Rega Elicit R - Happy

[altruistic.lemon]

DDC, Ditto, and good health to you and all your family!

 

[radiorog]

.

 

[radiorog]

Hi.

For what it's worth, I'm building an amp and I went to a toroid maker and gave him the spec I needed and he went out of his way to warn me that toroids do tend to hum a bit. When I asked him why he said that no 2 toroids are EXACTLY the same. One might buzz a bit under load and another won't. I asked him why and what I was told was that toroids are essentially wound as 1 offs. At which point I said to increase the Va of the toroid and he advised me that if he did that the sound quality of the amp could be compromised ( spelt that right?? ).

With large transformers, the toroid is the less expensive way to go. True, a laminate won't buzz like that but it'll be twice the cost and huge and weigh a ton. Just seems to be something with toroids which seems to be exaggerated with 'c**p' on the mains line sometimes.

That's the way it was explained to me anyway.

I know this doesn't help the OP though because it's annoying when it happens although out of all the toroids I've used over the years, most of them have been NOVATEL and none of them have buzzed. Not even the 1000Va.

It is the combination of the characteristics of the toroid and the characteristics of the mains distortion that cause the problem. I have experienced mains so poor that virtually any piece of kit that you try will hum and buzz but that does not appear to be the issue here.

The previous amplifier was quiet and the likelyhood is that the next one you try will be too, inconveniant sure but surely not that big an issue when you have the assurance of the manufacturer that it will be sorted.

The reality is that this is a (relatively) mass produced amplifier built to come to market at about £1500. The transformer is, along with the case, the most expensive component in the amplifier so costs here are crucial.

As Richard points out a laminated transformer will be far more expensive, a 'guaranteed' noise free toroid could probably by built at a price, but would anyone buy an Ellicit-R at £2500?

And why should theyhave to, in my experience this sort of problem is relatively rare, and the number that can not be solved by swapping the amp for another sample rarer still. The amp is fine value for 90+% of the people who purchase it, that's just the way it is.

Edit. In my experience all brands of transformers that I have seen used in hi-fi can hum and buzz in certain situations.

Thats not just the it is... The way it is.. is do something about it. when you get so many people having the same problem from the same company then its a bad design. When this topic was brought up last year so many people report the same problems of huming.. with rega amps so this is not a case of just a one of or few amps..

I have bought some many amps including cambridge audio which uses a lot of toroid mains power & never once did I hear any huming...

You were very lucky then. I have owned, at various times, several Cambridge amps including 340A V2.0, 540A, 640A V2.0, 650A, and 740A. Every single one has exhibited some buzz/hum from the mains transformer, as did both of the NAD C326BEEs I had and a C325BEE.

On the other hand none of the Arcams, Marantz or Rotels I've had have produced any humming noise at all.

So u bought up to seven CA amps & not at one piont did you think of not buying an more of these humming CA amps..? I find that very hard to believe.

Agreed.....I think there is a definite difference between acceptable humming,which surely virtually all amps will do, and a noisy buzzing that you can here over the music

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Just my two pennies worth. :rant:

The Elicit-R cost around £1600, it isn't all singing and dancing, it's a straight forward amp, so to me, this means that it should be extremely well made, with some of the best components available inside.

So why the f*ck do things keep going wrong with it?

Either it's badly manufactured on the cheap in China, or the components aren't as good as they should be, but either way, the price is an absolute p*ss take.

Just my observation, so please feel free to argue against it if you feel I am wrong, as it wouldn't be the first time. :wave:

 

[stevebrock]

BBB, its built in Southend - on - Sea

Your comments have a lot of substance and I do agree with you - I love the sound and worry if I get another amp it need to sound on par with the Elicit or better!

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Manufactured on the cheap in England then.

I wasn't picking on Rega in particular, but I do feel some of these companies are taking us buyers for a ride sometimes.

What exactly goes in to a no frills amp to make it worth £1600? IMO, it really should have the best components available, and it should last a very long time if treated properly.

This for example, is not only an ugly mutha, but it's ridiculously priced. Would anyone buy this at this price? http://www.whathifi.com/review/dartzeel-cth-8550/specs

 

[JamesMellor]

This for example, is not only an ugly mutha, but it's ridiculously priced. Would anyone buy this at this price? http://www.whathifi.com/review/dartzeel-cth-8550/specs

Elton John ?

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

This for example, is not only an ugly mutha, but it's ridiculously priced. Would anyone buy this at this price? http://www.whathifi.com/review/dartzeel-cth-8550/specs

Elton John ?

You may well be right.

 

[radiorog]

Manufactured on the cheap in England then.

I wasn't picking on Rega in particular, but I do feel some of these companies are taking us buyers for a ride sometimes.

What exactly goes in to a no frills amp to make it worth £1600? IMO, it really should have the best components available, and it should last a very long time if treated properly.

This for example, is not only an ugly mutha, but it's ridiculously priced. Would anyone buy this at this price? http://www.whathifi.com/review/dartzeel-cth-8550/specs

I remember watching the apprentice last year, or maybe the year before, ok....I only partially remember.....but they were selling about 10 chunks of pineapple for £3 or more, and they sold loads. If marketed correctly to the right people it seemed, people will pay....I'm guessing either as a status thing....or a more money than sense thing.

 

[Vladimir]

Wait till the Samwha caps start popping in a few years.

 

[stevebrock]

Sorry guys to labour this problem anymore but have just discovered another issue!

When I have the amp on Input 1 (phono stage) and the volume about 1 o clock (dont forget the volume control range is more usable than most amps) there is high pitched buzz from the speakers that I can hear quite loudly from the sofa)

This only happens on Input 1 - This amp will definately be exchanged on Saturday.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

I've been away from this thread as I don't own a Elicit R and didn't like it in my system. But the thread is going off topic and now people are talking about Rega Brio R, let me add that my Brio R was in my rack for 1 year turn on 24/7 and never humed!!!

Rega sold this AMAZING amp by the hudreds and if all humed Rega had a big problem in hands, i think it's a bit unfair saing that Rega has a "genetic" problem.

I understand your concerns about bringing the brio r into this thread, but I was raising my concerns that it does appear to be an issue rega has in general with some of its amps.

I understand too that many people have had no issue, but I went through 4 amps in a month, and 3 had excessive humming, 1 was buzzing like a drill with buzzing also coming out of speakers. To me, 3 out of 4 buzzing amps seemed to be statistically relevant to warrant me posting some concerns I experiences.

I was very sad to let mine go, but needed to cash in the money as my system is growing by the hour...

Enjoy your Brio R and if you don't already have, you need to buy a TT and take full advantage of the built in Phono stage... :twisted:

 

[matthewpiano]

Steve, the problems just seem to be mounting up. First your strange sound problem on Elicit-R 1, then the humming on Elicit-R 2, and now this new issue on Elicit-R 2, not to mention the other forum member who had a channel fail on his Elicit-R.

I know you love the sound, but how long do you want to keep being Rega's quality control?

For me this new issue would be the final straw. I wouldn't expect these issues on a £300 amp, never mind a £1600 one.

 

[stevebrock]

Steve, the problems just seem to be mounting up. First your strange sound problem on Elicit-R 1, then the humming on Elicit-R 2, and now this new issue on Elicit-R 2, not to mention the other forum member who had a channel fail on his Elicit-R.

I know you love the sound, but how long do you want to keep being Rega's quality control?

For me this new issue would be the final straw. I wouldn't expect these issues on a £300 amp, never mind a £1600 one.

Exactly - I have some serious thinking to do!

 

[davedotco]

Sorry guys to labour this problem anymore but have just discovered another issue!

When I have the amp on Input 1 (phono stage) and the volume about 1 o clock (dont forget the volume control range is more usable than most amps) there is high pitched buzz from the speakers that I can hear quite loudly from the sofa)

This only happens on Input 1 - This amp will definately be exchanged on Saturday.

Sounds like an earth issue, what is plugged into input 1?

 

[Covenanter]

Steve, the problems just seem to be mounting up. First your strange sound problem on Elicit-R 1, then the humming on Elicit-R 2, and now this new issue on Elicit-R 2, not to mention the other forum member who had a channel fail on his Elicit-R.

I know you love the sound, but how long do you want to keep being Rega's quality control?

For me this new issue would be the final straw. I wouldn't expect these issues on a £300 amp, never mind a £1600 one.

Absolutely right. If they can't make an amp that doesn't hum ...

Chris

 

[matthewpiano]

Steve, the problems just seem to be mounting up. First your strange sound problem on Elicit-R 1, then the humming on Elicit-R 2, and now this new issue on Elicit-R 2, not to mention the other forum member who had a channel fail on his Elicit-R.

I know you love the sound, but how long do you want to keep being Rega's quality control?

For me this new issue would be the final straw. I wouldn't expect these issues on a £300 amp, never mind a £1600 one.

Absolutely right. If they can't make an amp that doesn't hum ...

Chris

I think the hum on its own is something that could be dealt with, particularly as Rega have offered support and Cymbiosis seem to be providing a good standard of customer service to Steve. Rega have even offered to help out if the humming can be attributed to Steve's power supply, which is beyond the call.

However, the evidence is starting to mount up against this amp and, along with those who have had issues with Brio-Rs (as well as some of the issues that plagued the Brio 3), I'm not sure that Rega are as on top of the quality control as they need to be.

 

[radiorog]

I've been away from this thread as I don't own a Elicit R and didn't like it in my system. But the thread is going off topic and now people are talking about Rega Brio R, let me add that my Brio R was in my rack for 1 year turn on 24/7 and never humed!!!

Rega sold this AMAZING amp by the hudreds and if all humed Rega had a big problem in hands, i think it's a bit unfair saing that Rega has a "genetic" problem.

I understand your concerns about bringing the brio r into this thread, but I was raising my concerns that it does appear to be an issue rega has in general with some of its amps.

I understand too that many people have had no issue, but I went through 4 amps in a month, and 3 had excessive humming, 1 was buzzing like a drill with buzzing also coming out of speakers. To me, 3 out of 4 buzzing amps seemed to be statistically relevant to warrant me posting some concerns I experiences.

I was very sad to let mine go, but needed to cash in the money as my system is growing by the hour...

Enjoy your Brio R and if you don't already have, you need to buy a TT and take full advantage of the built in Phono stage... :twisted:

Thanks outlaw, yeah, it is a cracker of an amp.maybe the TT will be on the cards in the future ;-)

 

[matt49]

Steve,

I'm sure you don't need yet another person pitching in and telling you what to do. You'll make the decision that's right for you.

But if you decide to say goodbye to the Elicit-R, do have a listen to a Sugden A21. It might be right down your street.

Good luck!

Matt

 

[stevebrock]

Input 1 is the in built phono stage

However when I unplug the TT from Input 1 the humming is worse!!!!!!!

 

[davedotco]

Input 1 is the in built phono stage

However when I unplug the TT from Input 1 the humming is worse!!!!!!!

A high gain input will be noisy if it is open circuit, nothing unusual in this.

The best way to check is to use shorting plugs and check for noise then, it will be higher than the line inputs as there is a lot more gain, again this is normal.

Impossible to be sure from a distance, but it sounds like a grounding issue.

What is your player, cartridge etc?

 

[stevebrock]

RP6 nagaoka mp200

 

[CJSF]

I said it earlier in the tread, Rage now how to make 'Turntables' . . . £1600 . . . Jesus, the expensive bits are the transformer and the case so you say, the rest is peanuts in solid state terms? Take a look at an Icon Stereo 40 MKIII valve amp. Two, layer type conventional transformers, some serious engineering in the casing, motorised volume control, biasing meter, eight valves plugging into quality ceramic sockets, it weighs 25kgs, the lions share of which is in the transformer iron.

Take a peak inside, it is a 'PCB less' work of art, hand wired point to point. Sounds great and the sound can be adjusted to your liking with a little swapping of valves. For instance, it comes with a 274B full wave rectifier, I found this produced a classic valve sound, swapped mine for a GZ34, IMHO, still a valve sound but a little more modern and open sounding, cost of the change £17.00.

It operates in triod or ultra-linier mode, 20w or 40w respectivly, triode is prefered by myself. There is no audible hum after 3 feet away , I sit a meter away from the volume control knob, which is at ear level . . . O yes, cost, about the same as the Rega unit, or less depending on which output valves you opt for.

Some real engineering value for money . . . with a valve sound and performance that many hanker for, but wont take the plung?

Down side, the Icon requires a separate phono stage, plenty of them recommended here? Go valve, and you get val(v)ue for money, IMHO . . . and it contributes to the house heating costs as well :rofl:

CJSF

 

[Jim-W]

I'd stick with Rega, steve. This is a live forum and, doubtless, Rega are monitoring the comments. As compensation for all the trouble that you've had and as a way of demonstating their excellent cusomer care, I think you're due a very large goody-bag. I'm thinking an RP10 here. As others have pointed out, nothing costing £1,600 should have issues. Rega turntables, amps and speakers could be brilliant value for money if only they'd sort their q c out.

 

[davedotco]

RP6 nagaoka mp200

No point in fretting until you get the new amplifier.

Let me know what happens then.