Unexpected speaker cable surprise

[TrevC]

I was reading the Tellurium website to see what the fuss about and came across this ...

clicky

Can't really go on after that.

Tellerium Blue isn't insanely priced (about £40 more than my Van Damme cables cost me including termination and VAT) and their termination fees are reasonable (direct from the company) and postage is free. The Blue stuff is pretty too.

But I can't get past that CD! What does it say about everything else they make?

It says they are dishonest.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

A recent change in speakers required repositioning my whole system that means I can reduce their length from 5m to 2m per channel. I've been using Atlas Ascent 2 (bought at the Bristol show a couple of years back at half the usual cost). The individual strands are very fine so are crimped into ferules that then are clamped into the screw-tighten 4mm plugs. Two ends have come out of the ferules so am about to return them to Atlas for shortening to 2m with new ferules.

I cut down some old Exposure cable that's over 25yrs old to 2m terminated with good quality hollow 4mm plugs then swapped them over. It was as if I was listening to totally different speakers: the image collapsed, detail gone - a generally dull & indistinct sound. I was rather surprised. I feel less of a lemon having spent a fortune on the Atlas cable. I'm far less inclined to spend well over the odds on interconnects but my experience with speaker wire is very different (yet again).

Make sure you change your fuses to some very expensive ones, they make a massive difference to the sound too.

Also, visit Russ Andrews, those cone shaped pieces of wood he sells for £33 make an enormous difference if you use them correctly, and if you think about it logically, why wouldn't they?

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Try the cables in the other direction.

Good idea. They sound better if they leave the amp and turn left, but under no circumstances let them turn to the right, the soundstage will be crushed.

 

[drummerman]

A recent change in speakers required repositioning my whole system that means I can reduce their length from 5m to 2m per channel. I've been using Atlas Ascent 2 (bought at the Bristol show a couple of years back at half the usual cost). The individual strands are very fine so are crimped into ferules that then are clamped into the screw-tighten 4mm plugs. Two ends have come out of the ferules so am about to return them to Atlas for shortening to 2m with new ferules.

I cut down some old Exposure cable that's over 25yrs old to 2m terminated with good quality hollow 4mm plugs then swapped them over. It was as if I was listening to totally different speakers: the image collapsed, detail gone - a generally dull & indistinct sound. I was rather surprised. I feel less of a lemon having spent a fortune on the Atlas cable. I'm far less inclined to spend well over the odds on interconnects but my experience with speaker wire is very different (yet again).

Make sure you change your fuses to some very expensive ones, they make a massive difference to the sound too.

Also, visit Russ Andrews, those cone shaped pieces of wood he sells for £33 make an enormous difference if you use them correctly, and if you think about it logically, why wouldn't they?

Ahh, the usual BiggerBernadiner ... contribution.

Only a question of time.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Did you conduct this experiment in a scientifically controlled environment as an abcdefx blind test after fasting for 3 days, no sex for 2 months and complete deprivation of any sensory input for 24 hours?

Or, did you completely move your system in the room, and 24 hours later, after changing your speaker cable for some you found in your neighbours shed, listen to it again, and realise that the precision instrument that is your memory, remembered it sounded much better before?

 

[drummerman]

I don't doubt the science behind speakers cables at all. There are measurements and lots of things I don't understand.

All I can say is that between the generic and Audioquest type 4 there was no difference in sound at all. But when I then swapped to the Tellurium there was a significant improvement. Every other aspect of the test was kept the same, speakers and amps in the same place. Furniture in the same place etc.....

I know all speaker cables aren't made the same which is why there will be different sounds. But all I can say is that between the £16/m and the £50/m speaker cables I tried there was a huge difference in sound. Whether this is down to the way the cables are made or materials of the cable or not I don't care one bit. It's just a much better sound and I am happier for it.

Prices are meaningless in this context. Nordost sell inadequate speaker cable called Red Heaven or some such nonsense that will sound like bell wire because it's simply too thin and high resistance.

You need 4 or 6mm copper on a longish run. Any idea what Tellurium is made of? If you did, you could duplicate it at a fraction of the price.

There are more important factors than just cable thickness/loop resistance.

To give you an example, a 2 sq.mm cable (in this instance from Atlas) exhibits just under 17.0 mohm/m resistance.

The same cable in a 3 sq.mm diameter measures at 12 mohm/m.

Now if you think this is a big difference, the former equates to a power loss of 0.018db/m.

The differences for for both inductance and capacitance are fractionally different, the former very slightly higher, the latter very slightly lower. - Minute differences. Both cables easily sufficient for your average domestic lengths and power ... . It only becomes problematic if using very thin cabling which may impair loudspeaker control with a typical (small) power loss.

There are other contributing factors which can determine the (measured) and subjective outcome between differenct cable constructions; Leakage (poor insulation materials), capacitance and inductance, an 'issue' with flat, parallel-geometry cables such as the ones used by Tellurium.

Not all cables are created equally and whilst I agree that price (sometimes) has less effect on the outcome good materials (and there is more to it than 'just' the conductor) do cost more and are usually reflected in pricing, some silly examples notwithstanding.

For those of you that want to construct your own speaker cables from scratch, you find that unless you use exotic conductor material, half decent insulation such as PTFE often costs more than the copper within. Even from 'non-audiophile' suppliers. Same for the sleeving. In case of more elaborate constructions, these easily multiply.

This is why I don't think that say £20/m is that much for a decent speaker cable for a revealing system.

Bear in mind that a lot of money is charged for termination but cable sellers. This can often add a substantial amount. Easily done at home even for the inexperienced unless the cable is something like litz wire or other elaborate construction which requires time consuming stripping before termination is possible. Even so, with a little patience many could save a few hard earned quid.

There are no doubt examples which bear little reflection on the cost of the materials but some of you seem to think this starts at a few quid a meter ... .

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Make sure you change your fuses to some very expensive ones, they make a massive difference to the sound too.

Also, visit Russ Andrews, those cone shaped pieces of wood he sells for £33 make an enormous difference if you use them correctly, and if you think about it logically, why wouldn't they?

Ahh, the usual BiggerBernadiner ... contribution.

Only a question of time.

What do you mean? I've seen the error of my ways, and I was encouraging the OP to spend his money on things that we all know make a massive difference to SQ. Think about it, cone shaped pieces of wood to replace the original feet on your expensive amplifier are bound to make a noticeable difference, aren't they?

 

[ID.]

I was reading the Tellurium website to see what the fuss about and came across this ...

http://densen.dk/index.php?page=densen-cd-magic

i wonder whether it is similar. And yes, it did make a difference (or rather I heard a difference). More noticeable in some systems than others, for what it's worth.

 

[TrevC]

I was reading the Tellurium website to see what the fuss about and came across this ...

http://densen.dk/index.php?page=densen-cd-magic

i wonder whether it is similar. And yes, it did make a difference (or rather I heard a difference). More noticeable in some systems than others, for what it's worth.

It means you are imagining it. What nonsense.

 

[hammill]

I was reading the Tellurium website to see what the fuss about and came across this ...

http://densen.dk/index.php?page=densen-cd-magic

i wonder whether it is similar. And yes, it did make a difference (or rather I heard a difference). More noticeable in some systems than others, for what it's worth.

From the website:

Some years ago we discovered that a strong signal from a signal generator sent through the signal path of an amplifier had a positive effect on the sound. A year later, having experimented with complex signals, we found an algorithm of signals that gave a stunning improvement in soundstage, transparency, details, musicality and dynamics for audio systems.

The reason behind this is that the small magnets in the signal-path become, with time, orientated in one direction. This produces a detrimental effect on the signal. The DeMagic signal actually relocates the magnets, and thereby breaks the magnetic field and its negative effect on the sound.

I am particularly delighted by "an algorithm of signals". That's top quality nonsense

 

[TrevC]

There are more important factors than just cable thickness/loop resistance.

To give you an example, a 2 sq.mm cable (in this instance from Atlas) exhibits just under 17.0 mohm/m resistance.

The same cable in a 3 sq.mm diameter measures at 12 mohm/m.

Now if you think this is a big difference, the former equates to a power loss of 0.018db/m.

If we are talking about speaker cables of normal construction the values of inductance and capacitance and insulation resistance are too tiny to be relevant. What is left? Resistance and perception, that's what.

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

I hope this will not be remarked as "rude" because it's not my intention, but it's always thin ice to speak about those things without beeing an arse with the peoples.

Peoples that heard difference ; did you use anything, at anytime of your cable compairing process, a thing that look like this ?

...or even this ?

Because, if the answer is no, then, this discussion could be closed. I will make some analogy. "You are timekeeper for a formel one race, but you forgot your stop watch :"

...you could try to count 1.. 2... 3... 4..., but it will not be precise and no F1 team will accept your timing. The same goes if you want to have a base for making a compairing of sounds. You need to start on the same base. So if the first cable gives you 75dB, you must be sure that the second cable you swap will deliver, in the end, 75dB. Because, if not, the quietest cable will always be the worse.

So again, if your answer is no, I will be polite and say that it's your belief.

 

[busb]

And if someone broke into your place overnight and swapped your old cables back in without you realizing I'd bet (but maybe only 10 pounds or so ) that you wouldn't realize and would still claim that it sounded disorganized, etc.

I'm not saying there's no difference, but probably less than you think.

I doubt very much if I'd notice. I sometimes forget to pump my cycle's tyres up then I suddenly realise they are soft so pump them back up then notice a hell of a difference. We sometimes soldier on with an old radio then replace it to be amazed how much better it is but failed to notice any deterioration in the old one. The brain is very adaptable at compensating. The difference is rarely dawn to dusk *biggrin* - especially with cables. I rarely hear any tangible difference between interconnects for instance.

 

[busb]

You swapped the position of your entire gear in your room, changed your cable, and believe that the change in sound comes from your cable.

So you used a leftover 25 years old cable that could be oxidised, and it prooves once and for all that cables are an incredible tunning tool.

You are sweet. Like a virgin on first date.

so - perhaps you should read posts & comprehend before making smart arse comments. If you had bothered, you would just maybe have worked out by yourself that all the changes didn't happen simultaneously & that the comparison was only after other changes had been made. As for the old cable, the ends were cut back, checked for tarnish then grub screws tightened.

 

[busb]

I will be returning the Atlas cable for shortening & recrimping new ferrules soon so will be reconnecting the Exposure cable. I will report back if the difference is still apparent or not. Nothing was moved - the speaker terminals are easily accessed. Even my listening position remained the same.

 

[ID.]

I was reading the Tellurium website to see what the fuss about and came across this ...

http://densen.dk/index.php?page=densen-cd-magic

i wonder whether it is similar. And yes, it did make a difference (or rather I heard a difference). More noticeable in some systems than others, for what it's worth.

It means you are imagining it. What nonsense.

which is why I put heard a difference. Like I've heard differences in digital and power cables; doesn't mean there is a difference, but the human brain will often hear one even if one isn't desired or expected, just because it knows something has been changed, etc.

No idea where I put the CD. this is one that would be much harder to blind test because of the time involved in playback and the need to remove myself or the system from hearing range.

As someone not at all technically minded, I wonder how one would go about trying to measure the claims. Both in terms of audio output and electromagnetic waves, etc. around the cables.

 

[spiny norman]

Try the cables in the other direction.

You mean running away from the speakers? Yes, that'll make a difference.

 

[nopiano]

I hope this will not be remarked as "rude" because it's not my intention, but it's always thin ice to speak about those things without beeing an arse with the peoples.

Peoples that heard difference ; did you use anything, at anytime of your cable compairing process, a thing that look like this ?

...or even this ?

Because, if the answer is no, then, this discussion could be closed. I will make some analogy. "You are timekeeper for a formel one race, but you forgot your stop watch :"

...you could try to count 1.. 2... 3... 4..., but it will not be precise and no F1 team will accept your timing. The same goes if you want to have a base for making a compairing of sounds. You need to start on the same base. So if the first cable gives you 75dB, you must be sure that the second cable you swap will deliver, in the end, 75dB. Because, if not, the quietest cable will always be the worse.

So again, if your answer is no, I will be polite and say that it's your belief.

. A clever analogy.

But if cables don't make a difference, how would the volume change? Only excessive additional resistance would do that, surely?

 

[Jota180]

A recent change in speakers required repositioning my whole system that means I can reduce their length from 5m to 2m per channel. I've been using Atlas Ascent 2 (bought at the Bristol show a couple of years back at half the usual cost). The individual strands are very fine so are crimped into ferules that then are clamped into the screw-tighten 4mm plugs. Two ends have come out of the ferules so am about to return them to Atlas for shortening to 2m with new ferules.

I cut down some old Exposure cable that's over 25yrs old to 2m terminated with good quality hollow 4mm plugs then swapped them over. It was as if I was listening to totally different speakers: the image collapsed, detail gone - a generally dull & indistinct sound. I was rather surprised. I feel less of a lemon having spent a fortune on the Atlas cable. I'm far less inclined to spend well over the odds on interconnects but my experience with speaker wire is very different (yet again).

Different speakers sound different?

Repositioning speakers make them sound different?

To use your later post engineer theme, a good engineer will only change one variable when trying to determine if changing that variable can alter something else. If you change too many things, how can you ascribe any change in sound to one specific thing?

 

[ellisdj]

Try the cables in the other direction.

You mean running away from the speakers? Yes, that'll make a difference.

Took 3 pages for someone to take the bait on that one.
Surprised I expected more from that.

There would be no need to do this as I am sure the op would have wired them in the direction as instructed by the arrows on them or following the writing.
Maybe he needs to run them in again from not being used for a long time

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

The frequency response of a cable can be visualized as a straight line. But a different resistance can place this straight line higher or lower. Like the volume control don't change your music quality, your cable don't affect music quality either, it affect music volume.

@busb, at no moment, you wrote that the changes were done progressivly.

 

[TrevC]

The frequency response of a cable can be visualized as a straight line. But a different resistance can place this straight line higher or lower. Like the volume control don't change your music quality, your cable don't affect music quality either, it affect music volume.

@busb, at no moment, you wrote that the changes were done progressivly.

You would be dead right if you were talking about something where the load impedance doesn't change, like an interconnect used at line levels for example, obviously they can't affect sound quality. A speaker has an impedance that varies greatly with frequency, so if you used a cable that was too resistive the impedance peaks would result in peaks in response.

Why does the NSA watch your toilet?

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_1668893286707899]

I once had a similar issue . It was down to having the speaker cable polarity wrong . I've had expensive and cheap cables , but as long as the gauge is correct there shouldn't be any difference. I've tried the speaker cable comparison many times and found that you just need the correct gauge and polarity and they all sound the same .

 

[hammill]

I once had a similar issue . It was down to having the speaker cable polarity wrong . I've had expensive and cheap cables , but as long as the gauge is correct there shouldn't be any difference. I've tried the speaker cable comparison many times and found that you just need the correct gauge and polarity and they all sound the same .

Welcome to team rational. We need all the help we can get.

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

Why does the NSA watch your toilet?

They love to collect every sh_te they can find.