CD player v computer-based music

[Gusboll]

Lots of discussions been going on re the pros and cons of both formats, especially when it comes to convenience, storage etc but what I still don't understand is the whole sound quality issue.

Lots of posts saying that pc based stuff with an appropriate DAC is just as good as a CDP, but are we talking about all CDPs seeing as there are units out there for thousands of quid?

G

 

[idc]

The general opinion is that PC and DAC will perform to a £1000 CDP, and a Dell Inspiron and Beresford DAC can be had new for half that.

 

[JoelSim]

idc:The general opinion is that PC and DAC will perform to a £1000 CDP, and a Dell Inspiron and Beresford DAC can be had new for half that.

Utter rubbish. How can a computer using millions of sausage factory churned-out components, and having paid no attention to any of the details like eliminating interference inside, damping various important components etc compare directly to something that's made for the purpose.

 

[idc]

JoelSim:

idc:The general opinion is that PC and DAC will perform to a £1000 CDP, and a Dell Inspiron and Beresford DAC can be had new for half that.

Utter rubbish. How can a computer using millions of sausage factory churned-out components, and having paid no attention to any of the details like eliminating interference inside, damping various important components etc compare directly to something that's made for the purpose.

I asked in a previous post does the computer make any difference to the sound of an ipod and the unanimous agreement was no, it just contains the music files and the digital output to an ipod is the same no matter what computer is used. So surely the same is true with PC to DAC and it is the DAC that 'makes' the sound?

 

[Gusboll]

So you're saying that the 'Transport' is of little or no consequence when it comes to digital sources?

WHF team - can we expect a test on all this sometime; i.e. comparing various cd players to various pc & dac set-ups?

 

[John Duncan]

JoelSim:
idc:The general opinion is that PC and DAC will perform to a £1000 CDP, and a Dell Inspiron and Beresford DAC can be had new for half that.

Utter rubbish. How can a computer using millions of sausage factory churned-out components, and having paid no attention to any of the details like eliminating interference inside, damping various important components etc compare directly to something that's made for the purpose.

I dunno, but it does, cos I tried it.

 

[idc]

Gusboll:

So you're saying that the 'Transport' is of little or no consequence when it comes to digital sources?

Hi Gusboll, yes, my understanding and limited experience is that the computer has no bearing on the final sound, in the same way as a CD itself has no bearing on the final sound. Both just contain the digital information that the DAC needs to convert into the analogue signal, whether that is the one in an ipod, CDP or in a stand alone DAC.

 

[jaxwired]

idc:Gusboll:

So you're saying that the 'Transport' is of little or no consequence when it comes to digital sources?

Hi Gusboll, yes, my understanding and limited experience is that the computer has no bearing on the final sound, in the same way as a CD itself has no bearing on the final sound. Both just contain the digital information that the DAC needs to convert into the analogue signal, whether that is the one in an ipod, CDP or in a stand alone DAC.

I reluctantly have to agree with IDC for a change. The computer is just delivering a stream of digital content. It is not vulnerable to degradation the way an analog signal is.

 

[Anonymous]

Gusboll:

WHF team - can we expect a test on all this sometime; i.e. comparing various cd players to various pc & dac set-ups?

I'd second that.

We'd all appreciate a formal WHF test of PC vs CDP (as opposed to some half-baked Gadget show nonsense!).

 

[Anonymous]

Gusboll:

Lots of posts saying that pc based stuff with an appropriate DAC is just as good as a CDP, but are we talking about all CDPs seeing as there are units out there for thousands of quid?

It's all relative really, my Benchmark is supposed to be able to give £2000 CD players a run for their money (although I've never directly compared it to CD players in this price range) but it's all subjective, you may prefer the sound of a £500 CD player to the sound of a £3000 DAC.

 

[The_Lhc]

You can compare CD Transports with other CD transports, because they're doing the same thing, but you can't really compare to a PC (in terms of functionality, obviously you can compare the sound) because a PC has the luxury of not having to read the cd and play it in real time. When you rip a CD to a PC the PC can re-read the CD as many times as it likes in order to get the actual data off the disc, unlike a transport where it has to get the data off quickly and any time it can't read the data has to guess what's there.

That doesn't happen on a PC (or at least to a far lesser extent), so you end up with much more accurate data. Then it's just a case of passing that data to a DAC and if you use the same DAC with each source whichever data is the more accurate should sound better.

Naturally this is talking about streaming previously ripped data from a comupter's HDD, usually via some kind of remote media streamer (sonos for example), so there's no question of interference from the PC's internal components, nobody would be idiotic enough to put a CD in a PC and then try to play it in real-time directly to a DAC would they, because that's just stupid...

 

[chebby]

JoelSim:Utter rubbish. How can a computer using millions
of sausage factory churned-out components, and having paid no attention
to any of the details like eliminating interference inside, damping
various important components etc compare directly to something that's
made for the purpose.

Your incredulity does not invalidate the fact of high-quality replay via computer and DAC.

Why would people - many who have already invested substantial amounts of money in audiophile CD players - perversely turn their back on that method just to upset 'traditionalists' on a hifi forum?

What is more likely?

(a) That in fact - for those people - lossless replay via computer and DAC is a superior means

or...

(b) We just enjoy pulling your leg (joined - in the conspiracy - by numerous manufacturers of DACs and other reputable companies like Naim and Cyrus and Musical Fidelity and Meridian and now most of the Hifi press.)

 

[Anonymous]

JoelSim:
idc:The general opinion is that PC and DAC will perform to a £1000 CDP, and a Dell Inspiron and Beresford DAC can be had new for half that.

Utter rubbish. How can a computer using millions of sausage factory churned-out components, and having paid no attention to any of the details like eliminating interference inside, damping various important components etc compare directly to something that's made for the purpose.

I do wish you would research an answer without posting such an ignorant outburst, remenber its just 0s and 1s,

We all know that you don't like computer based Hifi, no one is forcing you to use are they, its all a matter of choice, the op was just asking a question..............

 

[Anonymous]

MENISCUS:JoelSim:
idc:The general opinion is that PC and DAC will perform to a £1000 CDP, and a Dell Inspiron and Beresford DAC can be had new for half that.

Utter rubbish. How can a computer using millions of sausage factory churned-out components, and having paid no attention to any of the details like eliminating interference inside, damping various important components etc compare directly to something that's made for the purpose.

I do wish you would research an answer without posting such an ignorant outburst, remenber its just 0s and 1s,

We all know that you don't like computer based Hifi, no one is forcing you to use are they, its all a matter of choice, the op was just asking a question..............

Come on, you should be used to Joels sly digs by now. Plus the fact he is secretly looking into a server based system himself.

 

[Gusboll]

Ok, so for the computer-based music fans amongst you, in your opinion if I was going to upgrade in the future and go down the lossless/pc/dac route, would something like a Beresford or Dacmagic be sufficient?

 

[crusaderlord]

I would have thought the whole comparison thing is initially going to rely on the quality of the external DAC against the CD's components.

A cheaper DAC would probably compare well against a budget CD player and an expensive DAC similarly can take on an expensive CD player.

A further aspect is whether you like the presentation of PC / DAC based music against various CD players. WHF review CD players all the time and will confirm that each has different merits and presentation emphasis and star ratings - so in the end it will probably be down to personal taste anyway. Even comparing like value CD players e.g Cyrus v Arcam yields very different responses and preferences from people on these forums and from the specialist magazine.

 

[Anonymous]

Wouldnt i be right in saying that its not that cut and dry? digital information can get currupted and pick interferance whist zooming down a ethernet cables or flying through the air wifi style and is subject to error correction and possible distorion....just a thought

 

[Anonymous]

A CD player is a transport and a DAC in one box.

The DAC is the main varient in sound quality.

A computer can make a perfect rip, play higher-res. files, and access various music services, internet radio etc.

Therefore it is a better solution for music-lovers.

 

[Anonymous]

Eddie Pound:
Therefore it is a better solution for music-lovers.

[Ducks for cover]

 

[JoelSim]

If the transport doesn't make any difference then how come the Cyrus SE has gained such good press and plaudits from those who know.

 

[Anonymous]

so in saying that the dac is most important you kinda shooting down your own argument!

 

[Anonymous]

JoelSim:If the transport doesn't make any difference then how come the Cyrus SE has gained such good press and plaudits from those who know.

It does make a difference.

 

[fatboyslimfast]

garethwd:Wouldnt i be right in saying that its not that cut and dry? digital information can get currupted and pick interferance whist zooming down a ethernet cables or flying through the air wifi style and is subject to error correction and possible distorion....just a thought

Not really Gareth. At data level (USB/WiFi/Ethernet) there is error checking and correction. If a data packet does not match a checksum, the sender re-sends it, so unless the link is so poor that the sender cannot re-send in time (in which case you will get dropouts) you will get a perfect data transfer.

However, once you get out of data mode and into SP/DIF, then your assumptions are correct, due to the data being streamed one way (i.e. no checking/resending) - hence why a reasonable optical/coaxial digital cable can sound better than a gawd-awful one.

 

[Charlie Jefferson]

Joel and other doubters,

The tide has turned/is turning.

As JD and Chebby, amongst others, have pointed out a DAC/Computer combo equals or surpasses CD alone.

In my own case, my CD player and external DAC were left in second place when I hooked up the DAC to my Mac via an Airport Express.

Tis true.

 

[The_Lhc]

garethwd:Wouldnt i be right in saying that its not that cut and dry? digital information can get currupted and pick interferance whist zooming down a ethernet cables or flying through the air wifi style and is subject to error correction and possible distorion....just a thought

No, it can't. Ethernet doesn't work like that, the data is sent in packets, if a packet gets corrupted, it's resent, if a packet doesn't arrive, it's resent, ethernet will just keep resending until the data arrives, or it times out, if it times out, you get nothing, you don't get corrupted data.

As for wifi interference, it's the same. Copy a wav file from a PC to a NAS (for example) and regardless of whether you copy via wired Ethernet or wifi the resultant files that arrive on the NAS will be identical, every single time. Replace the NAS with a music streamer such as a Sonos zone player and you can see that the information presented to the DAC will always be correct.