Rega Elicit-R Soundstage?

[Andrewjvt]

In all honesty, I've never heard this mythical "soundstage" with any music reproduction system. Yes, there's a sense of presence, and occasionally sounds appear to come from beyond the width of the speakers, but it's hardly 3D, and  nothing like a good 3D film experience, which let's be honest, isn't that great either. I've also never heard a sound that appears to be emanating from a source in front of the speakers, only ever behind. Personally, it's the least critical part of assessing a system, if only because stereo is so fundamentally constrained. However, I do think that a realistic surround-sound effect would be far more entertaining and satisfying than any tonal response characteristics.
[what he just said]

 

[Andrewjvt]

I think when we read reviews and the reviewer says something like "it as a thin soundstage" or something like that we as customers or potential buyers tend to panic and think its really a big deal but they are most times only very subtle differences and most people cant notice. I used to read reviews and be swayed from one product to another. Lucky i never had the spare cash at that stage. Now i take reviews with a pinch of salt.

 

[plastic penguin]

Hello Pastic Penguin

PCM Twenty 23 then minght be a good match for the Rega. I am compiling a short list for speakers to audition later this year so I greatly appreciate the advice. Regarding the Elicit-R lean character, I had a strange personal experience. Monitor Audio speakers have a reputation for being bright (some disagree of course). My personal experience with the RX1s + Arcam A19 was that they were perfect but not at high volume. They would then sound bright in my living room. I went to audition the Elicit-R with the RX1s (aiming to upgrade them later) expecting them to sound even brighter (see reviews of the Elicit-R). To my surprise, they sounded OK(ish). I am going to upgrade them anyway so I want them to sound ok for the time being. Then I ordered the Elicit-R and took it home. First week... sound was super warm. Second week.. unbearably bright. Third week... just right. Fourth week... sometimes bright, sometimes not.

As I am planning to upgrade the speakers I don't mind all this but as my brain adjusts to the amp I find it not as bright as some reviews suggest.

In any case, PMCs are in the short list of speakers to audition

Many thanks

I'm also a newcomer. Or should say second coming.

All hi-fi, to get the best from them, is about synergy. Arcam generally love MA speakers. Having heard the Elicit-R with PMC Twenty 23 speakers the soundstage was expansive, highly detailed.

However, I did comment on this forum about the similarities between the Rega and my Leema. They both sound involved, if ever so slightly on the lean side. But this is in comparison to Audio Analogue, Roksan Caspian and Naim XS models.

Personally speaking I would point towards your speakers. Good as they are, I think more benefit could be had by using Rega RS3 or PMC older 'i' speakers, which I use with the Leema.

I'm a huge Arcam fanboy, and have owned Arc amps for about 14 years. Their biggest achilles heel, IMHO, is they are great at low volumes but can be caught out when cranked up. I experienced the same thing: Thin, harsh sound. And given the A19 is only 50 watts per channel it will have its threshold.

This is where better quality amps like the Rega holds the ace card (same with any good midrange amps): Control over the speakers.

As regards speakers I would be looking at PMC, Rega's own, Dynaudio, Spendor... they will have their own distinct traits. So the only advice is to audition as many different brands of speaker as possible.

 

[SteveR750]

Good link Cno, and I think personally that imagery is more important, for studio mixed music. I've dabbled with home recording, and stereo positioning, adding ambience; it's easy to add a sense of room depth, but ultimately it's all artificial. I'm convinced the only true way to capture a realistic sound stage is an acoustic crossed pair, and nothing else.

I strongly suspect that simple is best, for realisitic Soundstage....some of those 1950s Jazz recordings are stunning.

Indeed they are. A lot of classical and opera similarly so. If you go and watch the latter, there is a very narrow soundstage in most theatres, so why would a recording be any different. Imagery is where it's at.

 

[SteveR750]

In all honesty, I've never heard this mythical "soundstage" with any music reproduction system. Yes, there's a sense of presence, and occasionally sounds appear to come from beyond the width of the speakers, but it's hardly 3D, and nothing like a good 3D film experience, which let's be honest, isn't that great either. I've also never heard a sound that appears to be emanating from a source in front of the speakers, only ever behind. Personally, it's the least critical part of assessing a system, if only because stereo is so fundamentally constrained. However, I do think that a realistic surround-sound effect would be far more entertaining and satisfying than any tonal response characteristics.

You need to come and listen to my system Steve.

Love to, though I live in one of the 6 corners of the UK.

 

[SteveR750]

I know what a soundstage is- it's the aural image that you "see" most clearly when you close your eyes.

Can an amplifier change it? Well yes it can if it distorts the signal so as to change the ratio of the signals from the two speakers or it distorts the signal so that incorrect levels are presented to the speakers. Is either of those likely with modern amplifier design? No it is very unlikely. Pretty much all modern amplifiers have distortion levels well below anything humans can hear and that includes the differences between Class A and Class B. Soit seems very unlikely that an amplifier is going to affect the soundstage.

So what does affect soundstage? First and foremost it's the recording. In classical recordings it comes down to the placement of the instruments and that is particularly noticeable in pieces such as piano concertos where in bad recordings the piano is too loud which pushes it forward or too soft which pushes it backwards. Secondly it's the speaker / room combination and the geometry to the listening position. There are so many variables in that area that you can spend hours and days getting it right.

So IMO to get a good soundstage you should (a) buy good recordings and (b) experiment with your speakers until you are happy. As for the amplifier, as long as it is powerful enough to drive the speakers and is a modern design the I very much doubt it will have any effect at all.

Chris

Agreed, and its down to the room again. I've owned Spendors and Proacs which are allegedly holographic. These things are relative, no stereo speakers on the planet are capable of reproducing 3d lifelike sound. Even the ATCs that are supposedly weak in this area manage to make some sounds outside of their envelope, even behind me on one occasion; but that's room acoustics. No amp I have owned has made any difference, including my ancient NAD 3130.

 

[pauln]

http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/390awsi/index.html

 

[Laurens_B]

http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/390awsi/index.html

Interesting read, thanks!

As I think Vlad posted earlier, the video of John Atkinson explaining loudspeaker measurements, long video but very interesting as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j77VKw9Kx6U

 

[YiannisK]

Very interesting indeed! Many thanks for sharing this

http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/390awsi/index.html

 

[CnoEvil]

Good thread, with some interesting points being made.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I know what a sounds stage is- it's the aural image that you "see" most clearly when you close your eyes.

Can an amplifier change it?  Well yes it can if it distorts the signal so as to change the ratio of the signals from the two speakers or it distorts the signal so that incorrect levels are presented to the speakers.  Is either of those likely with modern amplifier design?  No it is very unlikely.  Pretty much all modern amplifiers have distortion levels well below anything humans can hear and that includes the differences between Class A and Class B.  Soit seems very unlikely that an amplifier is going to affect the soundstage.

So what does affect soundstage?  First and foremost it's the recording.  In classical recordings it comes down to the placement of the instruments and that is particularly noticeable in pieces such as piano concertos where in bad recordings the piano is too loud which pushes it forward or too soft which pushes it backwards.  Secondly it's the speaker / room combination and the geometry to the listening position.  There are so many variables in that area that you can spend hours and days getting it right.

So IMO to get a good soundstage you should (a) buy good recordings and (b) experiment with your speakers until you are happy.  As for the amplifier, as long as it is powerful enough to drive the speakers and is a modern design the I very much doubt it will have any effect at all.

Chris

 

There is so much wrong with this post, a contradictory effort.

Have you ever heard an amp with a DSP - Jazz, concert hall, etc. Have you heard the difference it makes to music.

Have you heard an amp with good power delivery drive a pair of speakers and compared it with a lesser designed amp driving the same speakers?

Recorded music is fixed. It will not change from device to device. It is what it is.

I mean even volume effects the 'soundstage' in terms of depth. ...your 'opinion' could not be more wrong.

 

[Covenanter]

I know what a sounds stage is- it's the aural image that you "see" most clearly when you close your eyes.

Can an amplifier change it? Well yes it can if it distorts the signal so as to change the ratio of the signals from the two speakers or it distorts the signal so that incorrect levels are presented to the speakers. Is either of those likely with modern amplifier design? No it is very unlikely. Pretty much all modern amplifiers have distortion levels well below anything humans can hear and that includes the differences between Class A and Class B. Soit seems very unlikely that an amplifier is going to affect the soundstage.

So what does affect soundstage? First and foremost it's the recording. In classical recordings it comes down to the placement of the instruments and that is particularly noticeable in pieces such as piano concertos where in bad recordings the piano is too loud which pushes it forward or too soft which pushes it backwards. Secondly it's the speaker / room combination and the geometry to the listening position. There are so many variables in that area that you can spend hours and days getting it right.

So IMO to get a good soundstage you should (a) buy good recordings and (b) experiment with your speakers until you are happy. As for the amplifier, as long as it is powerful enough to drive the speakers and is a modern design the I very much doubt it will have any effect at all.

Chris

There is so much wrong with this post, a contradictory effort.

Have you ever heard an amp with a DSP - Jazz, concert hall, etc. Have you heard the difference it makes to music.

Have you heard an amp with good power delivery drive a pair of speakers and compared it with a lesser designed amp driving the same speakers?

Recorded music is fixed. It will not change from device to device. It is what it is.

I mean even volume effects the 'soundstage' in terms of depth. ...your 'opinion' could not be more wrong.

Can you actually read?

Chris

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I know what a sounds stage is- it's the aural image that you "see" most clearly when you close your eyes.

Can an amplifier change it?  Well yes it can if it distorts the signal so as to change the ratio of the signals from the two speakers or it distorts the signal so that incorrect levels are presented to the speakers.  Is either of those likely with modern amplifier design?  No it is very unlikely.  Pretty much all modern amplifiers have distortion levels well below anything humans can hear and that includes the differences between Class A and Class B.  Soit seems very unlikely that an amplifier is going to affect the soundstage.

So what does affect soundstage?  First and foremost it's the recording.  In classical recordings it comes down to the placement of the instruments and that is particularly noticeable in pieces such as piano concertos where in bad recordings the piano is too loud which pushes it forward or too soft which pushes it backwards.  Secondly it's the speaker / room combination and the geometry to the listening position.  There are so many variables in that area that you can spend hours and days getting it right.

So IMO to get a good soundstage you should (a) buy good recordings and (b) experiment with your speakers until you are happy.  As for the amplifier, as long as it is powerful enough to drive the speakers and is a modern design the I very much doubt it will have any effect at all.

Chris

?

There is so much wrong with this post, a contradictory effort.

Have you ever heard an amp with a DSP - Jazz, concert hall, etc. Have you heard the difference it makes to music.

Have you heard an amp with good power delivery drive a pair of speakers and compared it with a lesser designed amp driving the same speakers?

Recorded music is fixed. It will not change from device to device. It is what it is.

I mean even volume effects the 'soundstage' in terms of depth. ...your 'opinion' could not be more wrong.

Can you actually read?

Chris

Yes, yes I can.

More relevant question is do you know what you're talking about?

 

[CnoEvil]

Good thread, with some interesting points being made.

Oops, I spoke too soon.....commentators curse, I suppose. *sad*

 

[jonathanRD]

Why cant we just give our opinions rather than rubbishing someone else's?

This thead was interesting and contained varied opinions - not all agreeing with each other.

I am sure there are a lot of people who might join in far more often if it wasn't for the fear of being poked in the eye if someone else thinks they are wrong.*stop*

 

[matthewpiano]

In my experience speakers do have a big impact on a system's capacity to properly recreate the soundstage or stereo image captured in the recording. In particular I've found that smaller, stand-mounted designs tend to succeed more convincingly than many floorstanders in this regard. This is one of the things that makes the LS3/5a such a wonderful loudspeaker, even with its obvious limitations in frequency range, and more recent monitor speakers with good quality drive units such as Dynaudio's DM2/6, PMC's DB1i, and Spendor's S3/5R have successfully built further on those skills.

 

[YiannisK]

I would like to add that I really appreciate the information and experiences you are all sharing. Almost like a free hifi education

Why cant we just give our opinions rather than rubbishing someone else's?

This thead was interesting and contained varied opinions - not all agreeing with each other.

I am sure there are a lot of people who might join in far more often if it wasn't for the fear of being poked in the eye if someone else thinks they are wrong.*stop*

 

[YiannisK]

Hi Matthew,

I am with you on that and my personal limited experiences with hifi are in line with what you are saying. However, for the sake of constructive arguent, let us consider this: Say we were to test two amplifiers that according to reviews are very very 'distinct'. I can think of Naim as one example and perhaps a Creek as a distinctly different sound (?). If we keep every variable constant (person listening, music track, speakers, cables, time of day, level matched sound, room ec) and we then proceed to swap the amplifier from a Naim to a Creek (assume we do a blind testing), do you think that the person listening will not be able to tell the amplifiers apart?

I used the examples of Naim and Creek simply because I think they are described by numerous reviews as quite distinct sounding. In reference to my original thoughts about soundstage, Naim is usually discussed as poorly performing in that respect. Creek amplifiers on the other hand seem to be commonly described as less punchy but with huge soundstage.

I would be interested in your thoughts...

In my experience speakers do have a big impact on a system's capacity to properly recreate the soundstage or stereo image captured in the recording. In particular I've found that smaller, stand-mounted designs tend to succeed more convincingly than many floorstanders in this regard. This is one of the things that makes the LS3/5a such a wonderful loudspeaker, even with its obvious limitations in frequency range, and more recent monitor speakers with good quality drive units such as Dynaudio's DM2/6, PMC's DB1i, and Spendor's S3/5R have successfully built further on those skills.

 

[plastic penguin]

Hi Matthew,

I am with you on that and my personal limited experiences with hifi are in line with what you are saying. However, for the sake of constructive arguent, let us consider this: Say we were to test two amplifiers that according to reviews are very very 'distinct'. I can think of Naim as one example and perhaps a Creek as a distinctly different sound (?). If we keep every variable constant (person listening, music track, speakers, cables, time of day, level matched sound, room ec) and we then proceed to swap the amplifier from a Naim to a Creek (assume we do a blind testing), do you think that the person listening will not be able to tell the amplifiers apart?

I used the examples of Naim and Creek simply because I think they are described by numerous reviews as quite distinct sounding. In reference to my original thoughts about soundstage, Naim is usually discussed as poorly performing in that respect. Creek amplifiers on the other hand seem to be commonly described as less punchy but with huge soundstage.

I would be interested in your thoughts...

In my experience speakers do have a big impact on a system's capacity to properly recreate the soundstage or stereo image captured in the recording. In particular I've found that smaller, stand-mounted designs tend to succeed more convincingly than many floorstanders in this regard. This is one of the things that makes the LS3/5a such a wonderful loudspeaker, even with its obvious limitations in frequency range, and more recent monitor speakers with good quality drive units such as Dynaudio's DM2/6, PMC's DB1i, and Spendor's S3/5R have successfully built further on those skills.

Sorry for butting in but...

Generally speaking there's little in overall SQ between a good £500 amp and a good £1500.

Firstly, I wouldn't describe Creek as distinctive. The word distinctive are amps that push the sonic envelope, if you like: Naim, Cyrus (there are others) at one end of the scale, while Class A and valve amps at the other end. Each will be comparatively fractious with the respective yay and naysayers.

However, some amps, like Naim and Cyrus can provoke fatigue if paired with the wrong speakers and/or source. On the flipside, Class A and valve amps can be perceived as sounding a little too dark and lack sonic zeal, whereas Creek and Arcam tend to be seen as holding the middle ground.

For example, when I owned MA RS6s Naim Nait 5i sounded s###e, but my Arcam and Creek Evo2 sounded sweet and musical with the same speakers.

The only way to successfully achieve a blind test with very different tonal amps is to match those amps with the correct speakers.

I have heard Naim amps with PMC speakers and sounded the dogs... same goes with Cyrus matched with Dynaudio speakers.

A great sounding system is solely about synergy: Once that ideal synergy is found then you hit the sweet spot -- and a very empty wallet. *biggrin*

 

[pauln]

I know what a sounds stage is- it's the aural image that you "see" most clearly when you close your eyes.

Can an amplifier change it? Well yes it can if it distorts the signal so as to change the ratio of the signals from the two speakers or it distorts the signal so that incorrect levels are presented to the speakers. Is either of those likely with modern amplifier design? No it is very unlikely. Pretty much all modern amplifiers have distortion levels well below anything humans can hear and that includes the differences between Class A and Class B. Soit seems very unlikely that an amplifier is going to affect the soundstage.

So what does affect soundstage? First and foremost it's the recording. In classical recordings it comes down to the placement of the instruments and that is particularly noticeable in pieces such as piano concertos where in bad recordings the piano is too loud which pushes it forward or too soft which pushes it backwards. Secondly it's the speaker / room combination and the geometry to the listening position. There are so many variables in that area that you can spend hours and days getting it right.

So IMO to get a good soundstage you should (a) buy good recordings and (b) experiment with your speakers until you are happy. As for the amplifier, as long as it is powerful enough to drive the speakers and is a modern design the I very much doubt it will have any effect at all.

Chris

There is so much wrong with this post, a contradictory effort.

Have you ever heard an amp with a DSP - Jazz, concert hall, etc. Have you heard the difference it makes to music.

Have you heard an amp with good power delivery drive a pair of speakers and compared it with a lesser designed amp driving the same speakers?

Recorded music is fixed. It will not change from device to device. It is what it is.

I mean even volume effects the 'soundstage' in terms of depth. ...your 'opinion' could not be more wrong.

Can you actually read?

Chris

Reading is the easy part, understanding is much harder.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I know what a sounds stage is- it's the aural image that you "see" most clearly when you close your eyes.

Can an amplifier change it?  Well yes it can if it distorts the signal so as to change the ratio of the signals from the two speakers or it distorts the signal so that incorrect levels are presented to the speakers.  Is either of those likely with modern amplifier design?  No it is very unlikely.  Pretty much all modern amplifiers have distortion levels well below anything humans can hear and that includes the differences between Class A and Class B.  Soit seems very unlikely that an amplifier is going to affect the soundstage.

So what does affect soundstage?  First and foremost it's the recording.  In classical recordings it comes down to the placement of the instruments and that is particularly noticeable in pieces such as piano concertos where in bad recordings the piano is too loud which pushes it forward or too soft which pushes it backwards.  Secondly it's the speaker / room combination and the geometry to the listening position.  There are so many variables in that area that you can spend hours and days getting it right.

So IMO to get a good soundstage you should (a) buy good recordings and (b) experiment with your speakers until you are happy.  As for the amplifier, as long as it is powerful enough to drive the speakers and is a modern design the I very much doubt it will have any effect at all.

Chris

?

There is so much wrong with this post, a contradictory effort.

Have you ever heard an amp with a DSP - Jazz, concert hall, etc. Have you heard the difference it makes to music.

Have you heard an amp with good power delivery drive a pair of speakers and compared it with a lesser designed amp driving the same speakers?

Recorded music is fixed. It will not change from device to device. It is what it is.

I mean even volume effects the 'soundstage' in terms of depth. ...your 'opinion' could not be more wrong.

Can you actually read?

Chris

Reading is the easy part, understanding is much harder.

Lol....

Look, I'm not trying to put anybody down or diss them - like the young folk say.

But c'mon, how are you going to argue 'if's'.... Then continue to argue all 'should' sound the same?

Different designs philosophys will yield different results - which become more apparent with time.

We know when all else remains the same in a set the sound can be completely altered with a press of a button.

So what makes you think a manufacturer cannot tune an amp to add its own signature?

 

[Covenanter]

I know what a sounds stage is- it's the aural image that you "see" most clearly when you close your eyes.

Can an amplifier change it? Well yes it can if it distorts the signal so as to change the ratio of the signals from the two speakers or it distorts the signal so that incorrect levels are presented to the speakers. Is either of those likely with modern amplifier design? No it is very unlikely. Pretty much all modern amplifiers have distortion levels well below anything humans can hear and that includes the differences between Class A and Class B. Soit seems very unlikely that an amplifier is going to affect the soundstage.

So what does affect soundstage? First and foremost it's the recording. In classical recordings it comes down to the placement of the instruments and that is particularly noticeable in pieces such as piano concertos where in bad recordings the piano is too loud which pushes it forward or too soft which pushes it backwards. Secondly it's the speaker / room combination and the geometry to the listening position. There are so many variables in that area that you can spend hours and days getting it right.

So IMO to get a good soundstage you should (a) buy good recordings and (b) experiment with your speakers until you are happy. As for the amplifier, as long as it is powerful enough to drive the speakers and is a modern design the I very much doubt it will have any effect at all.

Chris

There is so much wrong with this post, a contradictory effort.

Have you ever heard an amp with a DSP - Jazz, concert hall, etc. Have you heard the difference it makes to music.

Have you heard an amp with good power delivery drive a pair of speakers and compared it with a lesser designed amp driving the same speakers?

Recorded music is fixed. It will not change from device to device. It is what it is.

I mean even volume effects the 'soundstage' in terms of depth. ...your 'opinion' could not be more wrong.

Can you actually read?

Chris

Reading is the easy part, understanding is much harder.

Lol....

Look, I'm not trying to put anybody down or diss them - like the young folk say.

But c'mon, how are you going to argue 'if's'.... Then continue to argue all 'should' sound the same?

Different designs philosophys will yield different results - which become more apparent with time.

We know when all else remains the same in a set the sound can be completely altered with a press of a button.

So what makes you think a manufacturer cannot tune an amp to add its own signature?

I'll try again! What do you mean by "tune"?

Chris

 

[matthewpiano]

Hi Matthew,

I am with you on that and my personal limited experiences with hifi are in line with what you are saying. However, for the sake of constructive arguent, let us consider this: Say we were to test two amplifiers that according to reviews are very very 'distinct'. I can think of Naim as one example and perhaps a Creek as a distinctly different sound (?). If we keep every variable constant (person listening, music track, speakers, cables, time of day, level matched sound, room ec) and we then proceed to swap the amplifier from a Naim to a Creek (assume we do a blind testing), do you think that the person listening will not be able to tell the amplifiers apart?

I used the examples of Naim and Creek simply because I think they are described by numerous reviews as quite distinct sounding. In reference to my original thoughts about soundstage, Naim is usually discussed as poorly performing in that respect. Creek amplifiers on the other hand seem to be commonly described as less punchy but with huge soundstage.

I would be interested in your thoughts...

In my experience speakers do have a big impact on a system's capacity to properly recreate the soundstage or stereo image captured in the recording. In particular I've found that smaller, stand-mounted designs tend to succeed more convincingly than many floorstanders in this regard. This is one of the things that makes the LS3/5a such a wonderful loudspeaker, even with its obvious limitations in frequency range, and more recent monitor speakers with good quality drive units such as Dynaudio's DM2/6, PMC's DB1i, and Spendor's S3/5R have successfully built further on those skills.

Hi YiannisK I'm not part of the camp that thinks amplifiers all sound alike, and I certainly think the amp can have an effect on many aspects of the overall sound, including soundstaging. One of the reasons I've always loved the Pioneer A400 amp and kept going back to it is the excellent control it seems to exhibit over expressing the positions of instruments in the mix, where these positions have been properly thought about by the recording engineer.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I know what a sounds stage is- it's the aural image that you "see" most clearly when you close your eyes.

Can an amplifier change it?  Well yes it can if it distorts the signal so as to change the ratio of the signals from the two speakers or it distorts the signal so that incorrect levels are presented to the speakers.  Is either of those likely with modern amplifier design?  No it is very unlikely.  Pretty much all modern amplifiers have distortion levels well below anything humans can hear and that includes the differences between Class A and Class B.  Soit seems very unlikely that an amplifier is going to affect the soundstage.

So what does affect soundstage?  First and foremost it's the recording.  In classical recordings it comes down to the placement of the instruments and that is particularly noticeable in pieces such as piano concertos where in bad recordings the piano is too loud which pushes it forward or too soft which pushes it backwards.  Secondly it's the speaker / room combination and the geometry to the listening position.  There are so many variables in that area that you can spend hours and days getting it right.

So IMO to get a good soundstage you should (a) buy good recordings and (b) experiment with your speakers until you are happy.  As for the amplifier, as long as it is powerful enough to drive the speakers and is a modern design the I very much doubt it will have any effect at all.

Chris

?

There is so much wrong with this post, a contradictory effort.

Have you ever heard an amp with a DSP - Jazz, concert hall, etc. Have you heard the difference it makes to music.

Have you heard an amp with good power delivery drive a pair of speakers and compared it with a lesser designed amp driving the same speakers?

Recorded music is fixed. It will not change from device to device. It is what it is.

I mean even volume effects the 'soundstage' in terms of depth. ...your 'opinion' could not be more wrong.

Can you actually read?

Chris

Reading is the easy part, understanding is much harder.

Lol....

Look, I'm not trying to put anybody down or diss them - like the young folk say.

But c'mon, how are you going to argue 'if's'.... Then continue to argue all 'should' sound the same?

Different designs philosophys will yield different results - which become more apparent with time.

We know when all else remains the same in a set the sound can be completely altered with a press of a button.

So what makes you think a manufacturer cannot tune an amp to add its own signature?

I'll try again!  What do you mean by "tune"?

Chris

Last time out someone asked me to explain 'assertive' ref an interconnect - opened up a can a worms.

Tune - manipulate the signal as it passes from input of an amp across its innards to the output of an amp.

Some amps deliver a better mid-range, ambient detail some a more detailed presentation others more bass.

This is by design.

I recall when Cyrus had to change certain materials in their Amps that resulted in a more robust sound according to WHF....

But I suspect you know exactly what's meant by the term.....

 

[pyrrhon]

Hi Yiannisk,

I remember Lionel Schmitt commenting very positively on the Elicit older model paired with Proac d15. He said that Elicit was a bit grainy and required very carefull speaker matching. That could still be true with the newer Elicit. I have also found mitigated comments ont the elicit wich leads me to think its picky with speaker match.

When I heard the Rega smaller Elex-R it had a great soundstage with Vienna Acoustics Beethoven. I would not be worried, your amp will do wide soundstage but probably with another speaker. I own proacs studio 148 (with nait 5si) and they stage wide and toward me to a point I cant beleive.