CD player v computer-based music

[Alec]

Gusboll:

My thoughts at the start of this thread centred around the potential inferiority of the computer-based format, mainly due to hearing some horrible ripped stuff - admittedly not lossless or equivalent. Listening to most of Frank Zappa's stuff (in 320 or less) for instance is astonishingly bad to the point where I would rather listen to my cat's septic claw scraping down a blackboard.

Few people have offered any kind of objective opinion.

Now, about these awful mp3s. Were they downloaded from a legit site (it does make a difference, often)? And have you developed a case of exageratitis when describing how awful they sounded, even at 320kbps? We've all done it, but it doesnt help.

EDIT - you said "ripped", not downloaded. My apologies.

 

[chebby]

Gusboll:My thoughts at the start of this thread centred
around the potential inferiority of the computer-based format, mainly
due to hearing some horrible ripped stuff - admittedly not lossless or
equivalent. Listening to most of Frank Zappa's stuff (in 320 or less)
for instance is astonishingly bad to the point where I would rather
listen to my cat's septic claw scraping down a blackboard.

Played AAC or MP3's? And was it via a DAC?

 

[Gusboll]

True, opinion is subjective! But at least one or two people on the thread have tried to do some comparisons without just dismissing things out of hand.

Re awful mp3s - I'm talking about rips from my CDs. I suspect though that Frank had the march on everyone and when he re-mastered everything, did some cunning things so that any potential piracy sounded dreadful! He probably died too soon for the mp3 generation but he was a visionary!

 

[Alec]

chebby:

Gusboll:My thoughts at the start of this thread centred around the potential inferiority of the computer-based format, mainly due to hearing some horrible ripped stuff - admittedly not lossless or equivalent. Listening to most of Frank Zappa's stuff (in 320 or less) for instance is astonishingly bad to the point where I would rather listen to my cat's septic claw scraping down a blackboard.

Played AAC MP3's via a DAC?

AAC MP3? Is there such a thing?

 

[Gusboll]

chebby:

Gusboll:My thoughts at the start of this thread centred around the potential inferiority of the computer-based format, mainly due to hearing some horrible ripped stuff - admittedly not lossless or equivalent. Listening to most of Frank Zappa's stuff (in 320 or less) for instance is astonishingly bad to the point where I would rather listen to my cat's septic claw scraping down a blackboard.

Played AAC MP3's via a DAC?

No - but I definitely intend to now!

 

[Alec]

Gusboll:

True, opinion is subjective! But at least one or two people on the thread have tried to do some comparisons without just dismissing things out of hand.

Re awful mp3s - I'm talking about rips from my CDs. I suspect though that Frank had the march on everyone and when he re-mastered everything, did some cunning things so that any potential piracy sounded dreadful! He probably died too soon for the mp3 generation but he was a visionary!

Yes, sorry about the download thing - see my edit above.

How did you rip those MP3s?

 

[chebby]

al7478:AAC MP3? Is there such a thing?

OK my bad. I know some people tend to classify all downloads/rips as 'MP3' so I meant to ask whether it was AAC or MP3. Sorry.

I have corrected it now.

Thanks

 

[Alec]

chebby:

al7478:AAC MP3? Is there such a thing?

OK my bad. I know people tend to classify all downloads/rips as 'MP3' so I meant to ask whether it was AAC or MP3. Sorry.

My bad? My bad?!?!

LOL, apology accepted

 

[chebby]

al7478:My bad? My bad?!?!

Yes as much as I love the language of Chaucer and Shakespeare and the Book of Common prayer - phrases like "My bad" are quite common (I work online every day with Americans).

I don't get prissy about English. Those who want to freeze the language and ban all 'imports', adaptations, and changes have not grasped quite how it got to be so dominant around the world.

This is part of the reason the full OED is now 20 volumes.

Shakespeare used "my bad" in a sonnet.....

Your love and pity doth the impression fill,

Which vulgar scandal stamped upon my brow;

For what care I who calls me well or ill,

So you o'er-green my bad, my good allow?

http://www.shakespeare-online.com/sonnets/112.html

 

[Alec]

Thankyou chebby. You have just made me feel a lot less chippy and pedantic.

 

[Anonymous]

There's no excuse for "doable," though.

 

[chebby]

Tarquinh:There's no excuse for "doable," though.

Indeed.

Or.. "Leveraging our synergies"

 

[Anonymous]

What I have found over the years is that the more revealing the system the less enjoyable poor quality recordings/productions sound.
The No 1 thing for me is to enjoy the music and for me I must be able to hear the depth, texture and detail. Hearing the singer breath, the natural decay of notes, hearing the brushing on a snare drum. You get the picture.
AND it must all hang together, not sound disjointed. Now I don't care what it is played on, or what format, if it does the above I am happy.

It can be like comparing Apples with Oranges if you are not careful, it depends where you are listening to your music.

I have a Apple 80g iPod classic and I use it in a car docking station on a good system whilst driving, in the bedroom in a Apple iPod Hi-Fi and it sounds very good, but I want a better system in my lounge where music will get my undivided attention at times.

Nowadays I listen to it all off a hard drive which I find indistinguishable from a high end CD player.

How times change!

 

[manicm]

chebby:the_lhc:

al7478: You could also just use well ripped mp3s, stop listening critically, and enjoy your music.

I really don't understand this argument, surely you'll enjoy the music more if it sounds better? No? If that's not the case, why spend any money on your hi-fi at all? Curry's sell mini systems for 20 quid, buy one of them and just tell yourself you're "enjoying the music".

I understand what is being said. I have found a few CDs that sounded harsh played on my CDP and were still harsh when ripped in lossless and played via the DAC. When I ripped a few 'absolutely must have despite the quality' tracks in 256kbps AAC (VBR) a most strange thing happened.. they were enjoyable again!

I have also heard a similar thing happening with certain tracks I hated (usually because of OTT/badly recorded, 'smashy/crashy cymbals) that become very listenable via Radio Paradise at 192kbps AAC. (The Who? especially.) I don't know why. I don't really care.

This phenomena is not true of all CDs or all types of music. I would say 80 percent of my rips are lossless and the rest in 256kbps AAC.

Chebby, this may be just an attribute of AAC. On both iPods I've owned AACs have always sounded smoother than MP3s if I rip the same CD. Thus as you say previously harsh recordings become a pleasure on AAC!

 

[idc]

manicm:

..... this may be just an attribute of AAC. On both iPods I've owned AACs have always sounded smoother than MP3s if I rip the same CD. Thus as you say previously harsh recordings become a pleasure on AAC!

I agree. I find that my music is less harsh and not that much less revealing on my ipods. I put it down to the ipod itself as much as the file type as I find it is the same from 128kbps through to lossless.

Also, in my limited experience more revealing systems are more tiring to listen to and I listen to the system as much as the music.

 

[JoelSim]

The trick is to get a system that you really really really have to force yourself to switch off at 2am in the morning because you have work the next day. I have that currently (to my ears)

 

[idc]

JoelSim:The trick is to get a system that you really really really have to force yourself to switch off at 2am in the morning because you have work the next day. I have that currently (to my ears)

Agree again, why my last post was at about 0200 this morning. I know that my present set up is rather basic and I use the ipod at the moment as the source. But compare the tradition hifi systems I have had over the years and the one I have now, I listen more to the music than ever before. So future upgrades will be a DAC, mod the amp and upgrade the PSU, upgrade the headphones and upgrade the speaker dock. But if I ever find that I have stopped listening to the music again I will stop and go back a step. But unless I get that lottery win I am well and truely in the computer based music camp.

 

[Tear Drop]

trevor79:What I have found over the years is that the more revealing the system the less enjoyable poor quality recordings/productions sound

That's only because a lot of hifi does one thing well (in this case detail/resolution) at the expense of a lot of other things, usually the things which are most important to engaging music reproduction and enjoyment, and this applies to all qualities of recordings.

 

[Anonymous]

Tear Drop:..... at the expense of a lot of other things, usually the things which are most important to engaging music reproduction and enjoyment.......

And examples of "other things" are?

 

[Tear Drop]

AKL:
Tear Drop:..... at the expense of a lot of other things, usually the things which are most important to engaging music reproduction and enjoyment.......

And examples of "other things" are?

Do your own thinking...the answers are fairly obvious after all!

 

[idc]

For me 'detail and resolution' suggests a high end system that can be brutal on poorly recorded music, but magical with well recorded music. To listen for 'detail and resolution' in a system also suggests a critical listen where the listening is to the system as much as the music. So again the music suffers and so can enjoyment of it.

 

[Anonymous]

Tear Drop:AKL:

Tear Drop:..... at the expense of a lot of other things, usually the things which are most important to engaging music reproduction and enjoyment.......

And examples of "other things" are?

Do your own thinking...the answers are fairly obvious after all!

Please enlighten me if you don't mind.

 

[Gusboll]

AKL:Tear Drop:AKL:

Tear Drop:..... at the expense of a lot of other things, usually the things which are most important to engaging music reproduction and enjoyment.......

And examples of "other things" are?

Do your own thinking...the answers are fairly obvious after all!

Please enlighten me if you don't mind.

And me!

 

[Anonymous]

Fascinating and timely post for me. Gusboll I have pretty much the same source and amps as you so hopefully the following is of use.

I got myself a DACMagic and linked up the airport express to my Cyrus/PMC system *hoping* it was going to trounce my CD8X + PSX-R. It didn't, but that said the difference isn't night and day unless you're sitting and listening intently.

I have my CDs ripped to Apple Lossless and the convenience is appealing, as is the ability to resurrect old scratched CDs, and rip CD singles that I collected in the 90s.

In my experience, the Apple Lossless + Airtunes + DacMagic is not as good as the CD8X- PSX-R, the latter is more "real", 3D and musical sounding. I suspect the DAC on the Cyrus combined with the cleaner power is better than the cheapo DacMagic.

The future's definitely digital and I'm busily ripping my CD collection to lossless. And for those who say this digital revolution is taking the fun out of hifi, that's total absolute nonsense, I can't think of a time when digital entertainment/music/etc has been more exciting.

 

[JoelSim]

ddias:
Fascinating and timely post for me. Gusboll I have pretty much the same source and amps as you so hopefully the following is of use.

I got myself a DACMagic and linked up the airport express to my Cyrus/PMC system *hoping* it was going to trounce my CD8X + PSX-R.ÿ It didn't, but that said the difference isn't night and day unless you're sitting and listening intently.

ÿI have my CDs ripped to Apple Lossless and the convenience is appealing, as is the ability to resurrect old scratched CDs, and rip CD singles that I collected in the 90s.ÿ

ÿIn my experience, the Apple Lossless + Airtunes + DacMagic is not as good as the CD8X- PSX-R, the latter is more "real", 3D and musical sounding.ÿ I suspect the DAC on the Cyrus combined with the cleaner power is better than the cheapo DacMagic.

The future's definitely digital and I'm busily ripping my CD collection to lossless. And for those who say this digital revolution is taking the fun out of hifi, that's total absolute nonsense, I can't think of a time when digital entertainment/music/etc has been more exciting.

ÿ

ÿ

Couldn't agree more. I haven't had this much fun since I spent a year of my life ripping music and then got my computer nicked.

ÿ