Rega Elicit R - Happy

[Macspur]

It's great that Rega are taking this matter so seriously and doing everything to rectify the problem, but there does come a time when enough is enough!

Personally, I would be concerned about the time, God forbid, when the amp plays up just outside the warrantee. I went through a similar experience a few years ago with a Creek amp... had to go back twice for repair, but after the third, that was it for me.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[stevebrock]

It's great that Rega are taking this matter so seriously and doing everything to rectify the problem, but there does come a time when enough is enough!

Personally, I would be concerned about the time, God forbid, when the amp plays up just outside the warrantee. I went through a similar experience a few years ago with a Creek amp... had to go back twice for repair, but after the third, that was it for me.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

Yes that is what concerns me!

However even looking at other amps yet alone auditionong is going to be diffucult - the problem thet I have at the moment appears to be a charactertistic of the amp - it cant be my mains as my 'other' Elicit was quiet.

I love the Rega sound, also worried how another amp will go with my current speakers (Rega RS3)

 

[Vladimir]

So much estrogen over a loose nut.

 

[plastic penguin]

Just to clarify, it is the actual amp that is buzzing - not humming from the speakers!

In a quiet room it is noticable, however now I know it is there I am constantly aware of it especailly with quiet passages of music.

I know it isn't from the speakers. I just commented on the 'only noise I can hear is a soft hiss from the speakers at full volume'.

I do share Mac's concern, in addition to how many more times will you let this happen before you get totally p****ed off and go elsewhere. All well and good the guy from Rega being so helpful on a hi-fi forum, but clearly there's a genetic problem: Another poster said his 3 Brio-R have hummed. Obviously this is not a on-off situation. Add to this the "dull" SQ of the previous amp and the turntable issues Rega, clearly, aren't covering themselves with glory.

 

[BigH]

It's great that Rega are taking this matter so seriously and doing everything to rectify the problem, but there does come a time when enough is enough!

Personally, I would be concerned about the time, God forbid, when the amp plays up just outside the warrantee. I went through a similar experience a few years ago with a Creek amp... had to go back twice for repair, but after the third, that was it for me.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

Yes that is what concerns me!

However even looking at other amps yet alone auditionong is going to be diffucult - the problem thet I have at the moment appears to be a charactertistic of the amp - it cant be my mains as my 'other' Elicit was quiet.

I love the Rega sound, also worried how another amp will go with my current speakers (Rega RS3)

I think you are at a crossroads now, get a refund and buy some other brand, try another Rega amp then what if that goes wrong next year? Or use some sort of filter (DC) to get rid of the hum. You say you love the Rega sound but have you tried other brands like Creek, Electrocompaniet, Sugden, Exposure and Leema? I know you have tried Naim, but there are quite a few people who have had problems with Naim, in fact one Naim rep. is reported to have said if you don't like the hum put it in a cupboard. Just look at the Naim forum.

 

[chebby]

All well and good the guy from Rega being so helpful on a hi-fi forum, but clearly there's a genetic problem:

That's a bit below the belt. (Although 'the guy from Rega' being called Paul Darwin lends a certain irony to your unconscious stab at wit!)

 

[plastic penguin]

All well and good the guy from Rega being so helpful on a hi-fi forum, but clearly there's a genetic problem:

That's a bit below the belt. (Although 'the guy from Rega' being called Paul Darwin lends a certain irony to your unconscious stab at wit!)

Just speaking the truth. How many posts has Mr. Darwin made? If he or any other Rega employees or management contributed on a regular basis that would be acceptable. But they haven't until the muck hit the fan recently.

I've been around the block too many times and dealt with enough companies/employees.... I'm not palmed off that easily. On the flipside, when they do things well (no customer complaints) then I'm one of the first to acknowledge that: Credit where credit's due.

My reaction would be exactly the same with Leema: If the darn headphone socket messes about again, then it's gone. History.

If it's an inherent problem how will he work with Steve to sort the hum out? It'll be interesting to follow the path that eliminates the problem.

 

[chebby]

All well and good the guy from Rega being so helpful on a hi-fi forum, but clearly there's a genetic problem:

That's a bit below the belt. (Although 'the guy from Rega' being called Paul Darwin lends a certain irony to your unconscious stab at wit!)

Just speaking the truth. How many posts has Mr. Darwin made? If he or any other Rega employees or management contributed on a regular basis that would be acceptable. But they haven't until the muck hit the fan recently.

Still no reason to accuse Mr Darwn of having a "genetic problem".

 

[Native_bon]

This is not the first time i have heard about rega amps huming on this forum.. Yes friendly & helpful... Its like saying someone is on the other end of the phone line very friendly & helpful, but is of no use what so ever to solve the problem.

Its about time REGA looks seriuosly into this problem.

 

[Vladimir]

Anyone know what brand of transformers Rega uses?

Roksan uses NORATEL and Naim uses TALEMA.

 

[Vladimir]

I think Rega uses custom made Trans-Tronic Transformers from their incorporated brand Antrim Transformers.

 

[Richard Allen]

Hi.

For what it's worth, I'm building an amp and I went to a toroid maker and gave him the spec I needed and he went out of his way to warn me that toroids do tend to hum a bit. When I asked him why he said that no 2 toroids are EXACTLY the same. One might buzz a bit under load and another won't. I asked him why and what I was told was that toroids are essentially wound as 1 offs. At which point I said to increase the Va of the toroid and he advised me that if he did that the sound quality of the amp could be compromised ( spelt that right?? ).

With large transformers, the toroid is the less expensive way to go. True, a laminate won't buzz like that but it'll be twice the cost and huge and weigh a ton. Just seems to be something with toroids which seems to be exaggerated with 'c**p' on the mains line sometimes.

That's the way it was explained to me anyway.

I know this doesn't help the OP though because it's annoying when it happens although out of all the toroids I've used over the years, most of them have been NOVATEL and none of them have buzzed. Not even the 1000Va.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

I've been away from this thread as I don't own a Elicit R and didn't like it in my system. But the thread is going off topic and now people are talking about Rega Brio R, let me add that my Brio R was in my rack for 1 year turn on 24/7 and never humed!!!

Rega sold this AMAZING amp by the hudreds and if all humed Rega had a big problem in hands, i think it's a bit unfair saing that Rega has a "genetic" problem.

 

[Vladimir]

I know this doesn't help the OP though because it's annoying when it happens although out of all the toroids I've used over the years, most of them have been NOVATEL and none of them have buzzed. Not even the 1000Va.

NORATEL.

I have yet to hear a Noratel or a Talema hum. They are very well made.

 

[davedotco]

Hi.

For what it's worth, I'm building an amp and I went to a toroid maker and gave him the spec I needed and he went out of his way to warn me that toroids do tend to hum a bit. When I asked him why he said that no 2 toroids are EXACTLY the same. One might buzz a bit under load and another won't. I asked him why and what I was told was that toroids are essentially wound as 1 offs. At which point I said to increase the Va of the toroid and he advised me that if he did that the sound quality of the amp could be compromised ( spelt that right?? ).

With large transformers, the toroid is the less expensive way to go. True, a laminate won't buzz like that but it'll be twice the cost and huge and weigh a ton. Just seems to be something with toroids which seems to be exaggerated with 'c**p' on the mains line sometimes.

That's the way it was explained to me anyway.

I know this doesn't help the OP though because it's annoying when it happens although out of all the toroids I've used over the years, most of them have been NOVATEL and none of them have buzzed. Not even the 1000Va.

It is the combination of the characteristics of the toroid and the characteristics of the mains distortion that cause the problem. I have experienced mains so poor that virtually any piece of kit that you try will hum and buzz but that does not appear to be the issue here.

The previous amplifier was quiet and the likelyhood is that the next one you try will be too, inconveniant sure but surely not that big an issue when you have the assurance of the manufacturer that it will be sorted.

The reality is that this is a (relatively) mass produced amplifier built to come to market at about £1500. The transformer is, along with the case, the most expensive component in the amplifier so costs here are crucial.

As Richard points out a laminated transformer will be far more expensive, a 'guaranteed' noise free toroid could probably by built at a price, but would anyone buy an Ellicit-R at £2500?

And why should theyhave to, in my experience this sort of problem is relatively rare, and the number that can not be solved by swapping the amp for another sample rarer still. The amp is fine value for 90+% of the people who purchase it, that's just the way it is.

Edit. In my experience all brands of transformers that I have seen used in hi-fi can hum and buzz in certain situations.

 

[Native_bon]

Hi.

For what it's worth, I'm building an amp and I went to a toroid maker and gave him the spec I needed and he went out of his way to warn me that toroids do tend to hum a bit. When I asked him why he said that no 2 toroids are EXACTLY the same. One might buzz a bit under load and another won't. I asked him why and what I was told was that toroids are essentially wound as 1 offs. At which point I said to increase the Va of the toroid and he advised me that if he did that the sound quality of the amp could be compromised ( spelt that right?? ).

With large transformers, the toroid is the less expensive way to go. True, a laminate won't buzz like that but it'll be twice the cost and huge and weigh a ton. Just seems to be something with toroids which seems to be exaggerated with 'c**p' on the mains line sometimes.

That's the way it was explained to me anyway.

I know this doesn't help the OP though because it's annoying when it happens although out of all the toroids I've used over the years, most of them have been NOVATEL and none of them have buzzed. Not even the 1000Va.

It is the combination of the characteristics of the toroid and the characteristics of the mains distortion that cause the problem. I have experienced mains so poor that virtually any piece of kit that you try will hum and buzz but that does not appear to be the issue here.

The previous amplifier was quiet and the likelyhood is that the next one you try will be too, inconveniant sure but surely not that big an issue when you have the assurance of the manufacturer that it will be sorted.

The reality is that this is a (relatively) mass produced amplifier built to come to market at about £1500. The transformer is, along with the case, the most expensive component in the amplifier so costs here are crucial.

As Richard points out a laminated transformer will be far more expensive, a 'guaranteed' noise free toroid could probably by built at a price, but would anyone buy an Ellicit-R at £2500?

And why should theyhave to, in my experience this sort of problem is relatively rare, and the number that can not be solved by swapping the amp for another sample rarer still. The amp is fine value for 90+% of the people who purchase it, that's just the way it is.

Edit. In my experience all brands of transformers that I have seen used in hi-fi can hum and buzz in certain situations.

Thats not just the it is... The way it is.. is do something about it. when you get so many people having the same problem from the same company then its a bad design. When this topic was brought up last year so many people report the same problems of huming.. with rega amps so this is not a case of just a one of or few amps..

I have bought some many amps including cambridge audio which uses a lot of toroid mains power & never once did I hear any huming...

 

[Vladimir]

Toroid transformers are superior to laminated in every way. Laminated also humm, buzz, drip black goo etc.

If you bought a cheap dull knife, exchanging it for sharp flint rock to cut your cheese isn't the smartest way to go.

 

[drummerman]

Toroid transformers are superior to laminated in every way. Laminated also humm, buzz, drip black goo etc.

If you bought a cheap dull knife, exchanging it for sharp flint rock to cut your cheese isn't the smartest way to go.

Ah, is that why Audio Research, McIntosh to name two still predominantly use Frame transformers ...

regards

 

[davedotco]

Hi.

For what it's worth, I'm building an amp and I went to a toroid maker and gave him the spec I needed and he went out of his way to warn me that toroids do tend to hum a bit. When I asked him why he said that no 2 toroids are EXACTLY the same. One might buzz a bit under load and another won't. I asked him why and what I was told was that toroids are essentially wound as 1 offs. At which point I said to increase the Va of the toroid and he advised me that if he did that the sound quality of the amp could be compromised ( spelt that right?? ).

With large transformers, the toroid is the less expensive way to go. True, a laminate won't buzz like that but it'll be twice the cost and huge and weigh a ton. Just seems to be something with toroids which seems to be exaggerated with 'c**p' on the mains line sometimes.

That's the way it was explained to me anyway.

I know this doesn't help the OP though because it's annoying when it happens although out of all the toroids I've used over the years, most of them have been NOVATEL and none of them have buzzed. Not even the 1000Va.

It is the combination of the characteristics of the toroid and the characteristics of the mains distortion that cause the problem. I have experienced mains so poor that virtually any piece of kit that you try will hum and buzz but that does not appear to be the issue here.

The previous amplifier was quiet and the likelyhood is that the next one you try will be too, inconveniant sure but surely not that big an issue when you have the assurance of the manufacturer that it will be sorted.

The reality is that this is a (relatively) mass produced amplifier built to come to market at about £1500. The transformer is, along with the case, the most expensive component in the amplifier so costs here are crucial.

As Richard points out a laminated transformer will be far more expensive, a 'guaranteed' noise free toroid could probably by built at a price, but would anyone buy an Ellicit-R at £2500?

And why should theyhave to, in my experience this sort of problem is relatively rare, and the number that can not be solved by swapping the amp for another sample rarer still. The amp is fine value for 90+% of the people who purchase it, that's just the way it is.

Edit. In my experience all brands of transformers that I have seen used in hi-fi can hum and buzz in certain situations.

Thats not just the it is... The way it is.. is do something about it. when you get so many people having the same problem from the same company then its a bad design. When this topic was brought up last year so many people report the same problems of huming.. with rega amps so this is not a case of just a one of or few amps..

I have bought some many amps including cambridge audio which uses a lot of toroid mains power & never once did I hear any huming...

You really don't get this do you?

It is a combination of circumstances that causes the issue, if you do not have those specific circumstances, you will not have a problem.

Your mains happen to be reasonably clean so you will not get a noise, if they are 'dirty' you may or may not get the noise.

Big toroids such as those used by Naim and Rega may be more susceptible to noise, but only in certain conditions. Naturally people who have an issue make a fuss, those, the vast majority, who do not have an issue, say nothing.

It's simple enough. You can put a big toroid in a £1500 amplifier, get a fantastc sound and for the vast majority a silent amplifier. Althernatively you can use a similarly priced but smaller transformer and get a less good sounding but perfectly quite (in all situations) amplifier.

It is not a "design fault", it is a business decision, hence my use of the phrase, 'that's just the way it is'.

 

[Richard Allen]

As Dave says, that is the way it is.

The main problem seems to come from dirty mains in these situations.

Example: Man 3 doors down your street uses a load of those mains ethernet plug thingies to connect his network and this will produce minute amounts of DC that float around on the mains. If you live next door to him you won't suffer. If you live next door but one you won't suffer. But if you live 3 doors either side of him, there's a chance you could suffer contaminated mains due to the fact that you're on the same electrical phase as he is.

To counteract this DC blockers are used I think within the IEC mains socket on the piece of HiFi equipment. If I'm wrong I'm sure Davedotco will correct me. EDIT!!!. Sometimes, 2 neoprene washers between the toroid and the chassis works.

 

[plastic penguin]

All well and good the guy from Rega being so helpful on a hi-fi forum, but clearly there's a genetic problem:

That's a bit below the belt. (Although 'the guy from Rega' being called Paul Darwin lends a certain irony to your unconscious stab at wit!)

Just speaking the truth. How many posts has Mr. Darwin made? If he or any other Rega employees or management contributed on a regular basis that would be acceptable. But they haven't until the muck hit the fan recently.

Still no reason to accuse Mr Darwn of having a "genetic problem".

Chebby I'm not accusing Mr. Darwin of having a personal issue, I'm talking about the "genetic problem" of their equipment. It seems to be running through a number of their products over recent times.

 

[Vladimir]

Ah, is that why Audio Research, McIntosh to name two still predominantly use Frame transformers ...

regards

Toroidal transformers are more efficient and even for the same rating as a laminated one, they will chuck out more current. For valve amps a laminated transformer is the way to go because tubes love voltage and hate current, the oposite case than MOSFET solid states.

 

[chebby]

All well and good the guy from Rega being so helpful on a hi-fi forum, but clearly there's a genetic problem:

That's a bit below the belt. (Although 'the guy from Rega' being called Paul Darwin lends a certain irony to your unconscious stab at wit!)

Just speaking the truth. How many posts has Mr. Darwin made? If he or any other Rega employees or management contributed on a regular basis that would be acceptable. But they haven't until the muck hit the fan recently.

Still no reason to accuse Mr Darwn of having a "genetic problem".

Chebby I'm not accusing Mr. Darwin of having a personal issue, I'm talking about the "genetic problem" of their equipment. It seems to be running through a number of their products over recent times.

Were you groping around for the word 'generic' then?

It doesn't matter anyway. You gave me a laugh first thing this morning for which i'm grateful.

 

[Richard Allen]

Ah, is that why Audio Research, McIntosh to name two still predominantly use Frame transformers ...

regards

Toroidal transformers are more efficient and even for the same rating as a laminated one, they will chuck out more current.

What a load of rubbish!!. True, toroids are more efficient but to say that they 'chuck out' more current than a laminate for a given Va rating is just plain wrong. A 500Va transformer is what it is whether laminate or toroid. Laws of physics n all that. :wall:

 

[plastic penguin]

All well and good the guy from Rega being so helpful on a hi-fi forum, but clearly there's a genetic problem:

That's a bit below the belt. (Although 'the guy from Rega' being called Paul Darwin lends a certain irony to your unconscious stab at wit!)

Just speaking the truth. How many posts has Mr. Darwin made? If he or any other Rega employees or management contributed on a regular basis that would be acceptable. But they haven't until the muck hit the fan recently.

Still no reason to accuse Mr Darwn of having a "genetic problem".

Chebby I'm not accusing Mr. Darwin of having a personal issue, I'm talking about the "genetic problem" of their equipment. It seems to be running through a number of their products over recent times.

Were you groping around for the word 'generic' then?

It doesn't matter anyway. You gave me a laugh first thing this morning for which i'm grateful.

Glad I gave a you a chuckle.

No, I did mean genetic or DNA of their recent products.

I'm not sure how Mr. Darwin "can work" with Steve. By my reading the noise is caused by isolation (or lack of) of the gizzards, so other than adding a mains conditioner I can't see a quick fix on this one.