Unexpected speaker cable surprise

[drummerman]

I once had a similar issue . It was down to having the speaker cable polarity wrong . I've had expensive and cheap cables , but as long as the gauge is correct there shouldn't be any difference. I've tried the speaker cable comparison many times and found that you just need the correct gauge and polarity and they all sound the same .

Welcome to team rational. We need all the help we can get.

Never a truer word spoken ...

 

[Thompsonuxb]

And if someone broke into your place overnight and swapped your old cables back in without you realizing I'd bet (but maybe only 10 pounds or so  ) that you wouldn't realize and would still claim that it sounded disorganized, etc.?

I'm not saying there's no difference, but probably less than you think. 

I'd take that bet...... I argue the opposite , any differences would be noticed.

(sure I said this or the opposite to it a few days ago......)

 

[Thompsonuxb]

?

There are more important factors than just cable thickness/loop resistance.

To give you an example, a 2 sq.mm cable (in this instance from Atlas) exhibits just under 17.0 mohm/m resistance.

The same cable in a 3 sq.mm diameter measures at 12 mohm/m.

Now if you think this is a big difference, the former equates to a power loss of 0.018db/m.

If we are talking about speaker cables of normal construction the values of inductance and capacitance and insulation resistance are too tiny to be relevant. What is left? Resistance and perception, that's what.

 

Please stop......

The principles of electronics and mathematics are fixed.

'amounts' have nothing to do with anything. There is no such thing as 'too tiny'.......

It's like a 3,4,5 right angle triangle - it's the same regardless of size be it big or small - I can't believe you've come back to this.

Thought we educated you beyond this month's ago. At least you're clinging to 'resistance'....

Anyone remember when it was 'they all sound the same - full stop!

Good times......

 

[TrevC]

There are more important factors than just cable thickness/loop resistance.

To give you an example, a 2 sq.mm cable (in this instance from Atlas) exhibits just under 17.0 mohm/m resistance.

The same cable in a 3 sq.mm diameter measures at 12 mohm/m.

Now if you think this is a big difference, the former equates to a power loss of 0.018db/m.

If we are talking about speaker cables of normal construction the values of inductance and capacitance and insulation resistance are too tiny to be relevant. What is left? Resistance and perception, that's what.

Please stop......

The principles of electronics and mathematics are fixed.

'amounts' have nothing to do with anything. There is no such thing as 'too tiny'.......

It's like a 3,4,5 right angle triangle - it's the same regardless of size be it big or small - I can't believe you've come back to this.

Thought we educated you beyond this month's ago. At least you're clinging to 'resistance'....

Anyone remember when it was 'they all sound the same - full stop!

Good times......

I suddenly feel highly intellectual. Thanks for that!

 

[Thompsonuxb]

?

There are more important factors than just cable thickness/loop resistance.

To give you an example, a 2 sq.mm cable (in this instance from Atlas) exhibits just under 17.0 mohm/m resistance.

The same cable in a 3 sq.mm diameter measures at 12 mohm/m.

Now if you think this is a big difference, the former equates to a power loss of 0.018db/m.

If we are talking about speaker cables of normal construction the values of inductance and capacitance and insulation resistance are too tiny to be relevant. What is left? Resistance and perception, that's what.

?

Please stop......

The principles of electronics and mathematics are fixed.

'amounts' have nothing to do with anything. There is no such thing as 'too tiny'.......

?

It's like a 3,4,5 right angle triangle - it's the same regardless of size be it big or small - I can't believe you've come back to this.

Thought we educated you beyond this month's ago. At least you're clinging to 'resistance'....

Anyone remember when it was 'they all sound the same - full stop!

Good times......

I suddenly feel highly intellectual. Thanks for that!

Then please show it.....

 

[drummerman]

I feel the oven getting warm ...

 

[TrevC]

There are more important factors than just cable thickness/loop resistance.

To give you an example, a 2 sq.mm cable (in this instance from Atlas) exhibits just under 17.0 mohm/m resistance.

The same cable in a 3 sq.mm diameter measures at 12 mohm/m.

Now if you think this is a big difference, the former equates to a power loss of 0.018db/m.

If we are talking about speaker cables of normal construction the values of inductance and capacitance and insulation resistance are too tiny to be relevant. What is left? Resistance and perception, that's what.

Please stop......

The principles of electronics and mathematics are fixed.

'amounts' have nothing to do with anything. There is no such thing as 'too tiny'.......

It's like a 3,4,5 right angle triangle - it's the same regardless of size be it big or small - I can't believe you've come back to this.

Thought we educated you beyond this month's ago. At least you're clinging to 'resistance'....

Anyone remember when it was 'they all sound the same - full stop!

Good times......

I suddenly feel highly intellectual. Thanks for that!

Then please show it.....

Already done. It isn't my fault you don't understand.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Google attenuation and skin effect and get back to me.

 

[drummerman]

I feel the oven getting warm ...

... getting hotter

 

[Thompsonuxb]

?

There are more important factors than just cable thickness/loop resistance.

To give you an example, a 2 sq.mm cable (in this instance from Atlas) exhibits just under 17.0 mohm/m resistance.

The same cable in a 3 sq.mm diameter measures at 12 mohm/m.

Now if you think this is a big difference, the former equates to a power loss of 0.018db/m.

If we are talking about speaker cables of normal construction the values of inductance and capacitance and insulation resistance are too tiny to be relevant. What is left? Resistance and perception, that's what.

?

Please stop......

The principles of electronics and mathematics are fixed.

'amounts' have nothing to do with anything. There is no such thing as 'too tiny'.......

?

It's like a 3,4,5 right angle triangle - it's the same regardless of size be it big or small - I can't believe you've come back to this.

Thought we educated you beyond this month's ago. At least you're clinging to 'resistance'....

Anyone remember when it was 'they all sound the same - full stop!

Good times......

I suddenly feel highly intellectual. Thanks for that!

Then please show it.....

Already done. It isn't my fault you don't understand. 

Understand what.....?

Your clinging to resistance for instance or your insistence of using it as a disclaimer.....?

The man said he heard a difference he never claimed he was abducted by aliens.

And you're here shouting it's 'nonesense' or he 'thinks'......blah blah.

Based on science!

Then you use '.....'too tiny' to make a difference' showing zero understanding of electrical principles.....

Stop!

Unrelated but food for thought which is better an amp giving measurements of distortion @0.5% THD or one giving measurements @0.03% THD......actually this is another thread but I was going to suggest you look at the size of the figures......

In fact look at your amps spec sheets and look at the figures.....

 

[TrevC]

There are more important factors than just cable thickness/loop resistance.

To give you an example, a 2 sq.mm cable (in this instance from Atlas) exhibits just under 17.0 mohm/m resistance.

The same cable in a 3 sq.mm diameter measures at 12 mohm/m.

Now if you think this is a big difference, the former equates to a power loss of 0.018db/m.

If we are talking about speaker cables of normal construction the values of inductance and capacitance and insulation resistance are too tiny to be relevant. What is left? Resistance and perception, that's what.

Please stop......

The principles of electronics and mathematics are fixed.

'amounts' have nothing to do with anything. There is no such thing as 'too tiny'.......

It's like a 3,4,5 right angle triangle - it's the same regardless of size be it big or small - I can't believe you've come back to this.

Thought we educated you beyond this month's ago. At least you're clinging to 'resistance'....

Anyone remember when it was 'they all sound the same - full stop!

Good times......

I suddenly feel highly intellectual. Thanks for that!

Then please show it.....

Already done. It isn't my fault you don't understand.

Understand what.....?

Your clinging to resistance for instance or your insistence of using it as a disclaimer.....?

The man said he heard a difference he never claimed he was abducted by aliens.

And you're here shouting it's 'nonesense' or he 'thinks'......blah blah.

Based on science!

Then you use '.....'too tiny' to make a difference' showing zero understanding of electrical principles.....

Stop!

Unrelated but food for thought which is better an amp giving measurements of distortion @0.5% THD or one giving measurements @0.03% THD......actually this is another thread but I was going to suggest you look at the size of the figures......

In fact look at your amps spec sheets and look at the figures.....

The values of inductance and capacitance of a speaker cable of normal construction , a few microhenries and picofarads, will have no effect on a very low impedance audio signal. The resistance is all that matters.

 

[ellisdj]

All that matters
Including metal used, shape and size and make up of conductors, construction of such cable, the dielectic, the cable direction, the run in period and connectors used. Might have missed 1 or 2 there sorry if I did

 

[Thompsonuxb]

?

There are more important factors than just cable thickness/loop resistance.

To give you an example, a 2 sq.mm cable (in this instance from Atlas) exhibits just under 17.0 mohm/m resistance.

The same cable in a 3 sq.mm diameter measures at 12 mohm/m.

Now if you think this is a big difference, the former equates to a power loss of 0.018db/m.

If we are talking about speaker cables of normal construction the values of inductance and capacitance and insulation resistance are too tiny to be relevant. What is left? Resistance and perception, that's what.

?

Please stop......

The principles of electronics and mathematics are fixed.

'amounts' have nothing to do with anything. There is no such thing as 'too tiny'.......

?

It's like a 3,4,5 right angle triangle - it's the same regardless of size be it big or small - I can't believe you've come back to this.

Thought we educated you beyond this month's ago. At least you're clinging to 'resistance'....

Anyone remember when it was 'they all sound the same - full stop!

Good times......

I suddenly feel highly intellectual. Thanks for that!

Then please show it.....

Already done. It isn't my fault you don't understand.?

Understand what.....?

Your clinging to resistance for instance or your insistence of using it as a disclaimer.....?

The man said he heard a difference he never claimed he was abducted by aliens.

And you're here shouting it's 'nonesense' or he 'thinks'......blah blah.

Based on science!

Then you use '.....'too tiny' to make a difference' showing zero understanding of electrical principles.....

Stop!

Unrelated but food for thought which is better an amp giving measurements of distortion @0.5% THD or one giving measurements @0.03% THD......actually this is another thread but I was going to suggest you look at the size of the figures......

In fact look at your amps spec sheets and look at the figures.....

The values of inductance and capacitance  of a speaker cable of normal construction , a few microhenries and picofarads, will have no effect on a very low impedance audio signal. The resistance is all that matters. 

The value of inductance, resistance and capacitance blah blah.... is directly relative to the size of the electrical signal passing over a conductor.

When you are talking mV, mA 'tiny' quantities those parsnips or whatever do make a difference.

The 3,4,5 right angle triangle...... I was throwing you a bone!

 

[ellisdj]

3 year old jumping on me duplicate

 

[TrevC]

*lol*

 

[steve_1979]

The value of inductance, resistance and capacitance blah blah.... is directly relative to the size of the electrical signal passing over a conductor.

When you are talking mV, mA 'tiny' quantities those parsnips or whatever do make a difference.

The 3,4,5 right angle triangle...... I was throwing you a bone!

Parsnips?

Triangles?

I thought this was a cable thread. WTF are you talking about? All of your posts make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

*lol*

Seriously Trev sort your basics out.

I=V/R

R is not fixed. Increase in voltage or current WILL affect the value of R.

10=40/R

13=40/R

Find R.....

You can add decimal points to make these whole no.s Really really really...... Really small if you wish.

When you are taking a dynamic signal purely in theory.......

 

[Thompsonuxb]

The value of inductance, resistance and capacitance blah blah.... is directly relative to the size of the electrical signal passing over a conductor.

When you are talking mV, mA 'tiny' quantities those parsnips or whatever do make a difference.

The 3,4,5 right angle triangle...... I was throwing you a bone!

Parsnips?

Triangles?

I thought this was a cable thread. WTF are you talking about? All of your posts make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Sometimes my humour doesn't translate......

But it makes perfect sense......

You don't know Pythagoras?....cse grade education?

 

[steve_1979]

Sometimes my humour doesn't translate......

Ahh it was a joke. Sorry I didn't realise.

You don't know Pythagoras?

What does Pythagoras have do do with cables? Unless you're making some loose connection between his theorem and the relationship between voltage, resistance and current?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Sometimes my humour doesn't translate......

Ahh it was a joke. Sorry I didn't realise.

?

You don't know Pythagoras?

What does Pythagoras have do do with cables? Unless you're making some loose connection between his theorem and the relationship between voltage, resistance and current?

Yes.... And it ain't loose.

 

[steve_1979]

And it ain't loose.

Well...

 

[steve_1979]

Out of interest why choose Pythagoras rather than Pi r squared or something else equally unrelated?

 

[TrevC]

Hilariously silly. Keep it up Ellis and Thommo. *biggrin*

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Hilariously silly. Keep it up Ellis and Thommo. *biggrin*

Ok.....

Were you make your mistake Trev is believing resistance is 'built' into cables or is that your lack of understanding.

Its not, it's a property of the metals used.

A piece of wire is a piece of wire it's only when electricity is passed through it resistance becomes a 'quantity' depending on its composition.

I.e silver is a better conductor than copper or gold better than iron they have no resistant quality as such - ones just a better conductor than the other.

You, now taking this resistance thing and running with it..... Well it's an embarrassment , and puts the British education system to shame when spouted on an internationally read forum/board.

Diameter of a piece of wire really as nothing to do with anything but the composition of materials used does.

Which is why you make little to no sense.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Out of interest why choose Pythagoras rather than Pi r squared or something else equally unrelated?

Well it was to give Trev a clue ref how things work.

Trev thinks because the values are tiny it won't matter....

But it's all relative.

The 3,4,5 right angle triangle is something most would understand.

If you're given the 2 sides adjacent to the right angle for example you'll know the hypotanues if they are multiples of 3 and 4 .

Ie 9,12 ......15 but it's not just the sides its everything ref this triangle

Even if its thousandth behind the decimal - the principles of electrical transfer is the same.

The math does not stop working because 'tiny' values are applied.

Bottom line the math/science show clearly why cables can differ in there presentation.