Rega Elicit R - Happy

[CJSF]

Been to listen to a Sugden A21 today - well somewhat dissapointed with presentation - I don't know if its my thing or not, found it a little duller than the Elicit R, Speakers were PMC GB1. I guess you could listen to it for hours and hours, think I would get bored though.

A small point, one of the good things about full set valve amps, 'change the valves to give you the sound you like' . . . something I am in the process of doing at the moment, getting a lot out of the 'speakers' by matching the valves to their strong points. I'm finding the bias setting can also change the presentation (bias setting kept with in the limits of the manufacturers recommendations). On my ST40, the less the bias, the warmer/smoother the sound becomes, but still retaining the drive and dynamics or feeling, sensitivity on the recording that the artist intended? 'Adding what is not there' seems to defeat the object at this level . . . :?

CJSF

Mmmh, double edged sword that one. Not unlike switchable digital filters on DAC's, valve rolling, bias tweaking etc. can lead to endless tweaking ending in more confusion than musical satisfaction.

Kinda better to accept that all recordings/media are not equal and just enjoy them for what they are ...

regards

As lovely as the valves are, I tend to agree.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

As I said, I agee, however knowing when to stop is the trick, and tis true, you need to be a bit of a fiddling, hands on type with some time on your hands may be? I dont live in a busy world . . . :?

I went through a patch recently, sell the lot, stick with CD and Spotify, one box amp, Sugden, Exposure and Croft were high on the list . . . Then sens took over . . . some of my old depression problems raising their ugly heads again :wall:

CJSF

 

[plastic penguin]

@CJ:

"A small point, one of the good things about full set valve amps, 'change the valves to give you the sound you like' ".

How much does a good valve amp cost? how much does a full valve change cost? What after all that, he still isn't keen on the presentation?

Contrary to what you think, I find your "tweaking" threads interesting. All I've ever said such fettling isn't for me.

 

[plastic penguin]

In no way was the Sugden inferior - just was a little laid back for my taste.

Don't think anyone has said the Sugden is inferior, only they are so different.

When Cno said "On balance, it was a good call" (sorry Cno, I know what you're saying) makes me look as if I've just landed from Planet Zog. IMO, going from a Rega or Leema to a Sugden is 'poke in the eye' obvious.

 

[Macspur]

Been to listen to a Sugden A21 today - well somewhat dissapointed with presentation - I don't know if its my thing or not, found it a little duller than the Elicit R, Speakers were PMC GB1. I guess you could listen to it for hours and hours, think I would get bored though.

A small point, one of the good things about full set valve amps, 'change the valves to give you the sound you like' . . . something I am in the process of doing at the moment, getting a lot out of the 'speakers' by matching the valves to their strong points. I'm finding the bias setting can also change the presentation (bias setting kept with in the limits of the manufacturers recommendations). On my ST40, the less the bias, the warmer/smoother the sound becomes, but still retaining the drive and dynamics or feeling, sensitivity on the recording that the artist intended? 'Adding what is not there' seems to defeat the object at this level . . . :?

CJSF

Mmmh, double edged sword that one. Not unlike switchable digital filters on DAC's, valve rolling, bias tweaking etc. can lead to endless tweaking ending in more confusion than musical satisfaction.

Kinda better to accept that all recordings/media are not equal and just enjoy them for what they are ...

regards

As lovely as the valves are, I tend to agree.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

As I said, I agee, however knowing when to stop is the trick, and tis true, you need to be a bit of a fiddling, hands on type with some time on your hands may be? I dont live in a busy world . . . :? I went through a patch recently, sell the lot, stick with CD and Spotify, one box amp, Sugden, Exposure and Croft were high on the list . . . Then sens took over . . . some of my old depression problems raising their ugly heads again :wall: CJSF

No criticism meant CJ, just speaking personally... I know what I'd be like with valves, I'm a born fiddler!

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[Sospri]

Thanks Richard, You are only telling me what I already know myself - maybe a lot of pressure off other forum members to bin the Rega. As planned I am taking my Elicit back in the morning, if I can get a replacement without any buzzing then I will be sticking with the Elciit. I ws going to get a Destiny 2 on home demo but as you rightly say I have already found an amp that I like. Hopefuly the replacement will put this post to bed tomorrow.

Why would you take any notice what other members post on this thread, its your money your ears that will make your final decision. I can never understand why anyone would be swayed by suggestions that people make on here which is mainly their own kit............

 

[alchemist 1]

It's Saturday morning.........:shhh: Can't hear any humm !

 

[CnoEvil]

In no way was the Sugden inferior - just was a little laid back for my taste.

Don't think anyone has said the Sugden is inferior, only they are so different.

When Cno said "On balance, it was a good call" (sorry Cno, I know what you're saying) makes me look as if I've just landed from Planet Zog. IMO, going from a Rega or Leema to a Sugden is 'poke in the eye' obvious.

In Hifi, nothing can be taken as a certainty....sometimes when something very different is tried, it can be a revelation. It's also possible that if a Sugden remained in the system for a couple of weeks, the Rega would then sound rather forward and uncouth.

 

[Sospri]

Or maybe not.............

 

[Macspur]

But probably...

 

[CJSF]

@CJ:

"A small point, one of the good things about full set valve amps, 'change the valves to give you the sound you like' ".

How much does a good valve amp cost? how much does a full valve change cost? What after all that, he still isn't keen on the presentation?

Contrary to what you think, I find your "tweaking" threads interesting. All I've ever said such fettling isn't for me.

I new this one would raise its head. I did make the point, to own a full set valve amp and get the best from it, you need to be a 'hands on type', even I get a bit fed-up with myself and fiddling sometimes? OK that said, looking at the amount of time and thought that is put into 'cable' never mind the cost!! Rolling a valve or three is kids stuff, experience has shown me expensive is not the rout to good sound quality . . . neither in cable or valves. My system is wired with very modestly priced cable, the valves I have in my amp after much swapping (rolling) are all under £24 each.

I've tried the £100 each jobbies and was not impressed, the words 'hype and gullible' comes to mind? My valves are as follows; 4 output valves £23 a go, 2 phase spliters at £3 each, a single first stage valve £2 and a rectifier valve £17, the phase spliters and first stage valves cost more to ship from Russia than their purchase price. Even my amplifier is not expensive, being compatible price wise with the amp this thread deals with, its engineering IMHO is superior, great value for money and no hum.

True, valve amps can be a bit agricultural to look at, but they have a charm of their own that few can resits an acknowledgment. So, valve amps are not plug and play, they can be, but to get the best bang for your buck, you have to give them some TLC. TLC is rewarded with some superb SQ.

There is an option . . . if you want Pug and Play and a valve sound, the Croft integrated hybrid at £800 or £1000 with a valve phono stage is superb value, it will hold its own in some very rarefied company, 'all this and heaven to'?

CJSF

 

[CnoEvil]

Or maybe not.............

Exactly my point.

 

[CJSF]

No criticism meant CJ, just speaking personally... I know what I'd be like with valves, I'm a born fiddler!

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

Non taken Mac, I just love my valves, been a valve man since the early 80's . . . I'm not going to change am I? I do get a bit fedup with myself sometimes, then I listen to some music . . .

CJSF

 

[stevebrock]

The suspense is over!

In my haste of packing my 2nd Elciit into the box, I had the empty box on a small table next to my left hand speaker - i knocked the box off and the corner went straight through the mid driver.

3rd Elicit R, set up - its quiet in here now - no pun inended re: damged speaker.

Left my speaker at Cymbiosis they will put a new driver in for me.

I will keep the 3rd Elicit on for the weekend and monitor it.

How unlucky am I - root cause n all that!

Root casue of damaged speaker being the first faulty Elcit!

 

[CnoEvil]

But probably...

IME. Dramatic, exciting sounding systems have a more immediate impact and ability to impress, but "sometimes" can become waring during long, or loud listening sessions.

Smoother, organic, euphonious systems have strengths that often take a little longer to appreciate......but it's never a given.

This is no way inferring that Rega is overly forward, but it's all relative.....and as always, the speaker match and personal preference is crucial.

 

[CnoEvil]

The suspense is over!

In my haste of packing my 2nd Elciit into the box, I had the empty box on a small table next to my left hand speaker - i knocked the box off and the corner went straight through the mid driver.

3rd Elicit R, set up - its quiet in here now - no pun inended re: damged speaker.

Left my speaker at Cymbiosis they will put a new driver in for me.

I will keep the 3rd Elicit on for the weekend and monitor it.

How unlucky am I - root cause n all that!

Root casue of damaged speaker being the first faulty Elcit!

If you're not a neurotic mess at the end of all this (and in need of therapy), I'll be amazed. :wall:

I hope contentment breaks out shortly.

 

[busb]

Been to listen to a Sugden A21 today - well somewhat dissapointed with presentation - I don't know if its my thing or not, found it a little duller than the Elicit R, Speakers were PMC GB1. I guess you could listen to it for hours and hours, think I would get bored though.

A small point, one of the good things about full set valve amps, 'change the valves to give you the sound you like' . . . something I am in the process of doing at the moment, getting a lot out of the 'speakers' by matching the valves to their strong points. I'm finding the bias setting can also change the presentation (bias setting kept with in the limits of the manufacturers recommendations). On my ST40, the less the bias, the warmer/smoother the sound becomes, but still retaining the drive and dynamics or feeling, sensitivity on the recording that the artist intended? 'Adding what is not there' seems to defeat the object at this level . . . :?

CJSF

Mmmh, double edged sword that one. Not unlike switchable digital filters on DAC's, valve rolling, bias tweaking etc. can lead to endless tweaking ending in more confusion than musical satisfaction.

Kinda better to accept that all recordings/media are not equal and just enjoy them for what they are ...

regards

Spot on in my opinion! Although my M-DAC has several filter options, I stick to just one - otherwise I'll start worrying if certain recordings suit another setting rather than enjoying music. It's a bit like computing, I've stopped fiddling & just use the damn thing. Life's too short for endless tweaking, chopping & changing stuff.

 

[drummerman]

The suspense is over!

In my haste of packing my 2nd Elciit into the box, I had the empty box on a small table next to my left hand speaker - i knocked the box off and the corner went straight through the mid driver.

3rd Elicit R, set up - its quiet in here now - no pun inended re: damged speaker.

Left my speaker at Cymbiosis they will put a new driver in for me.

I will keep the 3rd Elicit on for the weekend and monitor it.

How unlucky am I - root cause n all that!

Root casue of damaged speaker being the first faulty Elcit!

Very sorry to hear that Steve.

Time to perhaps relax and enjoy the very nice system you have once you get the speaker back.

regards

 

[BigH]

The suspense is over!

In my haste of packing my 2nd Elciit into the box, I had the empty box on a small table next to my left hand speaker - i knocked the box off and the corner went straight through the mid driver.

3rd Elicit R, set up - its quiet in here now - no pun inended re: damged speaker.

Left my speaker at Cymbiosis they will put a new driver in for me.

I will keep the 3rd Elicit on for the weekend and monitor it.

How unlucky am I - root cause n all that!

Root casue of damaged speaker being the first faulty Elcit!

Sounds like consqential loss maybe you should claim off Rega , only joking we not in the USA. At least Rega drivers are cheap.

 

[BigH]

The suspense is over!

In my haste of packing my 2nd Elciit into the box, I had the empty box on a small table next to my left hand speaker - i knocked the box off and the corner went straight through the mid driver.

3rd Elicit R, set up - its quiet in here now - no pun inended re: damged speaker.

Left my speaker at Cymbiosis they will put a new driver in for me.

I will keep the 3rd Elicit on for the weekend and monitor it.

How unlucky am I - root cause n all that!

Root casue of damaged speaker being the first faulty Elcit!

Sounds like consqential loss maybe you should claim off Rega , only joking we not in the USA. At least Rega drivers are cheap.

 

[CJSF]

Been to listen to a Sugden A21 today - well somewhat dissapointed with presentation - I don't know if its my thing or not, found it a little duller than the Elicit R, Speakers were PMC GB1. I guess you could listen to it for hours and hours, think I would get bored though.

A small point, one of the good things about full set valve amps, 'change the valves to give you the sound you like' . . . something I am in the process of doing at the moment, getting a lot out of the 'speakers' by matching the valves to their strong points. I'm finding the bias setting can also change the presentation (bias setting kept with in the limits of the manufacturers recommendations). On my ST40, the less the bias, the warmer/smoother the sound becomes, but still retaining the drive and dynamics or feeling, sensitivity on the recording that the artist intended? 'Adding what is not there' seems to defeat the object at this level . . . :?

CJSF

Mmmh, double edged sword that one. Not unlike switchable digital filters on DAC's, valve rolling, bias tweaking etc. can lead to endless tweaking ending in more confusion than musical satisfaction.

Kinda better to accept that all recordings/media are not equal and just enjoy them for what they are ...

regards

Spot on in my opinion! Although my M-DAC has several filter options, I stick to just one - otherwise I'll start worrying if certain recordings suit another setting rather than enjoying music. It's a bit like computing, I've stopped fiddling & just use the damn thing. Life's too short for endless tweaking, chopping & changing stuff.

Mmm . . . I dont disagree, however when I look at what I have invested in hifi, I want the best value out of it, 110% . . . are you satisfied with second best?

So, being the hands on type, its no hassle for me, I like to know how things works, in the case of valve rolling, its an intangible, but a satisfaction to sit back and enjoy the music, just like I'm doing at this very moment as I type . . . close field listening, source; Spotify, artist; Stefan Grossman 'Shining Shadows',

I keep saying it, the trick is knowing when to stop and enjoy the music, its the reward for the frustrations of tweaking

CJSF

 

[Jim-W]

Ever thought about teaming up with BBB and doing a stand at a hifi equipment demonstration gig steve? Now that would be explosive. Ho hum.

Glad yout trials and tribulations are almost at an end; I think I'd have been sectioned by now. Hope the amp has a quiet weekend.

 

[chebby]

The suspense is over!

In my haste of packing my 2nd Elciit into the box, I had the empty box on a small table next to my left hand speaker - i knocked the box off and the corner went straight through the mid driver.

3rd Elicit R, set up - its quiet in here now - no pun inended re: damged speaker.

Left my speaker at Cymbiosis they will put a new driver in for me.

I will keep the 3rd Elicit on for the weekend and monitor it.

How unlucky am I - root cause n all that!

Root casue of damaged speaker being the first faulty Elcit!

It seems the hi-fi gods really don't want you to have this amp! Beware of meteorites hitting your speaker when it's delivered back from repair.

 

[plastic penguin]

The suspense is over!

In my haste of packing my 2nd Elciit into the box, I had the empty box on a small table next to my left hand speaker - i knocked the box off and the corner went straight through the mid driver.

3rd Elicit R, set up - its quiet in here now - no pun inended re: damged speaker.

Left my speaker at Cymbiosis they will put a new driver in for me.

I will keep the 3rd Elicit on for the weekend and monitor it.

How unlucky am I - root cause n all that!

Root casue of damaged speaker being the first faulty Elcit!

Holy Moses! you haven't kicked a black cat have you? Can't believe how unlucky you are.

Look on the positive side. It can only get better.

 

[busb]

Been to listen to a Sugden A21 today - well somewhat dissapointed with presentation - I don't know if its my thing or not, found it a little duller than the Elicit R, Speakers were PMC GB1. I guess you could listen to it for hours and hours, think I would get bored though.

A small point, one of the good things about full set valve amps, 'change the valves to give you the sound you like' . . . something I am in the process of doing at the moment, getting a lot out of the 'speakers' by matching the valves to their strong points. I'm finding the bias setting can also change the presentation (bias setting kept with in the limits of the manufacturers recommendations). On my ST40, the less the bias, the warmer/smoother the sound becomes, but still retaining the drive and dynamics or feeling, sensitivity on the recording that the artist intended? 'Adding what is not there' seems to defeat the object at this level . . . :?

CJSF

Mmmh, double edged sword that one. Not unlike switchable digital filters on DAC's, valve rolling, bias tweaking etc. can lead to endless tweaking ending in more confusion than musical satisfaction.

Kinda better to accept that all recordings/media are not equal and just enjoy them for what they are ...

regards

Spot on in my opinion! Although my M-DAC has several filter options, I stick to just one - otherwise I'll start worrying if certain recordings suit another setting rather than enjoying music. It's a bit like computing, I've stopped fiddling & just use the damn thing. Life's too short for endless tweaking, chopping & changing stuff.

Mmm . . . I dont disagree, however when I look at what I have invested in hifi, I want the best value out of it, 110% . . . are you satisfied with second best?

So, being the hands on type, its no hassle for me, I like to know how things works, in the case of valve rolling, its an intangible, but a satisfaction to sit back and enjoy the music, just like I'm doing at this very moment as I type . . . close field listening, source; Spotify, artist; Stefan Grossman 'Shining Shadows',

I keep saying it, the trick is knowing when to stop and enjoy the music, its the reward for the frustrations of tweaking

CJSF

Part of my job entails repairing electronics. Most of the time it's straightforward enough but occasionally the fault is stubborn: do I spend another 30' investigating down to component level or cut my losses & fit a new assembly? Professional pride tells me to spend more time but common sense tells me to ignore my ego & fit a new module/PCB.

I also want to get the best return on investment with my system but good music does not require endless fettling - my Hi Fi is just the means. I do experiment with stuff like speaker & listening position tweaking but I stop & leave well alone for months on end.

Back in the 70s, a friend would have something new (to him, often 2nd hand) every time I visited, be it a NyTech receiver, new speakers or stands or whatever. This was a defining moment for me when I realised that for some, the means was more important than the end. Great music sounds great & hence enjoyable out of a radio, listening on my system only ices that cake, it does not transform the music I don't like into something I do! We collectively need to realise that HiFi can develope into an OCDlike persuit. Knowing when to stop is not always clear cut.

Even with a stable system & demeanor, stripping down, vacuuming then checking wiring is worthwhile once a year.

 

[stevebrock]

I did think of BBB when I was staring at offending hole - they really are made of paper aren't they - monitor audio driver cones are a composite I knew PP was right I should of stuck with MA.

In the shop I caught my jacket sleeve on the big chunky staple used to secure the speaker box - so I really must of upset somebody!

I nearly asked to take some Kudos home but was restrained by the missus who was eyeing up the bag store next door! I must say I'm reasonably in a good mood - it's only a driver!