CD player v computer-based music

[The_Lhc]

garethwd:and i have to put up a noisy box under my tv!

No you don't, there's plenty of "silent" solutions, Sonos doesn't make any noise at all (no fans).

my cd doesnt very need the bios updating and drivers to be replaced and in general any arseing about, put in disk press play

Yup, don't think I've ever done that either, just pick up the controller, choose what I want to listen to, press play, END OFF!!!1!!lol, zort!

 

[Anonymous]

Why are people so desperate to convince the lossless is the only way to go? Does it really matter that much? like i said before both sound pretty dam good!

 

[Anonymous]

garethwd:Why are people so desperate to convince the lossless is the only way to go? Does it really matter that much? like i said before both sound pretty dam good!

That's the problem. People should stop worrying. Though when the time's right they'll know it's the right thing to do.

 

[Anonymous]

Why will it be the right thing to do? sounds ominious

 

[Anonymous]

garethwd:Why will it be the right thing to do? sounds ominious

It's not ominous but it will happen. What I was saying though is no one should be worrying about it. Enjoy.

 

[Anonymous]

garethwd:Why are people so desperate to convince the lossless is the only way to go? Does it really matter that much? like i said before both sound pretty dam good!

I am not sure that people are desperate to convince others that lossless is the only way to go, I think it is more a case defending the PC/Mac based lossless/DAC route against those people who criticise it but who themselves have not experienced the excellent sound quality which can be produced by a decent PC/MAC/DAC system. In other words, they appear to criticise it because of their prejudice, not first hand experience.

 

[Anonymous]

garethwd:Why are people so desperate to convince the lossless is the only way to go? Does it really matter that much? like i said before both sound pretty dam good!

I am not sure that people are desperate to convince others that lossless is the only way to go, I think it is more a case defending the PC/Mac based lossless/DAC route against those people who criticise it but who themselves have not experienced the excellent sound quality which can be produced by a decent PC/MAC/DAC system. In other words, they appear to criticise it because of their prejudice, not first hand experience.

 

[Anonymous]

It's not ominous but it will happen. What I was saying though is no one should be worrying about it. Enjoy.

Your probably right! but not for a good few years yet i hope

 

[Anonymous]

garethwd:Your probably right! but not for a good few years yet i hope

Here here.

 

[The_Lhc]

garethwd:Why are people so desperate to convince the lossless is the only way to go? Does it really matter that much? like i said before both sound pretty dam good!

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, you can do what you please and it won't make any difference to me, but I don't like statements that are presented as indisputable fact when they aren't. So when you say "now I have to put up with a noisy box under the TV to stream music" (your PS3), I'm simply pointing out that actually, you DON'T have to put up with that, because there are other, noiseless, solutions. Whether you choose to investigate them is an entirely different matter and not my business.

Same with the "I don't want a PC in my living room!" argument (not you in particular, I don't think you've ever said that). Fine, the PC doesn't need to be in the living room, mine isn't, it isn't even on the same floor as my hi-fi.

That's all I'm saying, I'm just not very good at saying it sometimes.

 

[Anonymous]

Just do whatever feels right. Whatever you choose you'll be catered for for many years yet.

 

[Anonymous]

the_lhc:
garethwd:Why are people so desperate to convince the lossless is the only way to go? Does it really matter that much? like i said before both sound pretty dam good!

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, you can do what you please and it won't make any difference to me, but I don't like statements that are presented as indisputable fact when they aren't. So when you say "now I have to put up with a noisy box under the TV to stream music" (your PS3), I'm simply pointing out that actually, you DON'T have to put up with that, because there are other, noiseless, solutions. Whether you choose to investigate them is an entirely different matter and not my business.

Same with the "I don't want a PC in my living room!" argument (not you in particular, I don't think you've ever said that). Fine, the PC doesn't need to be in the living room, mine isn't, it isn't even on the same floor as my hi-fi.

That's all I'm saying, I'm just not very good at saying it sometimes.

Of course there quite solutions to enable lossles playback in a year or so's time im considering getting myself a squeezbox and dac magic for just such a reason! But i think the CDP is still going be my favoured source for music.

To be honest those comments where mainly down to me just being awkward!

 

[Anonymous]

garethwd:]To be honest those comments where mainly down to me just being awkward!

Why do we bother?

 

[Anonymous]

There are some lovely cases available and you can most definately run them totally siltent. I'm not keen on my case, an easy build, near silent, but it looks like an 80s amp. Gotta change it now that I'm confident enough to build and play around tweaking etc.

Garethwd - computer audio doesn't always mean lossless.You don't have to rip your music to a lossless format, it can be uncompressed if you prefer. Hearing the difference between an uncompressed file and an AAC may be quite difficult unless the song is pretty complicated. With hard disk space so cheap I always rip to an uncompressed file format such as AIFF or WAV as I wish to keep all the bits from the original file. FLAC of course does this too really, it's variable bit rate, so where a track is quiet, the bit rate is lower.

Oldgringo - I'm not familiar with the Squeezebox I'm afraid. I'd be interested to see the results of your PC connected directly to your DAC outputting audio using something like MediaMonkey via ASIO. That'd be more interesting and closer I'm sure. What does the Squeezebox do with your audio ? When using the Airport Express iTunes converts whatever your playing to ALAC before streaming it to the Airport Express. Again though, whether there's an audible difference or not is down to the individual.

In my opinion sound quality is affected far more by the mastering process than anything else. Tired of studio's compressing the hell out of everything. Lucky I don't listen to much in the way of commercial music then really.

 

[Alec]

You could also just use well ripped mp3s, stop listening critically, and enjoy your music.

Oh no. silly me. Of course you could'nt. Shut my mouth, etc...

 

[idc]

My ideal situation would be have both. In the livingroom would be my signature system by the likes of Bang & Olufsen, just as a statement in design and to show off. Like some people have wine cellars I would have a den with the CDs in racks as if it were a music shop. It would have tour posters on the walls, my extensive music book collection and a PC based system to provide music whilst I browse through my music and books and participate in this forum.

 

[fatboyslimfast]

If and when you win the Lotto IDC - would you take a lodger?!?!?

 

[idc]

fatboyslimfast:If and when you win the Lotto IDC - would you take a lodger?!?!?

Any forum member would be welcome to visit and browse the in 'shop'. Bring your own music and then enjoy comparisons of CDP v computer based music. I could even get some fancy turntable and then find a Yamaha KX390 cassette deck like the one I had. With the play trim set up it could give the CDPs I had a run for their money. Oh, CD v PC v vinyl v cassette, hours of fun! I could set up some PCs and we could communicate via the forum so that there is no talking over the music. Actually, coffees and snacks would be good to, fatboyslimfast there could be a job for you!

P.S - I am idc, there is also an IDC out there, but he must be at sea at the moment as I don't think he has posted for a while.

 

[The_Lhc]

al7478: You could also just use well ripped mp3s, stop listening critically, and enjoy your music.

I really don't understand this argument, surely you'll enjoy the music more if it sounds better? No? If that's not the case, why spend any money on your hi-fi at all? Curry's sell mini systems for 20 quid, buy one of them and just tell yourself you're "enjoying the music".

Considering there's no added difficulty in ripping to loseless compared to ripping to mp3 why wouldn't you automatically pick the format that's going to sound better? Personally speaking if the sound quality of a track is noticably worse than others it stops me from enjoying the music, I guess other people don't react in the same way?

 

[chebby]

the_lhc:
al7478: You could also just use well ripped mp3s, stop listening critically, and enjoy your music.

I really don't understand this argument, surely you'll enjoy the music more if it sounds better? No? If that's not the case, why spend any money on your hi-fi at all? Curry's sell mini systems for 20 quid, buy one of them and just tell yourself you're "enjoying the music".

I understand what is being said. I have found a few CDs that sounded harsh played on my CDP and were still harsh when ripped in lossless and played via the DAC. When I ripped a few 'absolutely must have despite the quality' tracks in 256kbps AAC (VBR) a most strange thing happened.. they were enjoyable again!

I have also heard a similar thing happening with certain tracks I hated (usually because of OTT/badly recorded, 'smashy/crashy cymbals) that become very listenable via Radio Paradise at 192kbps AAC. (The Who? especially.) I don't know why. I don't really care.

This phenomena is not true of all CDs or all types of music. I would say 80 percent of my rips are lossless and the rest in 256kbps AAC.

 

[The_Lhc]

chebby:the_lhc:
al7478: You could also just use well ripped mp3s, stop listening critically, and enjoy your music.

I really don't understand this argument, surely you'll enjoy the music more if it sounds better? No? If that's not the case, why spend any money on your hi-fi at all? Curry's sell mini systems for 20 quid, buy one of them and just tell yourself you're "enjoying the music".

I understand what is being said. I have found a few CDs that sounded harsh played on my CDP and were still harsh when ripped in lossless and played via the DAC. When I ripped a few 'absolutely must have despite the quality' tracks in 256kbps AAC (VBR) a most strange thing happened.. they were enjoyable again!

I have also heard a similar thing happening with certain tracks I hated (usually because of OTT/badly recorded, 'smashy/crashy cymbals) that become very listenable via Radio Paradise at 192kbps AAC. (The Who? especially.) I don't know why. I don't really care.

This phenomena is not true of all CDs or all types of music. I would say 80 percent of my rips are lossless and the rest in 256kbps AAC.

I can see what you're saying there but even then you're still reinforcing my point but from the opposite end (hmmm, that came out wrong...). In this case you're downgrading the sample rate *because* it improves the quality of the sound, so you're still putting sound quality above the actual music, if you see what I mean?

 

[Alec]

the_lhc:chebby:the_lhc:

al7478: You could also just use well ripped mp3s, stop listening critically, and enjoy your music.

I really don't understand this argument, surely you'll enjoy the music more if it sounds better? No? If that's not the case, why spend any money on your hi-fi at all? Curry's sell mini systems for 20 quid, buy one of them and just tell yourself you're "enjoying the music".

I understand what is being said. I have found a few CDs that sounded harsh played on my CDP and were still harsh when ripped in lossless and played via the DAC. When I ripped a few 'absolutely must have despite the quality' tracks in 256kbps AAC (VBR) a most strange thing happened.. they were enjoyable again!

I have also heard a similar thing happening with certain tracks I hated (usually because of OTT/badly recorded, 'smashy/crashy cymbals) that become very listenable via Radio Paradise at 192kbps AAC. (The Who? especially.) I don't know why. I don't really care.

This phenomena is not true of all CDs or all types of music. I would say 80 percent of my rips are lossless and the rest in 256kbps AAC.

I can see what you're saying there but even then you're still reinforcing my point but from the opposite end (hmmm, that came out wrong...). In this case you're downgrading the sample rate *because* it improves the quality of the sound, so you're still putting sound quality above the actual music, if you see what I mean?

So you admit putting sound quality above music? If so, we are at odds anyway.

I was being a little mischevious, but my point was that actually, im not sure lossless does sound better, unless you are listening very critically. And if you are doing that, you are closer to an audiophile (a term that makes my skin crawl) than someone who likes music and just wants better than average reproduction.

Many do go and buy these cheap systems you speak of and are perfectly happy, but we all draw a line somewhere - even you - even if the only thing that makes us drawer the line is money.

We also all like to switch off sometimes, and the guy with the £20 system would find that so much easier. After my upcoming upgrade, it will be an effort for me to say "no, no more, for at least...". Or at least it would be harder, if i werent spending my maximum budget. The thought that id have to wait a long while to buy better on my income will relax me, im sure.

I kind of envey him.

 

[Anonymous]

Lossless is better than lossy but the quality of the original recording is the biggest factor.

The MP3 I'm listening to now of a fantastic recording walks all over a lossless version of some dynamically compressed chart music.

 

[Anonymous]

Interesting posts above about "sound quality" and "music". I think for me, it has to be music first as I would rather listen to a good song for example Diana Krall's Narrow Daylight on a cheap stereo than say Sid Vicious on a £30K system, no matter how big the sound stage, how good the separation, how tight the bass etc. I guess I am saying the bits of instruments and the vocals all add together to form something bigger and "better" than the sum of its parts - ie. the rthym and the music! Another excample would be someone loves a Picasso drawing not because of individual strokes of charcoal, but the totality of it all.

As people get more experienced and critical (in the good sense), they start becoming an audiophile(?) or art critic in my above examples and start examining and considering individual bits to the music or the drawing.

I do appreciate good sound quality from a good system but I personally would never be an audiophile in the sense that I check and consider the tightness of every strum of the guitar or fading of the drums. Music will always come first.

 

[Gusboll]

My thoughts at the start of this thread centred around the potential inferiority of the computer-based format, mainly due to hearing some horrible ripped stuff - admittedly not lossless or equivalent. Listening to most of Frank Zappa's stuff (in 320 or less) for instance is astonishingly bad to the point where I would rather listen to my cat's septic claw scraping down a blackboard.

The quality and taste of the music goes hand in hand as far as I'm concerned and it seems from the discussion had here that a pc/dac playing lossless or equivalent is a safe bet - certainly no-one has offered much of an objective alternative opinion.

Runs for cover