CD player v computer-based music

[Alec]

idc:Eddie Pound:

I hate to use price as an indicator of performance so take this with a pinch of salt...

As a DAC is half of a CD player, you can expect a DAC to perform as well as a CD player around twice as much (when used with lossless files).

So, can a PC be used as the other half of the CDP and act as a transport playing a CD realtime straight into a DAC...?

Not on my PC. Playing a CD in the drive sounds noticeably worse compared to playing the rip of the same CD.

 

[Gusboll]

Ketch:Gusboll:

WHF team - can we expect a test on all this sometime; i.e. comparing various cd players to various pc & dac set-ups?

I'd second that. We'd all appreciate a formal WHF test of PC vs CDP (as opposed to some half-baked Gadget show nonsense!).

Given all that has been said - any views WHF team?

 

[JoelSim]

Tarquinh:
Don't agree with Joel over some points, but he's right about supermarkets, with the honourable exception of Waitrose which shares its profits with its staff.

Supermarkets kill the high streets, force us into cars to drive to them, put hundreds out of work, foist their "standards" on suppliers always to the detriment of quality. Give me my local epicier any day. If you don't believe, take a trip to Paris and wander down rue lepic or rue d'abbesses in Montmartre. Now that's choice, not pretty packaging on harshly-lit supermarket shelves.

At long last. Thanks Tarquinh, I was beginning to think that Tesco had brainwashed everybody...

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

I would rip - it only takes a minute, unless you have your head in the sand like Joel.

Once it is on hard-drive there is such flexibility, like streaming all over the house and having the entire CD collection at your disposal without ever moving again.

 

[PJPro]

Great thread. Always enjoy a bit of Joel baiting.

What this thread has shown for me is the relatively sudden sea change in opinion. There was a time when the computer enthusiast was a lone voice on this forum. Ashley was one. An absent amphibian poster was another.

I also think Ashley makes a good point about the origins of music today. I doubt if there's any music you can buy that hasn't been recorded and/or remixed and produced on a PC.

Should we fear the future? I think not. Things are only going to get better. And as someone already pointed out, internet speeds are the limiting factor. The time will come when you won't own a music collection as such. It'll be on-line as a series of purchased files (available from your phone, car, PC, etc) or simply a monthly charge to listen to whatever you like. And the bitrates available will simply resign CDs to the bin (unlike vinyl which is analogue not digital).

And what about kit? I suspect there will be a move towards one box units with speakers (or active speakers) targeted at the mass market. However, the mass market do not buy separates today and I suspect the the enthusiast will always be catered for. So expect a myriad of DACs along with the usual amplifers, speakers, headphone amps, headphones, PSUs, etc, as well as high quality one box solutions. If there is money to be made, a service/product will be provided. So the enthusiast will have plenty to keep them busy....including, of course, software selection and tweaking...although I can't imagine Joel enjoying a read of my foobar2000 gui primer. ;-)

 

[Anonymous]

A good number of audiophiles consider Lynn to have made some wonderful high end CD players. The fact that such a company states on their website that their hard disk computer based player is better than any CD player says something for computer audio. I recall that What HiFi preferred audio played back from the hard disc of Naim's HDX player over the CD player too. And why not - it's all been pre error checked though whether those errors can make much of an audible difference or not I don't know - depends on the CD I guess. In a couple of years time hard discs will be replaced with solid state drives too - fewer moving parts; some would argue that could make an audible difference.

A PC or Mac (Mac easier out of the box) to an external DAC, with all your music ripped and error checked.... it's the future ... The likes of Lynn and Naim have been quick to jump on the bandwagon, they've probably got no choice. And those players will also have to drop in price since you can setup the same thing for a third of the price yourself (will challenge anyone who says otherwise), but control the whole lot with an iPod Touch at your fingers tips.

If you're feeling brave you can also build something that doesn't look like a computer and can look pretty cool or even high end. I could start a lengthy thread on this very subject on it's own .. Check out those wonderul A-Tech fabrication cases, or the Nexus Psile or the new Moneual 312, OrigenAE touch screen if you want to be really flash.

Everybody has their own opinion on the subject but I really think some high end manufacturers are going to have a tough time unless they adapt. Certainly in terms of sales of CD players.

And that's before you get to video too ... got a hi-def TV that won't display 24p without micro stutter/juddler? Don't worry, reclock the signal to 25p and smooth video prevails! Can a standalone BluRay player do that ..?

 

[JoelSim]

Octopo:I think Joel is saying with a one box set up you 'pick it off the shelf' meaning many people will have exactly the same sounding stereo system.

Quite right, and my comments have nothing to do with AVI and/or their Active speakers which I'm sure are very good.

I am not looking forward to the future listening tests though. This month we test the top 10 music machines. Next month we test the same 10 music machines. As we've had to close down our listening facilities because we only sell 5 copies a month, next month's test will take place in the reception at Cheshunt with special guest listener Terry Leahy.

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

If we don't embrace computer audio, the record companies won't deliver the quality we desire.

 

[idc]

Considering that this thread started just after lunch today and now has now 100 responses, is this a record for the forum? (And tonights Gadget Show has not even been mentioned!)

 

[PJPro]

Schbeemb:

If you're feeling brave you can also build something that doesn't look like a computer and can look pretty cool or even high end. I could start a lengthy thread on this very subject on it's own .. Check out those wonderul A-Tech fabrication cases, or the Nexus Psile or the new Moneual 312, OrigenAE touch screen if you want to be really flash.

Err. Yes please.

 

[PJPro]

PJPro:Schbeemb:

If you're feeling brave you can also build something that doesn't look like a computer and can look pretty cool or even high end. I could start a lengthy thread on this very subject on it's own .. Check out those wonderul A-Tech fabrication cases, or the Nexus Psile or the new Moneual 312, OrigenAE touch screen if you want to be really flash.

Err. Yes please.
But put it in computer based music.

 

[JoelSim]

Eddie Pound:
If we don't embrace computer audio, the record companies won't deliver the quality we desire.

I doubt they will for the tiny minority for whom it is important.

ÿ

 

[PJPro]

JoelSim:Eddie Pound:
If we don't embrace computer audio, the record companies won't deliver the quality we desire.

I doubt they will for the tiny minority for whom it is important.

ÿ

I'd be surprised if we don't see a bitrate war sooner or later. It's a marketing device.

 

[Anonymous]

JoelSim,

I see where you're coming from. But I think computer audio will affect sources rather than amps and speakers. Sure, we'll see some more active speakers, maybe with DAC's built in too, but when you consider the large number of DACs available to which a user can connect his/her Mac/PC, you'd still have many to test. Hopefully we'll see more professional audio moving over into hifi mags. One month 5 DACs in a roundup with the usual array of new bookshelf speakers in the £500 region, the next month another 5 professional DACs with a roundup of Active speakers at a certain price point. Much reading.

I started out with a cheap DAC, cost somewhere in the region of £100 - the KingRex UA-01 I think it was. Sound quality was pretty amazing for the price. Only when I started looking for an upgrade did I see the sheer number available.

HiFi choice recently did a DAC roundup which was an interesting read. What I though was most interesting though was the LITTLE difference they found between them considering the rather LARGE price difference between them. Cyrus look very expensive in that particular test while Cambridge Audio excelled with the DACMagic. (Cambridge Audio - sometimes thought of as Budget but often produced players that compared very well than those multiples of the pirce)

Reading a few copies of the likes of SoundonSound really opens up your eyes and ears.

 

[Anonymous]

Eddie - I completely agree with you.

At the moment, higher resolution (I mean higher than AAC) audio is only available from a few websites, with anything greater than CD quality a little harder to come by - well - seems to be a lot of classical and jazz at higher resolutions.

Mind you, there are also some fairly decent tracks at lower resolutions. I've heard some decent AAC's and ALAC's .. But most of all FLAC's I've downloaded from Boomkat have seriously impressed me.

I think a bitrate war is a real possibility.

 

[Anonymous]

Great to see a computer discussion under the hifi section of these forum walls.

 

[manicm]

Messiah:Eddie Pound:chebby:

Gusboll, do you realise there is a new Cyrus 8 XP d amplifier coming out very soon with built in DAC?,,,,,

http://www.cyrusaudio.com/cms_downloads/CyrusProductBrochure2009.pdf

It has Coax, USB and Optical connections.

Chebby,

The Cyrus amp is a good option but I'm not sure where it leaves their CD players. I expect the internal DAC is limited as to not step on the toes of the CDPs sonically.

Hopefully most audio companies to be featuring digital inputs by the time their next product ranges are out.

Myryad have a nice new Arcam Solo thing out now with two digital inputs.

Having spoken to a Cyrus rep about the amp he said the DAC was comparable to that in the CD6SE so I guess it is certainly not treading on the toes of the CD8SE. Other quotes from the MD of Cyrus have pointed to the new amps being a perfect partner for the CDXTSE.

Well I think it can step on the 8SE's toes if you like, the new Cyrus brochure states the DAC in the new 8XP amp is upgradeable to an even higher quality one - which should read very very good.

 

[Gusboll]

Schbeemb:Great to see a computer discussion under the hifi section of these forum walls.

Hi-Fi is all about high-quality sound reproduction is it not?

Whether it's on a 12" piece of plastic or within a metal box full of zero's and one's, I don't care as long as all my Califone albums sound EDITED BY MODS for sexual and drugs-related content

 

[Anonymous]

Gusbol,

Of course.

 

[manicm]

garethwd:Ive no doubt that lossless files can sound pretty darn good but if as some people are suggesting cd's wiil become a thing of the past it will be a sad day indeed! I want somthing real for my hard earned! I personally enjoy browsing through a record shop and coming home with a shiny new disk to stuff into CDP.. a much more enjoyable way of spending moneys imo

CDPs may die but I don't think there's a remote possibility of the physical CD dying anytime soon or in the medium term. And if CD sales are indeed falling then ironically this could be an opportunity for labels - if only they could see past their greedy noses:

What I mean is that since digital playback is becoming so popular why not extoll the virtues of pristine, uncompressed CD audio - there to rip on PC, and educate youth on sound quality as well - past 320k MP3s.

Ah but you can download FLACs etc I hear you say - well cheap broadband is still a problem in many countries still - and trust me when I tell you sods in the UK and US that you guys have cheap broadband.

 

[Anonymous]

Manicm - good post.

Do you mind me asking where you are based as, well, do we really have it that cheap ? Mine is £21 per month for unlimited phone calls and 8meg broadband. I'd assumed that was the norm in most places.

 

[Gusboll]

Well, all this has convinced me to try out some DACs but I would still be interested in hearing from other testers and the WHF team as to what they think - if they dare!.

Now, it's time I went to bed to hopefully dream of Kate Bush in all her lossless glory!

 

[JoelSim]

Gusboll:
Well, allÿthis hasÿconvinced me to try out some DACs but I would still be interested in hearing from other testers and the WHF team as to what they think - if they dare!.

Now,ÿit's time I went to bedÿto hopefully dream of Kate Bush in all her lossless glory!

ÿ

They are conspicuous by their absence, and unsurprisingly so.

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

JoelSim,

What do you mean by 'unsurprisingly so' ?

 

[manicm]

Schbeemb:

Manicm - good post.

Do you mind me asking where you are based as, well, do we really have it that cheap ? Mine is £21 per month for unlimited phone calls and 8meg broadband. I'd assumed that was the norm in most places.

I'm in South Africa, I pay the equivalent of 17 pounds (excluding the phone line rental) for a 2Gb cap!!!!!!! And I'm too embarassed to state my download speeds. For higher caps and higher speeds I would have to pay considerably more.