Unexpected speaker cable surprise

[Vladimir]

1) The Earth is flat, Sun revolves arround the Earth, and we live in a dome.

2) Nothing has gone to Space at all. The moon landing was faked with help of Disney. All space programs in every country are money making schemes and bread and circuses (a show). There are no Aliens, there is no Space, there is no Cosmos, only water above and bellow.

3) There is at least one undiscovered (to the public) continent at the far end of the Indian ocean, and it's not frosted with ice.

4) The rulling elite are Khazars representing themselves as Jews, and yes they are Satanists that eat human flesh, especially children.

5) Money is not important. The real currency on Earth is your soul and life energy that the elite wants to suck and drain from you in order to live longer.

6) All well made affordable and expensive cables, CDPs and amplifiers sound the same.

 

[abacus]

Thompsonuxb: Stop digging, as soon there will not be a ladder long enough to reach you.

Tip: Read your old school science/physics books.

Happy listening

Bill

 

[busb]

Wire or cable comprises of two parts - the conductor usually plated or unplated copper (occasionally silver that has lower resistance per unit of volume) & importantly, insulation. Air is a good insulator but cannot be used for fairly obvious reasons. The combined parts of a cable can be viewed as a Lumped Circuit that takes into account not just the resistance of both parts but the less significant variables such as inductance & capacitance. These 3 variables allow various calculations to characterise related AC variables such as impedance (AC resistance if you will) & frequency response for starters). AC calculations can be complex compared to DC due to the fact that current & EMF can lag the other leading to vector quantities requiring complex arithmatic (both literally & metaphorically). I'm not sure how different insulation materials effect cables at audio frequencies & with low voltages where the dialectical properties are fairly insignificant such as breakdown voltage. One important requirement for insulators is low water absorption.

How the 2 conductors are laid together is important: twist the pair & effect the inductance, changing the distance between the conductors will effect the capacitance (more). The engineering of conductors well beyond audio frequencies gets a lot more interesting were the cable length can effect the signal by reflecting some of the signal back due to discontinuities of mismatched connectors, in other words, signal propergation starts to behave more like light.

There are other significant contributions to audio such as the purity of the conductor like its lack of oxygen or being Ohno Continuous Cast or not. I'm not sure if either has any significance outside audio!

I have never heard any differences between interconnects, digital cables or optical ones of similar length personally. I have noted non-subtle differences between speaker cables that I'm unwilling to dismiss as imagination. I'm also aware that comparing the same piece of music at the same volume is extremely difficult because what we perceive as the "present" is a moving window of roughly 2 seconds so our minds need to save our perception of how something sounded in realtime then recall it & effectively overlay that memory whilst listening to the repeat. It's easy enough to decide if we are listening to the same piece of music, perhaps which version of a symphony but hearing subtle differences is on the edge of human ability. I personally don't do so very often deliberately because it is very taxing so most of the time I hear differences is usually incidentally. If I do listen out for differences, I try to concentrate on only one attribute at a time such as how a cymbal sounds or the prominence of bass. Trying to sort out fairly subtle changes to how something sounds is very difficult to comparing 2 photos taken with different lenses where you can concentrate on say one face in fractions of a second between them - we can't play the left channel through one cable & the right through another & expect any meaningful comparison - it has to be done sequentially.

In one sense, I'm suggesting that even if we can hear differences, they may well be insignificant for the simple reason that we maybe incapable of remembering them!

 

[Native_bon]

Cables threads may just have the answer to a logical meaning of life. Cables threads dn't you just love em.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Thompsonuxb: Stop digging, as soon there will not be a ladder long enough to reach you.

Tip: Read your old school science/physics books.

Happy listening

Bill

Abacus I am daring you or anyone else to refer to your books and debunk what I say.

I will gladly take the embarrassment if you shame me.

And apologise to TrevC.

So let's hear it......c'mon!

 

[TrevC]

Hilariously silly. Keep it up Ellis and Thommo. *biggrin*

Ok.....

Were you make your mistake Trev is believing resistance is 'built' into cables or is that your lack of understanding.

Its not, it's a property of the metals used.

A piece of wire is a piece of wire it's only when electricity is passed through it resistance becomes a 'quantity' depending on its composition.

I.e silver is a better conductor than copper or gold better than iron they have no resistant quality as such - ones just a better conductor than the other.

You, now taking this resistance thing and running with it..... Well it's an embarrassment , and puts the British education system to shame when spouted on an internationally read forum/board.

Diameter of a piece of wire really as nothing to do with anything but the composition of materials used does.

Which is why you make little to no sense.

There goes another rib!

The composition of the conductors in a given cable is not really relevant.

If the resistance is the same they will sound the same.

 

[TrevC]

Thompsonuxb: Stop digging, as soon there will not be a ladder long enough to reach you.

Tip: Read your old school science/physics books.

Happy listening

Bill

Abacus I am daring you or anyone else to refer to your books and debunk what I say.

I will gladly take the embarrassment if you shame me.

And apologise to TrevC.

So let's hear it......c'mon!

No need to apologise. I know you can't help it.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Double

 

[Thompsonuxb]

TrevC, again no counter argument.

Resistance is not built into cables - you can compare cables on their composition based purely on their quality as a conductor.

One of the posters above heard no difference between 2 sets of cable but did with a 3rd.

You don't think that's possible?

The 3rd cable being an 'exotic' brand comprising of 'metals' with superior conductive properties.

Makes no sense to YOU!

Even resistors have different values! Possible by using various grades of silicon or what ever resistors are made of.

The math is out there.

It's not about gaining more but about losing less

 

[steve_1979]

So... A question for Thompson.

Does a thick cable have less resistance than a thin cable of the same material?

 

[TrevC]

TrevC, again no counter argument.

Resistance is not built into cables - you can compare cables on their composition based purely on their quality as a conductor.

One of the posters above heard no difference between 2 sets of cable but did with a 3rd.

You don't think that's possible?

The 3rd cable being an 'exotic' brand comprising of 'metals' with superior conductive properties.

Makes no sense to YOU!

Even resistors have different values! Possible by using various grades of silicon or what ever resistors are made of.

The math is out there.

It's not about gaining more but about losing less

I really have no idea what you are on about. If you have two cables with the same resistance, regardless of construction, the signal at the speaker will be the same. Are you disputing that?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

So... A question for Thompson.

Does a thick cable have less resistance than a thin cable of the same material?

Proportionally - do the math, did you not see the I=V/R example!

Its all relative.

But don't think of it as resistance but instead of the capacity to carry an electrical signal.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Even resistors have different values! Possible by using various grades of silicon or what ever resistors are made of.

In your own argument you have literally just admitted that you dont understand what a resistor is.

?

The math is out there.

Honestly, my humour is wasted on you..... :-D

 

[drummerman]

Cables just act as an attenuator but factors such as construction, dielectric, leakage, skin effect etc etc affect what frequencies a cable attenuates. This includes resistance and thus thickness of a cable to an extent though imho there is far to much emphasis on this particular aspect in audiophile circles. As my example earlier in this thread, differences in resistance in say a 2sq.mm cable and one double that is minimal and probably inaudible in a typical domestic environment of a few meters length of cable and at most a few hundred watts.

Personally, I'd pay more (or at least the same) attention to the other parameters.

This coupled with output impedances of differing amplifiers can indeed have very audible effects on the outcome.

So, what one person hears as a difference in their system another may not in his/hers.

Others may simply be cloth eared ... .

In a similar way it would be ridicilous to suggest all amplifiers sound the same.

 

[steve_1979]

Honestly, my humour is wasted on you..... :-D

Honestly it's not. You crack me up more than anyone else on the internet.

 

[drummerman]

The problem with this and other threads of the same kind is that arguments and counter arguments happen so quick that most don't even read the threads any more but are more concerned to get the last word in.

What happens then is that when someone says something genuinely useful which others can learn from (I mean of course myself ;-) ) it is snowed under.

Happy Saturday everyone x

 

[TrevC]

factors such as construction, dielectric, leakage, skin effect etc etc

Leakage? What leakage? What difference can the dielectric make? Skin effect? At audio frequences?

You sound like a clueless idiot when you post stuff like that.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

The problem with this and other threads of the same kind is that arguments and counter arguments happen so quick that most don't even read the threads any more but are more concerned to get the last word in.

What happens then is that when someone says something genuinely useful which others can learn from (I mean of course myself  ;-)  ) it is snowed under.

Happy Saturday everyone x

I see your contribution D......

 

[TrevC]

The problem with this and other threads of the same kind is that arguments and counter arguments happen so quick that most don't even read the threads any more but are more concerned to get the last word in.

What happens then is that when someone says something genuinely useful which others can learn from (I mean of course myself ;-) ) it is snowed under.

Happy Saturday everyone x

Stay away from the techie stuff, you clearly have zero understanding of it. Reading Russ Andrews catalogue and learning it doesn't count as understanding.

Happy Saturday to you.

 

[steve_1979]

In an attempt to salvage something genuinely useful from this thread here's a link to a brilliant early 80's breakdancing mix: Clicky

May it bring many hours of happiness to you all no matter what your opinion on cables are.

 

[steve_1979]

Even resistors have different values! Possible by using various grades of silicon or what ever resistors are made of.

In your own argument you have literally just admitted that you don't understand what a resistor is.

The math is out there.

 

[drummerman]

factors such as construction, dielectric, leakage, skin effect etc etc

Leakage? What leakage? What difference can the dielectric make? Skin effect? At audio frequences?

You sound like a clueless idiot when you post stuff like that.

Then there are those in constant denial ... .

Belden do an interesting take on skin effect amongst other things. The University of St. Andrews would perhaps agree with you in their analysis of cables but the cumulative effect of design and materials may well be audible to some.

Like I said before, the 'ideal' cable is of Litz Wire construction in a reasonable diameter (Supra have an interesting take on this at not much cost) but thats not to say that for different amplifiers a different approach to cable construction and materials may be a better choice.

Suck it and see (except in your case of course)

Must be good to know everything not that I know

 

[Thompsonuxb]

......... *ROFL*

Edit:
TrevC stop editing your posts after the event......geeeeessse!

You look trapped in your 'resistance' - resistance is not built in.

The whole point of R&D is so the best materials can be used in these exotic cable.

Refer to Drummermans post.....let the resistance thing go.

It'll be amusing to see how your future arguments will be adjusted now....... *acute*

 

[TrevC]

factors such as construction, dielectric, leakage, skin effect etc etc

Leakage? What leakage? What difference can the dielectric make? Skin effect? At audio frequences?

You sound like a clueless idiot when you post stuff like that.

Then there are those in constant denial ... .

Belden do an interesting take on skin effect amongst other things. The University of St. Andrews would perhaps agree with you in their analysis of cables but the cumulative effect of design and materials may well be audible to some.

Like I said before, the 'ideal' cable is of Litz Wire construction in a reasonable diameter (Supra have an interesting take on this at not much cost) but thats not to say that for different amplifiers a different approach to cable construction and materials may be a better choice.

Suck it and see (except in your case of course)

Must be good to know everything not that I know

It must not indeed. :O)

 

[TrevC]

......... *ROFL*

Edit: TrevC stop editing your posts after the event......geeeeessse!

You look trapped in your 'resistance' - resistance is not built in.

The whole point of R&D is so the best materials can be used in these exotic cable.

Refer to Drummermans post.....let the resistance thing go.

It'll be amusing to see how your future arguments will be adjusted now....... *acute*

The best materials are being used already. Copper and silver. The only research the foo cable companies are undertaking is how to take the mugs that buy them for even more money. Why would i let the resistance thing go when I'm correct?