Source first still important, dumbed down hifi, or is there a problem with your system?

[Craig M.]

I do wonder, partly as I know there is at least one manufacturer who claims otherwise and also thinks the iphone is good as a source!

I knew this was the reason you'd started this thread.

The only occassion I've seen someone pass an (credible) AB/X was as a result of training themselves to hear a specific artefact that occurred for a split second on very specific sounds. The person who could do it stated that there was only a handful of tracks he could do it on - the example he used was a Kraftwerk track, and that he was talking about a split second artefact that might occur 3 or 4 times in an entire song. I've never seen anyone claim with any credibility that they could tell 320 and flac apart because the track as a whole had changed. I have to admit that when I read it was possible to train yourself to hear mp3 artefacts, my first thought was 'who would want to do that - it has nothing to do with listening to music?' The guy who could do it with the Kraftwerk track was a recording engineer, so at least he had the excuse of it being his job.

 

[JoelSim]

U2 - With or without you

2 mins in. Spotify sounds flabby bassed and like you are listening through a pillowcase in comparison. Really.

 

[Craig M.]

Lossless (that's where it only cuts silences out, yes?)

I'm not sure, I think there is more efficient packaging of the data going on.

 

[JoelSim]

And with Spotify my speaker rubbers are going bananas on the bass.

 

[JoelSim]

The The - That Uncertain Smile.

Thrashy symbols. Biggest difference so far. The CD is so much easier to listen to.

 

[BigH]

I've just compared Spotify on my HTC mobile phone to a CD, listening on the same AKG 550 headphones. The phone sounds better.

That explains many things Trev :bounce:

What does it explain?

OK, I'll tell you why it sounds better. The CD player doesn't have bass boost eq.

Does Spotify? I don't have a clue as I have never changed any settings and wouldn't know where to start.

I don't have a loudness button either.

Bah humbug hahaha!

I love these discussions on forums as it's plainly apparant that no matter what you say, there will always be people who disagree. It's a good thing as it's what makes the world go round.

As I said before I had to fiddle with the settings not in spotify but in my soundcard which is separate from the computer sound settings to get spotify to sound good on my system, the default settings were no good and it was not obvious at all..

 

[JoelSim]

Jack Johnson - Gone

Bit of a problem on levels on this one, the CD much louder.

Spotify muffled in comparison.

Something heavier next.

 

[JoelSim]

Depeche Mode - Enjoy the Silence

Spotify a bit quieter and more open. Not sure which I prefer here, Spotify maybe a bit more dancy albeit tingy.

 

[JoelSim]

REM - Everybody Hurts

Again just a bit more enjoyable with more warmth and feeling on CD.

Bored of trying now, need to settle and listen, ha ha.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Wow... this thread.............. :O

so we were not supposed to trust our ears and now simply switching source is unreliable because of variables.

I'm suprised no ones been accused of being a witch in this thread......lol.

 

[JoelSim]

Shi'it. I'd forgotten how good lhb - sorry it's not gonna get me high could sound at a (pretty high) volume.

Wow!

 

[letsavit2]

I did a test today, my ipad, apple lossless streaming to a airport express against my naim and marantz CD player on there respected systems.

Results to my nearly 40 old partied hard over the years brain and ears, it sounds the same.

Source last, well 0&1 sources anyway!

 

[davedotco]

Wow this thread....... :wall: Go down the pub for a couple of hours and all this breaks out, hugely amusing.

Some people simply have no idea of the difference between a casual observation of different systems and actually trying to 'prove' a point.

If, as in joels case, he listens to CD played on his player/dac then to Spotify, with indeterminate settings, streamed via an internet connection of unknown quality, via Airplay etc, etc , etc and reports that CD sounds much better, then that is a perfectly reasonable statement.

To then decide, quite arbitarily in this case, that this is the caused by the difference between a Red Book 16/44.1 datastream and a compressed 320kbs MP3 data stream is nonsense of the highest order, there are literally dozens of differences in the two playback systems any one, or any combination of which could cause the differences.

If you want to make those assertions then at least try and conduct a comparison where the only thing that changes is the item under test, in this case the bit rate, not hard to do.

Despite JD's scoffing, the only way to prove those assertions is to eliminate all other variables, even those that you think may not make a difference, that is the only way to be sure.

Whether or not these things matter to you is not the point here, the issue is experimental rigor, where a test is conducted in such a way that only the 'items' under test are changed, it is only then that you can say with any certainty what the difference is or isn't.

 

[Alec]

OGG data stream.

 

[Broner]

I use spotify premium (with the box for high quality streaming checked) on an old notebook with a dac between it and the amplifier. I haven't compared CDs and spotify before tonight that is. It wasn't a thorough investigation or anything, but I listened to 'riders on the storm' from the doors and 'airbag' and 'exit music for a film' from radiohead. It wasn't really a very pleasant experience as I was mostly playing back bits over and over again to see if I heard something different. Sometimes I though I did hear the CD sounding more pleasantly, but at the next listen I couldn't confirm it.

Conclusion: none really, besides that I couldn't really point out any differences.

@dave How were things at the pub?

 

[davedotco]

I use spotify premium (with the box for high quality streaming checked) on an old notebook with a dac between it and the amplifier. I haven't compared CDs and spotify before tonight that is. It wasn't a thorough investigation or anything, but I listened to 'riders on the storm' from the doors and 'airbag' and 'exit music for a film' from radiohead. It wasn't really a very pleasant experience as I was mostly playing back bits over and over again to see if I heard something different. Sometimes I though I did hear the CD sounding more pleasantly, but at the next listen I couldn't confirm it.

Conclusion: none really, besides that I couldn't really point out any differences.

@dave How were things at the pub?

Strange, as always.

My local is, frankly, a bit unusual. When I first visited about a year ago I walked in to find an old fashioned pub that sold at least 6 real ales, real cider, perry and a selection of mainly Belgian bottled beers.

The sound system was playing Joy Division (Shadowplay), reading matter on the bar comprised several issues of Private Eye and the bookcases around the walls contined, among others, the complete works of Terry Pratchet and John Le Carre.

The staff all have ponytails, even the girls, and the conversation around the bar is mostly about beer and music. Tonights playlist was primarily modern US 'indy' rock with Diiv and Boxer Rebellion featuring quite heavily. Several pints of 'Dark Star' were consumed.

A fairly normal evening in other words, didn't stay late as we had a late supper waiting at home.

 

[letsavit2]

I use spotify premium (with the box for high quality streaming checked) on an old notebook with a dac between it and the amplifier. I haven't compared CDs and spotify before tonight that is. It wasn't a thorough investigation or anything, but I listened to 'riders on the storm' from the doors and 'airbag' and 'exit music for a film' from radiohead. It wasn't really a very pleasant experience as I was mostly playing back bits over and over again to see if I heard something different. Sometimes I though I did hear the CD sounding more pleasantly, but at the next listen I couldn't confirm it.

Conclusion: none really, besides that I couldn't really point out any differences.

@dave How were things at the pub?

kind of I what I did, I had the cd (rudimental) running 10secs before my ipad and flicked between the two for 4 tracks. Listening for subtle pieces in the tracks I know and have listened to a 1000 times this year. Pushed both systems to see if one lost control quicker than the other, nope.

the difference between my naim system and marantz system is night and day. £800 CD player, £300 CD player and £80 airport express not so.

Not a blind test but I wanted £1100 of CD equipment and 500 cd,s to win, it didn't.

 

[Broner]

@Dave You should go for the Belgian beers next time .

@letsavit don't give your hopes up just yet. There still are a number of factors that could influence the music you hear, meaning that your CDs might actually come out better in a proper test

 

[davedotco]

@Dave You should go for the Belgian beers next time .

@letsavit don't give your hopes up just yet. There still are a number of factors that could influence the music you hear, meaning that your CDs might actually come out better in a proper test

They sometimes get real Belgian beer on draught, so I have some then, not a big fan of bottled beer. Bear in mind that I have spent well over 30 years drinking english 'real ale' and I have the taste for it

 

[BigH]

Belgian beer is good but bottles are a bit gassy/yeasty and very strong. Belgian draught is very good but again a bit strong, had some called Van Eke in Brugges and that was 7% on draught but it did not taste like it.

Dark Star if fine althought don't get it much round here.

 

[davedotco]

Belgian beer is good but bottles are a bit gassy/yeasty and very strong. Belgian draught is very good but again a bit strong, had some called Van Eke in Brugges and that was 7% on draught but it did not taste like it.

Dark Star if fine althought don't get it much round here.

Dark Star is fairly normal, everyday beer, not like some or the stranger, stronger brews.

I drink it in honour of the greatest rock guitarist of all time.

 

[fr0g]

The problem here is misunderstanding and testing non like for like.

320 Kbps is indeed much lower res than a CD, or FLAC.

Comparisons to JPGs are meaningless and irrelevant. Especially talk of blowing them up to be posters.

MP3 and other lossy codecs are made to hide sounds we can't possibly hear. There is a lot of detail in a WAV file that is not necessary, and the best lossy compression simply chucks it.

Nowadays, I don't believe that more than .0001 percent of the population could tell it apart from a CD.

The important part, whilst boring is that it is bit-perfect rip of the same CD.

Otherwise the test is useless.

Next. I am certain that some albums are not bit-perfect rips.

I have music unlimited and Spotify. Both 320 Kbps.

I sense compression artifacts. No, not sense, it's basically shyt on MU, and ok on Spotify in the cases I have tried. The opposite could be true.

So testing Spotify against your own CD is pointless. Ifyou like it, use it. End of. If you find something better...use that. I have access to the excellent WiMP here in Sweden, and they are now streaming lossless...But it's double the price...and for me, not worth it. Spotify and WiMP standard (256 Kbps AAC) in 99% of cases are excellent, and to my mind as good as the CD rip in FLAC. /CD player isn't currently plugged in).

 

[manicm]

320 Kbps is indeed much lower res than a CD, or FLAC.

No kidding.

There is a lot of detail in a WAV file that is not necessary, and the best lossy compression simply chucks it.

So in effect you're saying retail CDs just occupy wasted plastic - so what vinyl lovers scorned as a con is actually a much bigger con?

 

[Overdose]

320 Kbps is indeed much lower res than a CD, or FLAC.

No kidding.

There is a lot of detail in a WAV file that is not necessary, and the best lossy compression simply chucks it.

So in effect you're saying retail CDs just occupy wasted plastic - so what vinyl lovers scorned as a con is actually a much bigger con?

The con ,was the cost of CDs. Far more expensive to buy than vinyl, but much cheaper to produce.

When CDs first came out, vinyl was around £6 or £7 and CDs around £9 or £10 for the same album.

 

[manicm]

The con ,was the cost of CDs. Far more expensive to buy than vinyl, but much cheaper to produce.

When CDs first came out, vinyl was around £6 or £7 and CDs around £9 or £10 for the same album.

And now it's the reverse - they got clever and charge you more than they ever did, be it CD or LP (> double the price of the silver). But my point to was to catch Fr0g out on the audio front >)