Source first still important, dumbed down hifi, or is there a problem with your system?

[JoelSim]

The higher bitrate box has always been ticked ever since I signed up many years ago. Since then I haven't tried to equalize anything.

Besides, what you are saying is that 320kbps is no better than the bog-standard Spotify...isn't it?

Can I use a jpg to print a big roadside 48 sheet poster measuring several metres in length and get a quality finish? No. You need an image that hasn't been compressed. Can you use a jpg at 10cm x 10cm and get a decent result? Yes.

 

[Alec]

So I paid for premium but didn't get it as I didn't fiddle with any settings? Good stuff!

Don't worry. You won't be able to hear the difference!!!

That's probably true, actually. Still, there's a principle at stake and...er...probably some not so small print I should have read.

I'm on the free one currently anyway. Sounds awesome

 

[JoelSim]

So I paid for premium but didn't get it as I didn't fiddle with any settings? Good stuff!

Don't worry. You won't be able to hear the difference!!!

That's probably true, actually. Still, there's a principle at stake and...er...probably some not so small print I should have read.

I'm on the free one currently anyway. Sounds awesome

Pop round anytime and I'll show you the difference between a CD and 320. If normal Spotify sounds awesome to you then wait until you've heard how it can sound.

 

[chebby]

Pop round anytime and I'll show you the difference between a CD and 320.

Sort of assumes that Alec has never heard a CD before.

 

[steve_1979]

There is a huge difference in sound quality between a 320mbps file and a CD. I had Emily from Musical Fidelity round yesterday to demonstrate some new headphones and we tested the difference between CD and Spotify premium.

A/B test: both the Spotify file and the CD go through the DAC on my CDP, Same amp, same volume, same speakers.

Methodology: Fleetwood Mac track started simultaneously on Spotify and CD. Button on the back of the CDP to switch sources.

Result: Spotify, whilst fine sounded incredibly hollow and weedy compared to CD which was warmer, more involving, more detail, more soundstage.

It wasn't even a closely-run thing, there were immediate differences that would be clear to absolutely anyone listening. I've done this on quite a few different albums and the result is always the same.

Congratulations, you and Al are clearly fine examples of Homo superior.

In reality, there are differences between the Ogg Vorbis files on Spotify and accurate rips of exactly the same disc, but they are relatively modest, impossible to pick on some material and usually benign, ie slight losses that do not draw attention to themselves.

The test that you ran is, sadly, meaningless, there are far too many variables in your comparison to be able to conclude anything of consequence.

Too many variables? There was only one variable and that was the source. Everything else was identical, switch directly from one to another, no time lags, switch back, switch again, switch back.

Large differences.

Well, there's the possibility that the levels were different and that the Spotify tracks were of different masters than the CD. People claim 'night and day' differences at even the most inocuous of changes, so a slight level discrepancy would appear as an obvious difference is quality.

Yes but less so if you have demoed a number of different titles, different genres. Unless Spotify comes as standard with the levels messed around with, does it? I've never changed any settings on Spotify except the volume which is set to max.

If you've never changed any settings in Spotify then you're probably still only hearing tracks played at 160kbps. Even with Spotify Premium you need to manually set the higher quality version first hear the 320kbps tracks instead of the 160kbps versions and the difference between to two are quite easy to hear.

What settings were you using for Spotify? Have a look in the 'preferences' menu to see which check boxes are ticked? Did you have the 'High quality streaming' and 'Set the same volume level for all tracks' switched on?

 

[JoelSim]

There is a huge difference in sound quality between a 320mbps file and a CD. I had Emily from Musical Fidelity round yesterday to demonstrate some new headphones and we tested the difference between CD and Spotify premium.

A/B test: both the Spotify file and the CD go through the DAC on my CDP, Same amp, same volume, same speakers.

Methodology: Fleetwood Mac track started simultaneously on Spotify and CD. Button on the back of the CDP to switch sources.

Result: Spotify, whilst fine sounded incredibly hollow and weedy compared to CD which was warmer, more involving, more detail, more soundstage.

It wasn't even a closely-run thing, there were immediate differences that would be clear to absolutely anyone listening. I've done this on quite a few different albums and the result is always the same.

Congratulations, you and Al are clearly fine examples of Homo superior.

In reality, there are differences between the Ogg Vorbis files on Spotify and accurate rips of exactly the same disc, but they are relatively modest, impossible to pick on some material and usually benign, ie slight losses that do not draw attention to themselves.

The test that you ran is, sadly, meaningless, there are far too many variables in your comparison to be able to conclude anything of consequence.

Too many variables? There was only one variable and that was the source. Everything else was identical, switch directly from one to another, no time lags, switch back, switch again, switch back.

Large differences.

Well, there's the possibility that the levels were different and that the Spotify tracks were of different masters than the CD. People claim 'night and day' differences at even the most inocuous of changes, so a slight level discrepancy would appear as an obvious difference is quality.

Yes but less so if you have demoed a number of different titles, different genres. Unless Spotify comes as standard with the levels messed around with, does it? I've never changed any settings on Spotify except the volume which is set to max.

If you've never changed any settings in Spotify then you're probably still only hearing tracks played at 160kbps. Even with Spotify Premium you need to manually set the higher quality version first before Spotify uses the 320kbps tracks instead of the 160kbps versions and the difference between to two are quite easy to hear.

Out of interest what settings were you using for Spotify? Have a look in the preferences menu to see which check boxes are ticked? Did you have the 'High quality streaming' and 'Set the same volume level for all tracks' switched on?

I have. That wasn't an equalisation setting, that was on sign-up.

Anyway I'm not going to say it again as it's pointless. Feel free to come over, check my settings, listen, flick the button yourself, on any piece of music that I have a CD for that is also on Spotify...

Seriously guys, I'm listening to streamed radio at the moment which is great. If that was the original it would be even better.

 

[Alec]

So I paid for premium but didn't get it as I didn't fiddle with any settings? Good stuff!

Don't worry. You won't be able to hear the difference!!!

That's probably true, actually. Still, there's a principle at stake and...er...probably some not so small print I should have read.

I'm on the free one currently anyway. Sounds awesome

Pop round anytime and I'll show you the difference between a CD and 320. If normal Spotify sounds awesome to you then wait until you've heard how it can sound.

I had premium, so it would probably be lost on me, but thanks.

 

[Alec]

Pop round anytime and I'll show you the difference between a CD and 320.

Sort of assumes that Alec has never heard a CD before.

CD?! Pfffft. Sure, Daddio!

 

[JoelSim]

There is a huge difference in sound quality between a 320mbps file and a CD. I had Emily from Musical Fidelity round yesterday to demonstrate some new headphones and we tested the difference between CD and Spotify premium.

A/B test: both the Spotify file and the CD go through the DAC on my CDP, Same amp, same volume, same speakers.

Methodology: Fleetwood Mac track started simultaneously on Spotify and CD. Button on the back of the CDP to switch sources.

Result: Spotify, whilst fine sounded incredibly hollow and weedy compared to CD which was warmer, more involving, more detail, more soundstage.

It wasn't even a closely-run thing, there were immediate differences that would be clear to absolutely anyone listening. I've done this on quite a few different albums and the result is always the same.

Congratulations, you and Al are clearly fine examples of Homo superior.

In reality, there are differences between the Ogg Vorbis files on Spotify and accurate rips of exactly the same disc, but they are relatively modest, impossible to pick on some material and usually benign, ie slight losses that do not draw attention to themselves.

The test that you ran is, sadly, meaningless, there are far too many variables in your comparison to be able to conclude anything of consequence.

Too many variables? There was only one variable and that was the source. Everything else was identical, switch directly from one to another, no time lags, switch back, switch again, switch back.

Large differences.

Well, there's the possibility that the levels were different and that the Spotify tracks were of different masters than the CD. People claim 'night and day' differences at even the most inocuous of changes, so a slight level discrepancy would appear as an obvious difference is quality.

Yes but less so if you have demoed a number of different titles, different genres. Unless Spotify comes as standard with the levels messed around with, does it? I've never changed any settings on Spotify except the volume which is set to max.

If you've never changed any settings in Spotify then you're probably still only hearing tracks played at 160kbps. Even with Spotify Premium you need to manually set the higher quality version first hear the 320kbps tracks instead of the 160kbps versions and the difference between to two are quite easy to hear.

What settings were you using for Spotify? Have a look in the 'preferences' menu to see which check boxes are ticked? Did you have the 'High quality streaming' and 'Set the same volume level for all tracks' switched on?

Yes I have both of those. What you are suggesting is that 'high quality streaming' wouldn't make a difference...as CD is far higher quality than 320kbps? Therefore normal bitrate Spotify and 'High quality streaming' should also sound the same, no?

 

[steve_1979]

There is a huge difference in sound quality between a 320mbps file and a CD. I had Emily from Musical Fidelity round yesterday to demonstrate some new headphones and we tested the difference between CD and Spotify premium.

A/B test: both the Spotify file and the CD go through the DAC on my CDP, Same amp, same volume, same speakers.

Methodology: Fleetwood Mac track started simultaneously on Spotify and CD. Button on the back of the CDP to switch sources.

Result: Spotify, whilst fine sounded incredibly hollow and weedy compared to CD which was warmer, more involving, more detail, more soundstage.

It wasn't even a closely-run thing, there were immediate differences that would be clear to absolutely anyone listening. I've done this on quite a few different albums and the result is always the same.

Congratulations, you and Al are clearly fine examples of Homo superior.

In reality, there are differences between the Ogg Vorbis files on Spotify and accurate rips of exactly the same disc, but they are relatively modest, impossible to pick on some material and usually benign, ie slight losses that do not draw attention to themselves.

The test that you ran is, sadly, meaningless, there are far too many variables in your comparison to be able to conclude anything of consequence.

Too many variables? There was only one variable and that was the source. Everything else was identical, switch directly from one to another, no time lags, switch back, switch again, switch back.

Large differences.

Well, there's the possibility that the levels were different and that the Spotify tracks were of different masters than the CD. People claim 'night and day' differences at even the most inocuous of changes, so a slight level discrepancy would appear as an obvious difference is quality.

Yes but less so if you have demoed a number of different titles, different genres. Unless Spotify comes as standard with the levels messed around with, does it? I've never changed any settings on Spotify except the volume which is set to max.

If you've never changed any settings in Spotify then you're probably still only hearing tracks played at 160kbps. Even with Spotify Premium you need to manually set the higher quality version first before Spotify uses the 320kbps tracks instead of the 160kbps versions and the difference between to two are quite easy to hear.

Out of interest what settings were you using for Spotify? Have a look in the preferences menu to see which check boxes are ticked? Did you have the 'High quality streaming' and 'Set the same volume level for all tracks' switched on?

I have. That wasn't an equalisation setting, that was on sign-up.

Anyway I'm not going to say it again as it's pointless. Feel free to come over, check my settings, listen, flick the button yourself, on any piece of music that I have a CD for that is also on Spotify...

Seriously guys, I'm listening to streamed radio at the moment which is great. If that was the original it would be even better.

Do you have the 'High quality streaming' checkbox switched on and 'Set the same volume level for all tracks' switched off?

 

[steve_1979]

Yes I have both of those. What you are suggesting is that 'high quality streaming' wouldn't make a difference...as CD is far higher quality than 320kbps? Therefore normal bitrate Spotify and 'High quality streaming' should also sound the same, no?

I think you misunderstand what I mean. You have to change the settings in Spotify to 'High quality streaming' to hear the 320kbps versions.

Spotify with 'High quality streaming' switch on plays 320kbps files.

But Spotify with 'High quality streaming' switch off only plays 160kbps files.

The 320kbps files sound better than the 160kbps files and the difference between them is easily noticable. What setting are you using?

 

[JoelSim]

They are both ticked. Aaaaaaaaagggghhhhhhhh!

But don't tell anyone. :shhh:

 

[JoelSim]

Yes I have both of those. What you are suggesting is that 'high quality streaming' wouldn't make a difference...as CD is far higher quality than 320kbps? Therefore normal bitrate Spotify and 'High quality streaming' should also sound the same, no?

I think you misunderstand what I mean. You have to change the settings in Spotify to 'High quality streaming' to hear the 320kbps versions.

Spotify with 'High quality streaming' switch on plays 320kbps files.

But Spotify with 'High quality streaming' switch off only plays 160kbps files.

The 320kbps files sound better than the 160kbps files and the difference between them is easily noticable. What setting are you using?

OMG. How many times do I have to say it is ticked?

 

[steve_1979]

OMG. How many times do I have to say it is ticked?

I think we were both typing at the same time and had crossed posts. :type:

 

[JoelSim]

CD is 1411kbps.

Spotify is 320kbps.

Advertising spotify is 160kbps.

Yes, CD isn't 4.5 times as good, but it's better.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

The problem may be that joelsim has a top system which can highlight the differences in quality, which, no offence, all-in-ones under £2000 can't match.

 

[JoelSim]

The problem may be that joelsim has a top system which can highlight the differences in quality, which, no offence, all-in-ones under £2000 can't match.

I don't think ythat's the case. Maybe more obvious, but a £2k system would easily highlight this too.

It's not enough to stop your enjoyment of the music, that works even at 160 perfectly well of course, But a side-by-side comparison will illustrate the huge gap in absolute detail and involvement.

 

[steve_1979]

What you are suggesting is that 'high quality streaming' wouldn't make a difference...as CD is far higher quality than 320kbps? Therefore normal bitrate Spotify and 'High quality streaming' should also sound the same, no?

This is the bit of your post which confuses me.

Normal bit rate Spotify is only 160kbps. But with the 'High quality streaming' checkbox ticked it's 320kbps. So no they do not sound the same.

Anyway who cares? It's Friday night and time to listen to some music.

:cheers:

 

[JoelSim]

What you are suggesting is that 'high quality streaming' wouldn't make a difference...as CD is far higher quality than 320kbps? Therefore normal bitrate Spotify and 'High quality streaming' should also sound the same, no?

This is the bit of your post which confused me. Normal bit rate Spotify is only 160kbps. But with the 'High quality streaming' checkbox selected it's 320kbps. So no they do not sound the same.

Anyway who cares? It's Friday night and time to listen to some music.

:cheers:

This is exactly it. You hear the difference between 160 and 320. CD is 1411.

You are absolutely right though, Friday. Music. Wine. Music.

 

[Craig M.]

Given that Joels CD player could be making a right pigs ear of converting anything through its digital input, unless he is willing to put it properly to the test his contention that 320k through the inputs is worse than the CD is meaningless.

On the occasions I've compared 320k mp3 to flac (my own rips) being played on the same computer through a jitter immune dac, I've not heard any difference. And I'd wager my last system was more revealing than Joels. I have read instances of people passing an AB/X test of 320 v flac, but this involved someone training themselves to hear the artefacts and them only being audible on very certain tracks and very certain sounds on them tracks - a situation pretty far removed from just listening to music. I don't put any store on 99.9% of the instances were someone claims they can tell the difference.

I have no opinion on the Spotify debate as I don't use it.

 

[JoelSim]

Given that Joels CD player could be making a right pigs ear of converting anything through its digital input, unless he is willing to put it properly to the test his contention that 320k through the inputs is worse than the CD is meaningless.

On the occasions I've compared 320k mp3 to flac (my own rips) being played on the same computer through a jitter immune dac, I've not heard any difference. And I'd wager my last system was more revealing than Joels. I have read instances of people passing an AB/X test of 320 v flac, but this involved someone training themselves to hear the artefacts and them only being audible on very certain tracks and very certain sounds on them tracks - a situation pretty far removed from just listening to music. I don't put any store on 99.9% of the instances were someone claims they can tell the difference.

I have no opinion on the Spotify debate as I don't use it.

Craig man!

 

[altruistic.lemon]

So, in other words, Craig, you accept there's a difference and (with the right gear presumably) people can hear it? I do wonder, partly as I know there is at least one manufacturer who claims otherwise and also thinks the iphone is good as a source!

For me, with my setup - about £2500 - it's unmistakable. I stream BBC stuff too, but it isn't the same quality as a good CD, Blue Ray or Lossless (that's where it only cuts silences out, yes?) through my dac.

 

[JoelSim]

Right, the girl downstairs is out, which means no texts telling me to turn it down.

Testing 1,2,3...

 

[steve_1979]

Right, the girl downstairs is out, which means no texts telling me to turn it down.

Testing 1,2,3...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dvwd8Hyh-Y

 

[JoelSim]

Tune 1: Tracy Chapman - Across the Lines

On Spotify it sounds great. On CD it envelopes, everything is just so much deeper which makes Spotify sound a little tinny.

Now something else, different.