CD player v computer-based music

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John Duncan

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JoelSim:Couldn't agree more. I haven't had this much fun since I spent a year of my life ripping music and then got my computer nicked.

Whereas I have only 19.5 days worth of music (which is plenty), and it's backed up. See, if you'd only asked...
 

Gusboll

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JoelSim:ddias:

Fascinating and timely post for me. Gusboll I have pretty much the same source and amps as you so hopefully the following is of use.

I got myself a DACMagic and linked up the airport express to my Cyrus/PMC system *hoping* it was going to trounce my CD8X + PSX-R. It didn't, but that said the difference isn't night and day unless you're sitting and listening intently.

I have my CDs ripped to Apple Lossless and the convenience is appealing, as is the ability to resurrect old scratched CDs, and rip CD singles that I collected in the 90s.

In my experience, the Apple Lossless + Airtunes + DacMagic is not as good as the CD8X- PSX-R, the latter is more "real", 3D and musical sounding. I suspect the DAC on the Cyrus combined with the cleaner power is better than the cheapo DacMagic.

The future's definitely digital and I'm busily ripping my CD collection to lossless. And for those who say this digital revolution is taking the fun out of hifi, that's total absolute nonsense, I can't think of a time when digital entertainment/music/etc has been more exciting.

Couldn't agree more. I haven't had this much fun since I spent a year of my life ripping music and then got my computer nicked.

I'm a 40somethingblokewhoshopsdownbororoughmarketG20 with more hi-fi boxes than you can shake a dac at but even I've got an open mind. Why not you?
 

Alec

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JohnDuncan:JoelSim:Couldn't agree more. I haven't had this much fun since I spent a year of my life ripping music and then got my computer nicked. Whereas I have only 19.5 days worth of music (which is plenty), and it's backed up. See, if you'd only asked...

ROFL, i believe is the response the kids are using nowadays.

i sympathise tho Joel - i lost my music due to a dodgy pc and not backing up properly (i still have loads but from before i started to re-rip and standardise everything). Its an enormous pain, but i just prefer the hdd way of listening to the CD way.
 
A

Anonymous

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al7478: i just prefer the hdd way of listening to the CD way.

I agree. Sat in listening chair and "flicking" through music collection using iPhone remote gives more pleasure than obsessing about absolute quality. When services like spotify start streaming in higher quality then I doubt I'll bother buying CDs anymore. Don't fight the future!
 

Alec

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ddias:al7478: i just prefer the hdd way of listening to the CD way. I agree. Sat in listening chair and "flicking" through music collection using iPhone remote gives more pleasure than obsessing about absolute quality. When services like spotify start streaming in higher quality then I doubt I'll bother buying CDs anymore. Don't fight the future!

Did you see the article by John Harris in one of the weekend papers saying something similar about spotify?
 

Alec

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Tarquinh:There's no excuse for "doable," though.

Aparently there is tho.

Chebby take note
emotion-4.gif
 

Alec

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chebby:al7478:

Tarquinh:There's no excuse for "doable," though.

Aparently there is tho.

Chebby take note
emotion-4.gif


Doabolical, that's what I call it!

LOL!

Call it what you like, just dont over - and wrongly - use the word literally. That really grinds my gears!

Alastair Campbell - "my head literally exploded".

No it did not.

Anyyywayyy...
emotion-18.gif
 

JoelSim

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Gusboll:JoelSim:ddias:

Fascinating and timely post for me. Gusboll I have pretty much the same source and amps as you so hopefully the following is of use.

I got myself a DACMagic and linked up the airport express to my Cyrus/PMC system *hoping* it was going to trounce my CD8X + PSX-R. It didn't, but that said the difference isn't night and day unless you're sitting and listening intently.

I have my CDs ripped to Apple Lossless and the convenience is appealing, as is the ability to resurrect old scratched CDs, and rip CD singles that I collected in the 90s.

In my experience, the Apple Lossless + Airtunes + DacMagic is not as good as the CD8X- PSX-R, the latter is more "real", 3D and musical sounding. I suspect the DAC on the Cyrus combined with the cleaner power is better than the cheapo DacMagic.

The future's definitely digital and I'm busily ripping my CD collection to lossless. And for those who say this digital revolution is taking the fun out of hifi, that's total absolute nonsense, I can't think of a time when digital entertainment/music/etc has been more exciting.

Couldn't agree more. I haven't had this much fun since I spent a year of my life ripping music and then got my computer nicked.

I'm a 40somethingblokewhoshopsdownbororoughmarketG20 with more hi-fi boxes than you can shake a dac at but even I've got an open mind. Why not you?

I find it very funny that every time I throw a curved ball in, it creates absolute outrage.

Each to his own is what I say...but I do think that we will be moving towards a commodity market populated by large brands only over the next few years.
 

Alec

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JoelSim:I find it very funny that every time I throw a curved ball in, it creates absolute outrage.

Each to his own is what I say...but I do think that we will be moving towards a commodity market populated by large brands only over the next few years.

You're simply not throwing any kind of clever shaped ball that anyone who is already into hdd based audio cares about.

Tho if i were being mischievious i might wonder aloud whether thats just because the investment in time effort and money is too great to go back. But my point still stands.

EDIT - And do you know just how many companies have an interest in another comapny? The future is already here, in that respect.
 

Gusboll

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JoelSim:Gusboll:JoelSim:ddias:

Fascinating and timely post for me. Gusboll I have pretty much the same source and amps as you so hopefully the following is of use.

I got myself a DACMagic and linked up the airport express to my Cyrus/PMC system *hoping* it was going to trounce my CD8X + PSX-R. It didn't, but that said the difference isn't night and day unless you're sitting and listening intently.

I have my CDs ripped to Apple Lossless and the convenience is appealing, as is the ability to resurrect old scratched CDs, and rip CD singles that I collected in the 90s.

In my experience, the Apple Lossless + Airtunes + DacMagic is not as good as the CD8X- PSX-R, the latter is more "real", 3D and musical sounding. I suspect the DAC on the Cyrus combined with the cleaner power is better than the cheapo DacMagic.

The future's definitely digital and I'm busily ripping my CD collection to lossless. And for those who say this digital revolution is taking the fun out of hifi, that's total absolute nonsense, I can't think of a time when digital entertainment/music/etc has been more exciting.

Couldn't agree more. I haven't had this much fun since I spent a year of my life ripping music and then got my computer nicked.

I'm a 40somethingblokewhoshopsdownbororoughmarketG20 with more hi-fi boxes than you can shake a dac at but even I've got an open mind. Why not you?

I find it very funny that every time I throw a curved ball in, it creates absolute outrage.

Each to his own is what I say...but I do think that we will be moving towards a commodity market populated by large brands only over the next few years.

I find it quite funny that you think you cause outrage; my question was an effort to determine the reasons for your view.
 

JoelSim

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Gusboll:JoelSim:Gusboll:JoelSim:ddias:

Fascinating and timely post for me. Gusboll I have pretty much the same source and amps as you so hopefully the following is of use.

I got myself a DACMagic and linked up the airport express to my Cyrus/PMC system *hoping* it was going to trounce my CD8X + PSX-R. It didn't, but that said the difference isn't night and day unless you're sitting and listening intently.

I have my CDs ripped to Apple Lossless and the convenience is appealing, as is the ability to resurrect old scratched CDs, and rip CD singles that I collected in the 90s.

In my experience, the Apple Lossless + Airtunes + DacMagic is not as good as the CD8X- PSX-R, the latter is more "real", 3D and musical sounding. I suspect the DAC on the Cyrus combined with the cleaner power is better than the cheapo DacMagic.

The future's definitely digital and I'm busily ripping my CD collection to lossless. And for those who say this digital revolution is taking the fun out of hifi, that's total absolute nonsense, I can't think of a time when digital entertainment/music/etc has been more exciting.

Couldn't agree more. I haven't had this much fun since I spent a year of my life ripping music and then got my computer nicked.

I'm a 40somethingblokewhoshopsdownbororoughmarketG20 with more hi-fi boxes than you can shake a dac at but even I've got an open mind. Why not you?

I find it very funny that every time I throw a curved ball in, it creates absolute outrage.

Each to his own is what I say...but I do think that we will be moving towards a commodity market populated by large brands only over the next few years.

I find it quite funny that you think you cause outrage; my question was an effort to determine the reasons for your view.

The reason for my view is that I find the whole downloading/ripping malarky a false economy, and is the very last thing I want to be doing in my spare time when I'm not working or looking after the kids.
 

Alec

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JoelSim:Gusboll:JoelSim:Gusboll:JoelSim:ddias:

Fascinating and timely post for me. Gusboll I have pretty much the same source and amps as you so hopefully the following is of use.

I got myself a DACMagic and linked up the airport express to my Cyrus/PMC system *hoping* it was going to trounce my CD8X + PSX-R. It didn't, but that said the difference isn't night and day unless you're sitting and listening intently.

I have my CDs ripped to Apple Lossless and the convenience is appealing, as is the ability to resurrect old scratched CDs, and rip CD singles that I collected in the 90s.

In my experience, the Apple Lossless + Airtunes + DacMagic is not as good as the CD8X- PSX-R, the latter is more "real", 3D and musical sounding. I suspect the DAC on the Cyrus combined with the cleaner power is better than the cheapo DacMagic.

The future's definitely digital and I'm busily ripping my CD collection to lossless. And for those who say this digital revolution is taking the fun out of hifi, that's total absolute nonsense, I can't think of a time when digital entertainment/music/etc has been more exciting.

Couldn't agree more. I haven't had this much fun since I spent a year of my life ripping music and then got my computer nicked.

I'm a 40somethingblokewhoshopsdownbororoughmarketG20 with more hi-fi boxes than you can shake a dac at but even I've got an open mind. Why not you?

I find it very funny that every time I throw a curved ball in, it creates absolute outrage.

Each to his own is what I say...but I do think that we will be moving towards a commodity market populated by large brands only over the next few years.

I find it quite funny that you think you cause outrage; my question was an effort to determine the reasons for your view.

The reason for my view is that I find the whole downloading/ripping malarky a false economy, and is the very last thing I want to be doing in my spare time when I'm not working or looking after the kids.

And we all respect that view, and do'nt step in to poo poo it every time you express it.
 
A

Anonymous

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Hello, can someone help. Some time ago, I wanted to reduce the amount of clutter in my lounge. When I say clutter I mean Stereo, CD's etc. I have a very pleasing 40" LCD, a Sony 1200 receiver and Monitor Audio surround sound speakers. Now personally, I think this is enough to have in a family lounge of approx size 20" x 13".On removal of the stereo we ripped all of our CD's on to a hard drive in 'Loseless' and mp3 formats. I then purchased a Logitech Jukebox. Which basically sents the music from the PC/Laptop hard drive to my receiver. Well, it works, but not brilliantly. The link is often interrupted which gets annoying after a while. I have read reviews about the new Logitech squeezebox and that doesn't seem to be much better. I have looked at other music storage/player devices and find what they can and cant do, quite confusing. I am begining to believe now, that what I require is a Hard drive device that plugs straight into my Sony 7 channel receiver and not rely on Wifi or similar. I dont want multi room, I dont want it to surf the internet. I just want it to store music safely and play at a decent quality through my amplifier. The old Hermstedt Hifidelio or the new Niam HDX appear to have been the only answer of late. Problem being is that the Hermstedt is no longer available and the Naim is over £4K which is a little accessive. Does anyone know of any such equipment to do this very simple task well. Thanks
 

manicm

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ddias:

Fascinating and timely post for me. Gusboll I have pretty much the same source and amps as you so hopefully the following is of use.

I got myself a DACMagic and linked up the airport express to my Cyrus/PMC system *hoping* it was going to trounce my CD8X + PSX-R. It didn't, but that said the difference isn't night and day unless you're sitting and listening intently.

I have my CDs ripped to Apple Lossless and the convenience is appealing, as is the ability to resurrect old scratched CDs, and rip CD singles that I collected in the 90s.

In my experience, the Apple Lossless + Airtunes + DacMagic is not as good as the CD8X- PSX-R, the latter is more "real", 3D and musical sounding. I suspect the DAC on the Cyrus combined with the cleaner power is better than the cheapo DacMagic.

The future's definitely digital and I'm busily ripping my CD collection to lossless. And for those who say this digital revolution is taking the fun out of hifi, that's total absolute nonsense, I can't think of a time when digital entertainment/music/etc has been more exciting.

Ok, just using iTunes on my Vista laptop to rip, I can categorically state AIFF sounds better than ALAC (Apple Lossless), the latter to me sounds a bit smoother but less open and transparent. Why not rip one of your favourite CDs to test - I think your Cyrus might then get a fright
emotion-1.gif
 
T

the record spot

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Largely the quality of what you hear won't be so much defined by the DAC as by the quality of the recording, production and subsequent mastering.

The train wreck that was the 2006 Genesis 1976-1982 boxset in SACD which was meant to be a highlight in terms of sound quality was a mashed over compressed disaster area.

Bang on about digital till the cows come home and the likes of Ashley from AVI can spout forth for as long about computer based music being the mutts dinglies, if the underlying content on the source file is a load of old cack, it blows the theory out of the water from the word go.

Me? When it comes to digital, I wholeheartedly recommend "AAD".
 

respe

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I use a computer based audio solution in my work space, and find the ease of use and convieniance great for that environment, I have also heard computer audio that can match or better the Rega Saturn CD player I use. I have not, however heard a computer audio solution built for less then the cost of the Saturn that can match it. Computer/streamed music may very well be the future, but it has a way to go before it get's a welcome into my listening room. Given that you need to rip, store, then back up all your music files, plus somewhere to keep the original software it is not particularly space saving, you just need the space in different places. You also need to keep in mind that although the NAS devices that are on the market run the current generations of servers, you can bet that as the software bloats, they will not run the later editions.

The enthusiast of computer audio often champion its ease of use, and how quickly you can flick from track to track, artist to artist etc, view the album art etc.

In my case I do not listen in that way, I tend to choose the album I want to hear, rather than a single track, and find album art on remotes far too small to be of any use. (I do not have, nor do I wish to have) a TV in my listening room, its for music thanks not TV or movies.

I also wonder how much of the interest is a boys toys thing, and we do it because we can, just from interest, how many of the users of the streaming solution families could put the system back together if it crashed while you were away. Strange question maybe, but all my family use the deck, radio, and CD player, and if a computer based streaming system went down, would be music-less until I could fix it.

I am also becoming increasingly convinced that while to me, listening to music is a immersive thing, that to a increasing number of people music is more about back ground to doing something else, and all that is required is instant choice.

It concerns me, that with the ever increasing percentage of music bought by download in compressed lossy formats, that we will be faced with that as the only choice on large swathes of music. When a £20 hi-fi is voted as the best, I-pod type things dominate the market, you can see it coming.
 

The_Lhc

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the record spot:Largely the quality of what you hear won't be so much defined by the DAC as by the quality of the recording, production and subsequent mastering.

The train wreck that was the 2006 Genesis 1976-1982 boxset in SACD which was meant to be a highlight in terms of sound quality was a mashed over compressed disaster area.

Bang on about digital till the cows come home and the likes of Ashley from AVI can spout forth for as long about computer based music being the mutts dinglies, if the underlying content on the source file is a load of old cack, it blows the theory out of the water from the word go.

Can't argue with that, but that's not a criticism of "Computer based music" (can't we get another name for this, it sounds so dorky!), that issue applies to all forms of recording, so you said above SACD, most people are ripping from CDs, so if this recording issue applies to a ripped piece of music it's going to apply to the original CD as well. Some of the worst recordings I have are on vinyl, the 80s was a bad time for vinyl but I bought a brand new album a month or so ago which sounds worse than anything I've got from the 80s.

The fact that some albums are recorded or mastered badly is no reason to criticise CBM and to do so is clearly unfair.
 

The_Lhc

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respe: I use a computer based audio solution in my work space, and find the ease of use and convieniance great for that environment, I have also heard computer audio that can match or better the Rega Saturn CD player I use. I have not, however heard a computer audio solution built for less then the cost of the Saturn that can match it. Computer/streamed music may very well be the future, but it has a way to go before it get's a welcome into my listening room. Given that you need to rip, store, then back up all your music files, plus somewhere to keep the original software it is not particularly space saving, you just need the space in different places. You also need to keep in mind that although the NAS devices that are on the market run the current generations of servers, you can bet that as the software bloats, they will not run the later editions.

Err, I'm afraid you CAN'T bet that at all (well you could, but you'll lose). Why? because some solutions, indeed some would say the best solution (WHF for one), doesn't even use server-side software. Besides that NAS devices will increase in their ability to run onboard software, some NAS's on the market now have more RAM than the PC I'm using to write this post on, that will only increase as components get cheaper and more efficient.

The enthusiast of computer audio often champion its ease of use, and how quickly you can flick from track to track, artist to artist etc, view the album art etc.

In my case I do not listen in that way, I tend to choose the album I want to hear, rather than a single track, and find album art on remotes far too small to be of any use.

I'm not entirely sure why you need the album art to listen to the album?

(I do not have, nor do I wish to have) a TV in my listening room, its for music thanks not TV or movies.

So, I do have a TV in my listening room but it's never on when I'm listening to music.

I also wonder how much of the interest is a boys toys thing, and we do it because we can,

Are you trying to suggest that "normal" hi-fi is NOT a boys toys thing at least in part? Yes you've got to listen to the music eventually but you've only got to look at the ratio of "I was listening to a great album the other day" threads to "TELL ME WHAT TO BUY NOW!!!" threads to see that it's the gear that most people are in this hobby for, even if they won't admit it to themselves. In fact I'd say the same thing about most "men's hobbies/sports/games" I'm well aware that one of the reasons I like golf so much is because the gear is constantly updated and looks great, the design of clubheads now is fantastic! I'm 35, 5 years ago I bought a BMX, do I ride it? No, I spend more time looking at it because it's just a fantastic piece of design, I think the Bike in general is a design classic, even though I rarely ride them. Am I nuts? Possibly but most of the conversations I have with friends tend to suggest that I'm pretty normal really. For a bloke...

just from interest, how many of the users of the streaming solution families could put the system back together if it crashed while you were away. Strange question maybe, but all my family use the deck, radio, and CD player, and if a computer based streaming system went down, would be music-less until I could fix it.

I don't know my system has never crashed, if it did it would be the old turn it off turn it back on again fix. I could fix the PC if it went wrong but if the Sonos failed I'd have to get on to their tech support myself (which is excellent apparently, I've never had to use it though), however I've never heard of a Sonos system crashing, so I don't think it's a relevant question.

I am also becoming increasingly convinced that while to me, listening to music is a immersive thing, that to a increasing number of people music is more about back ground to doing something else, and all that is required is instant choice.

A little from column A, a little from column B, doesn't matter either way, my system can do both, I know I don't need a CD in machine to be spinning in order to listen "immersively" though.

It concerns me, that with the ever increasing percentage of music bought by download in compressed lossy formats,

I think you'd find the ratio of lossy to lossless downloads available is already starting to move to the lossless side (although it hasn't overtaken by any stretch of the imagination yet), the number of devices that now support FLAC, and barely even mention if (I just found out the other week that the Pioneer SC-LX81 amp can handle FLAC, it's not mentioned anywhere except deep in the manual!) because it's now almost "normal" or a required feature is increasing all the time.

Having said all that I don't download music anyway, if I like something I buy the CD and rip it, solves any problems about the availability of loseless formats...

that we will be faced with that as the only choice on large swathes of music. When a £20 hi-fi is voted as the best, I-pod type things dominate the market, you can see it coming.

I think it was earlier in this thread where I went into great detail about why this isn't the case, memory is getting cheaper and larger all the time, sooner or later the storage capacity of portable devices will get to the point where there won't be any need for lossy formats.
 
A

Anonymous

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Just to put a slightly different take on things. I have my Meridian 206 CD player in storage now and have ripped 50 CD's onto the Hard drive of my Sony 970, which also has a built in freeview tuner.

Now this in linked (of course) by HDMI directly to my Onkyo 875 which has Burr Brown DAC's in it, which are one of the best DAC's made.

Sound wise there is NO DIFFERENCE on the A/B comparisons that I made. I wasn't expecting that at all. I also have my I Tunes ripped onto the PS3, and they whilst acceptable are not as open and detailed.

How many of you listen to the radio?
The freeview broadcasts are excellent, as good as anything I have ever heard played through the Sony 970 which I find has a far better tuner in it than the TV.

Perhaps I am old fashioned as I still prefer to buy my albums on CD rather than download them off the internet, but now I rather rip them onto a hard wired hard drive which plays on my system.
 
A

Anonymous

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respe:... I have not, however heard a computer audio solution built for less then the cost of the Saturn that can match it....

Given that you need to rip, store, then back up all your music files, plus somewhere to keep the original software it is not particularly space saving, you just need the space in different places.

You also need to keep in mind that although the NAS devices that are on the market run the current generations of servers, you can bet that as the software bloats, they will not run the later editions.

I also wonder how much of the interest is a boys toys thing, and we do it because we can, just from interest, how many of the users of the streaming solution families could put the system back together if it crashed while you were away. Strange question maybe, but all my family use the deck, radio, and CD player, and if a computer based streaming system went down, would be music-less until I could fix it.

I am also becoming increasingly convinced that while to me, listening to music is a immersive thing, that to a increasing number of people music is more about back ground to doing something else, and all that is required is instant choice.

It concerns me, that with the ever increasing percentage of music bought by download in compressed lossy formats, that we will be faced with that as the only choice on large swathes of music. When a £20 hi-fi is voted as the best, I-pod type things dominate the market, you can see it coming.

Respe, you have raised some valid points above, I will deal with them in turn:

My preliminary point is that a lot of homes already have a PC/MAC and some sort of network; streaming data from the HDD to a DAC either via USB or wirelessly (if there is a WiFi network) is easily done and is IMHO same as the transport mechanism of a CD player. If people don't want to use a DAC and are not fussy about SQ, they can just connect the amp to the computer's headphone socket via phono leads if the two are close enough together. Options...

I compared my £200 DACMagic to a friend's £900 Cyrus CDP and we could not really tell the difference. Whilst the DACMagic may not be equal to or better than the sound quality of a CDP costing in excess of £1000 (because of the better quality of the DAC chips used in more expensive CDPs), I firmly believe that a DAC using the same chip or chips in dual configuration as in a CDP will be cheaper because one will not be paying for the transport mechansim. I am investigating a Benchmark DAC (about £800) and my research tells me that it can compete quite comfortably with CDPs or two-box CD Transport/DAC costing well in excess of £2000.

Backing up CDs and music data onto external hard drives is now a habit and is scheduled to happen automatically, just as one already backs up computer data in the usual way so no extra effort or costs involved. If I damage a CD, I still have the data. I don't use a NAS, see no need for it at the moment.

It is not a boys' toys thing for me. As for members of my family being left music-less if my laptop goes up in smoke, they won't! Most if not all homes have more than one music source. In mine, there are two other laptops with the same iTunes library plus their own iTunes libraries, PS3, Xbox, DVD players, mini-hifi, radios and Freeview radio all over the house plus a boombox in the bathroom, all these are capable of playing CDs or music plus they also have iPods and they know how to plug those into the Apple Docks attached to the amps.

It is about convenience, I have all my music on my laptop and most of it on my iPod Touch and MP3 copies on my iPhone for commuting. I can take my laptop or iPod Touch to my office where I can stream music to my second system either wirelessly via Airport Express to external DAC or via the Dock, heaven! I don't have to carry dozens of CDs with me, and it is also about quality as the music sounds wonderful.

Sometimes, music is just background, and other times, I sit down with a glass of wine, choose an album from iTunes, shut all doors and windows and immerse.

I do download music but keep the bitrate to at least 256/320 kbps, the files sound scarily close to CD quality. But normally I buy and rip CDs to Apple Lossless and cannot tell the difference between streaming that and the original CD.

To each his own I guess.
 
T

the record spot

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the_lhc:
Can't argue with that, but that's not a criticism of "Computer based music" (can't we get another name for this, it sounds so dorky!), that issue applies to all forms of recording, so you said above SACD, most people are ripping from CDs, so if this recording issue applies to a ripped piece of music it's going to apply to the original CD as well. Some of the worst recordings I have are on vinyl, the 80s was a bad time for vinyl but I bought a brand new album a month or so ago which sounds worse than anything I've got from the 80s.

The fact that some albums are recorded or mastered badly is no reason to criticise CBM and to do so is clearly unfair.

If you can point out where I said that CBM could be criticised on this point in isolation...I'll just go put the kettle on in the meantime. And maybe prepare the dinner...!!
emotion-5.gif
 

The_Lhc

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the record spot:the_lhc:
Can't argue with that, but that's not a criticism of "Computer based music" (can't we get another name for this, it sounds so dorky!), that issue applies to all forms of recording, so you said above SACD, most people are ripping from CDs, so if this recording issue applies to a ripped piece of music it's going to apply to the original CD as well. Some of the worst recordings I have are on vinyl, the 80s was a bad time for vinyl but I bought a brand new album a month or so ago which sounds worse than anything I've got from the 80s.

The fact that some albums are recorded or mastered badly is no reason to criticise CBM and to do so is clearly unfair.

If you can point out where I said that CBM could be criticised on this point in isolation...I'll just go put the kettle on in the meantime. And maybe prepare the dinner...!!
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Don't try and be clever, let's have a look at what you said:
the record spot:Largely
the quality of what you hear won't be so much defined by the DAC as by
the quality of the recording, production and subsequent mastering.

The
train wreck that was the 2006 Genesis 1976-1982 boxset in SACD which
was meant to be a highlight in terms of sound quality was a mashed over
compressed disaster area.

Bang on about digital till the cows
come home and the likes of Ashley from AVI can spout forth for as long
about computer based music being the mutts dinglies, if the underlying
content on the source file is a load of old cack, it blows the theory
out of the water from the word go. Now read that last paragraph and tell me it doesn't make the implication that CBM isn't going to sound as good as CD (or anything else). Specifically "it blows the theory out of the water from the word go". You've clearly tried to use the fact that bad recordings exist to suggest that CBM isn't worth trying. But it doesn't mean that at all does it? Nobody has ever said that CBM will cure the problem of badly recorded material. All it means is you have to have exactly the same consideration for your source material as you do with CD, vinyl, SACD or any other format. And if that isn't what you were implying, then what has your comment got to do with this topic? Nothing really, you're just stating the obvious, so what was the point of making it? I don't get why some people are so rabidly anti-CBM, to the point where they try to make up negatives out of thin air. If you do it right the bistream to the DAC will be identical to CD, therefore the analogue output to the amp will be exactly the same as CD. With the exception of the initial ripping time all the other criticisms that people have tried to bring up here can be discounted, provided you're willing to spend a bit of money, but honestly, when has THAT ever been an issue for hi-fi enthusiasts?
 
T

the record spot

Guest
You know, I lose count recently of the number of times that I've openly said in this forum that - hey! - I have an iPod! I use a laptop for iTunes! I'm anti-CBM??? LOL, you've led a sheltered life if you think I'm anti-iPod and the like. I don't use it at home for several reasons - I already get excellent sound quality from my existing hifi (see signature line below), I don't want additional boxes with attendant wires and a laptop running all day with the babies now getting active, plus I enjoy having the product - CD or vinyl to hand - along with the physical act of putting stuff on, selecting it from the rack, etc. Personally, I think those make valid reasons for my choice.

As for my comments re: Ashley's previous posts, AVI have gone down the road to produce products that are geared towards that market. Hell, Ashley posts to the effect that all you need are a laptop, a DAC and away you go, whilst berating audiophiles (conveniently forgetting those who stumped up for his company's Lab Series kit at £1500 a pop would probably have been just that in some cases). Yep, sure, away you go, the route to great music. Er, no, pitches like that only serve to remind me of the old CD strapline "perfect sound forever". Moreso with digital you need a decent mastering and production.

Anyway, to my point - why are you being so confrontational? Are you so blinkered by your view you've no width to accommodate mine? "Make up negatives out of thin air"? LOL, please...

Do point out, incidentally, where I said the issues affecting digital were applicable in isolation to any other format. You won't be able to because there isn't one. Having been listening to music on a variety of formats since the late 1960s I think I'm reasonably well versed to work out that we're supplied with the means to enjoy music to a higher standard now than ever before. The convenience and degree of quality open to us now is unparalleled.

All I'm saying is it won't make the difference you hope for unless you have a decent recording to start off with. It's not difficult. Unless that's what you're trying to do of course - you don't need to defend CBM to me.

In my view, it is horses for courses, play what you like on what you like. Doesn't mean one can't offer up a criticism on some aspects of the medium however, particularly when it is being pitched in the way it often is.
 
T

the record spot

Guest
the_lhc:

You've clearly tried to use the fact that bad recordings exist to suggest that CBM isn't worth trying.

I just spotted this; no I didn't - only in your mind. And you're wrong. There's a vast gulf in the logic between making a criticism and then what you're saying here. Miles off in fact; it doesn't even feature on the radar.
 

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