I had wondered about that. Do you happen to know what ATC say about 'break in' themselves? I did look briefly at the user manual but recall it was pretty succinct.

(The demo ones I borrowed are over twelve months old, so they are definitely run in!).

 

[insider9]

Great write up, Nopiano. I was secretly rooting for Martin Logans especially at the price. Only proves how difficult it is to replace such wonderful speakers.

Somehow Primare + ATC combo sounds more modern than Krell + SF. But one thing's for sure you do go for very classy components Enjoy!

im happy with my Primare ATC combo 

I'd be happy with either. Both fab setups!

 

[Kubs]

Great read! I'm on a similar mission in regards to speaker upgrade. To date I've listened to the ATC 40, PMC 25 24, KEF Ref 1, Piega (Swedish brand) - I've yet to demo the quad z3, and PMC 20 26 which are available for a good price. In summary I really wanted to love the ATC, but I thought they were ok ... Before I demoed I did her the PMC 25 24 first which were amazing ... The bass was lovely. Again I had high expectations for the KEFs but we're not overly impressed ... The Piega were a surprise .. a very enjoyable listen ... I'd be interested to hear the floor stand version. The atcs were being powered by a naim system and an arcam DAC which I feel probably didn't bring out the best in them. With that in mind I want to give them another chance. Also on the list are quadral chromium 8.

The search continues.

 

[Andrewjvt]

My 2cents for you. Once they arrive, dont worry too much on the sound as they take very long to settle in. But will still sound great out the box I never noticed the change from my atcs but believe me they take a while.

Thanks, I had wondered about that.  Do you happen to know what ATC say about 'break in' themselves?  I did look briefly at the user manual but recall it was pretty succinct.  

(The demo ones I borrowed are over twelve months old, so they are definitely run in!). 

Ive bever asked but im sure ive heard anything from 40 - 400 hours.

 

[Andrewjvt]

My 2cents for you. Once they arrive, dont worry too much on the sound as they take very long to settle in. But will still sound great out the box I never noticed the change from my atcs but believe me they take a while.

Thanks, I had wondered about that.  Do you happen to know what ATC say about 'break in' themselves?  I did look briefly at the user manual but recall it was pretty succinct.  

(The demo ones I borrowed are over twelve months old, so they are definitely run in!). 

Ive bever asked but im sure ive heard anything from 40 - 400 hours.

 

[nopiano]

My 2cents for you. Once they arrive, dont worry too much on the sound as they take very long to settle in. But will still sound great out the box I never noticed the change from my atcs but believe me they take a while.

Thanks, I had wondered about that. Do you happen to know what ATC say about 'break in' themselves? I did look briefly at the user manual but recall it was pretty succinct.

(The demo ones I borrowed are over twelve months old, so they are definitely run in!).

Ive bever asked but im sure ive heard anything from 40 - 400 hours.

Thanks, Andrew. I've asked on the ATC forum, so I'll see what they reckon!

 

[CnoEvil]

I did comment a while back...and you usually respond...so in case you missed it, I just wanted to make sure that you knew I enjoyed your insight...and somewhat surprising result. Old school SF to ATC....who'd a thunk it.

 

[Native_bon]

I did comment a while back...and you usually respond...so in case you missed it, I just wanted to make sure that you knew I enjoyed your insight...and somewhat surprising result. Old school SF to ATC....who'd a thunk it.

*shok* That must be a massive change in presentation I think.

 

[nopiano]

I did comment a while back...and you usually respond...so in case you missed it, I just wanted to make sure that you knew I enjoyed your insight...and somewhat surprising result. Old school SF to ATC....who'd a thunk it.

Apologies for not acknowledging Cno, though I definitely read it and agree! (I rarely disagree with anything you write!)

Funny thing is, in my system and room at least, they aren't as different as you'd possibly imagine. The old SF sound surprisingly clear and enthusiastic, by no means warm and cuddly. To my shock, and frankly, horror, it was the electrostatics that were mellow - though to the point of my not enjoying them at all, or at least only sporadically. I'd have taken them back whatever the price, which I'd never have predicted. They are also pretty scrappily made in some respects - though not the panels themselves. But there are nasty springy speakers connectors and on the ML forum, a picture of the inside of the bass cabinet is very disappointing (though the driver itself is pretty good, the port looks like an old toilet bend!). Something you'd never find with the British ATC.

 

[CnoEvil]

Apologies for not acknowledging Cno, though I definitely read it and agree! (I rarely disagree with anything you write!)

Nothing to apologize for. You always respond to my ramblings, so I wanted to reciprocate.

 

[Kubs]

I'm open to all suggestions but also keen to limit the number of speakers I audition - having a young family it's not easy to arrange a spontaneous trip to a speaker demo - although I did take my 3 year old daughter who was helpful in her own way. I will give the ATC another go ... They looked great in satin white and like I said I wanted to love them so much ... Need to find another stockist in London. Harberths have been recommended to me before.

Can you share where you purchased the atcs from? A home demo option would be great!

 

[CnoEvil]

Again I had high expectations for the KEFs but we're not overly impressed

You should try a Linn DS (Majik or Akurate) with your MF and Ref 1s.....I suspect it might make all the difference. The only time I heard Ref 1s sound less than excellent, was down to the Source.

 

[nopiano]

I'm open to all suggestions but also keen to limit the number of speakers I audition - having a young family it's not easy to arrange a spontaneous trip to a speaker demo - although I did take my 3 year old daughter who was helpful in her own way. I will give the ATC another go ... They looked great in satin white and like I said I wanted to love them so much ... Need to find another stockist in London. Harberths have been recommended to me before.

Can you share where you purchased the atcs from? A home demo option would be great!

Sure. I'd wondered whether to credit them anyway. Paul Green HiFi, near Bath. Easy to park right outside as on an industrial estate not in a high street. Paul is quite old school, like me I guess, and practically insists on listening at home. Very knowledgeable chap, and he carries Musical Fidelity and KEF too. Worth a trip down the M4!

Predictably, I agree with Cno, and trying another source might be worth exploring.

http://www.paulgreenhifi.co.uk

 

[nopiano]

Great read! I'm on a similar mission in regards to speaker upgrade. To date I've listened to the ATC 40, PMC 25 24, KEF Ref 1, Piega (Swedish brand) - I've yet to demo the quad z3, and PMC 20 26 which are available for a good price. In summary I really wanted to love the ATC, but I thought they were ok ... Before I demoed I did her the PMC 25 24 first which were amazing ... The bass was lovely. Again I had high expectations for the KEFs but we're not overly impressed ... The Piega were a surprise .. a very enjoyable listen ... I'd be interested to hear the floor stand version. The atcs were being powered by a naim system and an arcam DAC which I feel probably didn't bring out the best in them. With that in mind I want to give them another chance. Also on the list are quadral chromium 8.

The search continues.

I'd definitely not pair Naim with ATC, though I've heard them nicely working with PMC. The ATC integrated amp was a pleasant surprise and very nicely made. Do try to hear the speakers somewhere else, if you can!

The twenty.26 I'd wondered about too, as I've heard them before, and are much better value than the newer, and frankly overpriced, twenty5 series. Fact.8 were great with Naim: I once spent an afternoon with them. Would need to be preowned I guess.

KEF are better in the long run, I think, as they don't emphasise anything, whereas PMC can be a bit boom and fizz, which is exciting but not very accurate.

Would you consider the Harbeth Super HL5 plus? They sound great, but I wasn't sure I could live with the retro looks.

Good luck!

 

[Kubs]

Thanks cno. I must add the KEFs were demoed with an aurelic streamer/DAC and powered by a MF nu vista 800 .... When I say 'not overly impressed' I should have elaborated that for £5k they didn't seem value for money .... They did should good and provided a presentation that I am accustomed to. I have heard the KEF Ref 5 which were absolutely amazing ....

 

[Kubs]

Thanks for sharing .... A bit to far for me coming from south London.

Which colour did you go for and will you be bi/tri wiring?

 

[nopiano]

Thanks for sharing .... A bit to far for me coming from south London.

Which colour did you go for and will you be bi/tri wiring?

Fair enough, and there are several nearby you, though not all dealers seem to be equally enthusiastic.

Decided on the traditional cherry, having had gloss black for twenty years.

Will be beginning with the jumpers in place using 4mm Van Damme OFC, but I still have some pricy Transparent bi-wire I could try one day. Need to think through which of the three drivers get priority and which get jumpers!

 

[CnoEvil]

I have heard the KEF Ref 5 which were absolutely amazing ....

...in what system.

I haven't heard the Auralic, so can't comment. They should sound stunning (especially with the Nu Vista) and more like a small Floorstander....but they are very revealing of everything in the system.

 

[ellisdj]

Kef ref sound depends on the port tube being used.

That changes things drastically

 

[Kubs]

I heard the Ref 5's last year at the indulgence hi fi show. I can't recall the source but they were being powered by a MF Nu Vista Amp ... It was one of those, 'I' want a pair moments' ... Finished in white with a blue uni-driver ... They filled the very large room with sound easily.

 

[Macspur]

A really enjoyable read, but I was hoping you might have had Harbeth in your list.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

 

[CnoEvil]

I heard the Ref 5's last year at the indulgence hi fi show. I can't recall the source but they were being powered by a MF Nu Vista Amp ... It was one of those, 'I' want a pair moments' ... Finished in white with a blue uni-driver ... They filled the very large room with sound easily.

I have come to the conclusion, that if you have a "Musical Source" they sound musical and if you have an "Analytical Source" they sound analytical.

I thought the previous model Refs were detailed, but the new model takes it to another level, by really looking deep into a recording, but with a treble that is sweeter. I wouldn't rule them out until you hear them with a DS, which is the most "Analogue" sounding digital source that I've heard.

The Ref 1s should give a good chunk of what you heard with the Ref 5s....and imo cabling shouldn't be overlooked...IME. Linn cables work well.

 

[nopiano]

A really enjoyable read, but I was hoping you might have had Harbeth in your list.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

Dear Mac, I did, in the sense that I'd heard them a couple of times at the Bristol show, and was mightily taken with their naturalness. The Super HL5+ specifically that is. I also followed some exchanges on their forum, and enjoyed Alan Shaw's unique and very rigorous take on most things audio. However, two things got in the way:-

1. The traditional look and need for stands. Not very appealing after my Sonus fabers.

2. The nearest dealers being Essex and Sussex, when we are in South East Wales. Though willing to travel, that was stretching it a bit, especially if I wanted a home dem.

Aside from loving the ATC's sound, I have a lot of respect for their engineering pedigree and studio relevance. The fact that we used to live in Kemble, just a few miles from the factory near Stroud was the icing on the cake! It's a long time since I had a British speakers. My Celestion SL600s were stolen in 1997!

And, ironically I'd gone to Paul Green because he had Sonus faber and MartinLogan. But he clearly loves ATC too!