Monitor audio rx6 vs AVI ADM 9.1 vs Dynaudio X16

[AL13N]

Passive systems can be just as revealing as actives

Passive designs can certainly be accurate and "revealing of detail". PMC’s powered (not active) speakers have received glowing reviews in SOS. They also reviewed the AVI Neutron Five 2.1 system. The latter was recommended for mixing and monitoring with consistent results.

They definitely wouldn’t recommend these passive designs for critical tasks if they lacked accuracy.

Of course, both PMC and AVI (and ATC)* produce active designs higher up their product range. These are more expensive and cited as improved loudspeaker designs.

*All three are commended by SOS for their tonal neutrality and accuracy.

Remember also that upgrading an active system - and the AVIs are price compromised as much as any other system - works out far more expensive than it does for passive systems, as essentially you have to replace the lot.

To upgrade the AVI ADM9.1 to ADM9T spec requires removing the amp plate from the left speaker and sending it to AVI for modification. Not what I’d call having “to replace the lot”.

 

[BenLaw]

BenLaw, I read the same article, but it could be my poor German let me down. I thought the first series of tests, which used hyper-expensive amplification with the passives, showed the passives winning, it wasn't until they brought in cheaper amps to make the pricing more equal that the actives were judged better. Perhaps you could correct me - as I said, there's a distinct possibility I misunderstood, but would like to know.

That said, prices of both would buy you a couple of decent motors...

Hi Grottyash. The article is from stereoplay.de (I was sent a link to a pdf, which I can't put here, and am struggling to find it on their website, although the review of the 100s is easy to find). Years since I did German, and nothing hifi related (!), so I'm just going off the google translation. The end of the review talks about the Ayre MX-R and also 'price-appropriate' Accurate Linn 2200 or Vincent SP 995. The reviewer marginally prefers the passive driven by the Ayre (giving an overall score of 82/100 v 81/100, 'because I have access to the world's best amplifier'). When using the lesser amplification, something like 'now ATC immediately brought the world back into balance' is said, and various ways in which the active ATCs are better are listed.

There are also a series of measurements, which I assume are based on the Ayre amplification, although it isn't actually clear. They're very similar, with the actives having slightly less distortion.

 

[Anonymous]

To upgrade the AVI ADM9.1 to ADM9T spec requires removing the amp plate from the left speaker and sending it to AVI for modification. Not what I’d call having “to replace the lot”.

And you'd be wrong. Supposing you want to upgrade to a different speaker. You can't, unless you buy another active, and that involves replacing the lot.

There is more to life than AVI, you know

 

[Anonymous]

BenLaw, I read the same article, but it could be my poor German let me down. I thought the first series of tests, which used hyper-expensive amplification with the passives, showed the passives winning, it wasn't until they brought in cheaper amps to make the pricing more equal that the actives were judged better. Perhaps you could correct me - as I said, there's a distinct possibility I misunderstood, but would like to know.

That said, prices of both would buy you a couple of decent motors...

Hi Grottyash. The article is from stereoplay.de (I was sent a link to a pdf, which I can't put here, and am struggling to find it on their website, although the review of the 100s is easy to find). Years since I did German, and nothing hifi related (!), so I'm just going off the google translation. The end of the review talks about the Ayre MX-R and also 'price-appropriate' Accurate Linn 2200 or Vincent SP 995. The reviewer marginally prefers the passive driven by the Ayre (giving an overall score of 82/100 v 81/100, 'because I have access to the world's best amplifier'). When using the lesser amplification, something like 'now ATC immediately brought the world back into balance' is said, and various ways in which the active ATCs are better are listed.

There are also a series of measurements, which I assume are based on the Ayre amplification, although it isn't actually clear. They're very similar, with the actives having slightly less distortion.

Thanks for that, BenLaw. Think I got the vague idea.

 

[AL13N]

And you'd be wrong. Supposing you want to upgrade to a different speaker. You can't, unless you buy another active, and that involves replacing the lot.

Not quite. The AVI mod would be akin to upgrading the CDP/DAC or Pre-amp in a passive system.

You're right about the speakers (and amplifiers). In that case you would have to replace the lot.

However, have there not been threads where individuals have replaced passive speakers only to change their amplifier soon after due to the old one not gelling properly with their new purchase?

 

[AL13N]

There is more to life than AVI, you know

I'm quite aware of that. PMC and ATC being two other companies I mentioned in the very post you quoted.

Let's not go off topic. The discussion was about passive vs active design. As I mentioned above I believe both can be implemented to achieve excellent results.

IMO, the question of which path to further pursue beyond a particular price point is more pertinent. For example, some Hi-Fi components are so expensive as to eclipse the price of a high end Pro-Audio active setup. At this level of expenditure, is passive still the way to go?

 

[CnoEvil]

As in all things hifi (re active vs passive), there isn't a right answer, only a right answer for the individual....but don't let me stop a good arguement. 😉

Those with actives will defend them, and vica versa with passive. The only time I've heard Linn sounding well was through their £30k Klimax actives.

I personally would never go active as it rules out Tubes or SS Full Class A. My 35w amp weighs in at over 28kg and runs hot.....can't see how it could be incorporated into a speaker.

Sorry can't help with the main question, other than to say I would try to go for what seems to be the preferred choice (Arcam + RX6), and try to manage any bass issues.

Cno

 

[AL13N]

I personally would never go active as it rules out Tubes or SS Full Class A.

... no it doesn't.

You're referring to an all-in-one active design. You can have an active setup using two or four Tube or Class A power amps and a pair of speakers without crossover circuitry (terminals connected directly to the drivers) like those offered by XTZ for example.

(please don't hold me responsible for any temptation or expenditure as a result of the above comment

).

 

[Anonymous]

It's not which is best! But which is best for the individual! I personally love the sound of my Adms. I added the sub because I could as I came into a small amount of money and spent it on that rather than on other more mundane things. Having said that it really adds an emence amount! There are always choices and often compromises need to be made either for budget or room acoustics/ size so just enjoy whatever you buy.
If anyone wants to demo mine they are always welcome as long as we can exchange emails to arrange it.
Nick

 

[CnoEvil]

I personally would never go active as it rules out Tubes or SS Full Class A.

... no it doesn't.

You're referring to an all-in-one active design. You can have an active setup using two or four Tube or Class A power amps and a pair of speakers without crossover circuitry (terminals connected directly to the drivers) like those offered by XTZ for example.

(please don't hold me responsible for any temptation or expenditure as a result of the above comment

).

Yes I was thinking of an all in one design, and it's good to know there is an alternative.

....and yes...I will hold you totaly responsible if temptation raises it's ugly head. :| ....where the O/H is concerned, a scapegoat is essential....the last sub I bought left me sleeping rough for a week, and required serious bribery to get back into the good books again 🙁

Regards

Cno

 

[AL13N]

....the last sub I bought left me sleeping rough for a week, and required serious bribery to get back into the good books again 🙁

Plan your purchase during the warm summer months and factor in the cost of an adequate bribe into your overall budget and you should be fine...

 

[Anonymous]

i think nobody can give the right answer, today I bought something nice, the Grado Sr80i I demoed it against the 60i + some Sennheisers + PV1 B&W.

The B&W was very boomy, Sennheiser bit too dark, I liked Sr60i but the 80i did it for me, great full sounding can. This is the sound I am after for when buying a new speaker set up.

 

[AL13N]

Try auditioning the Monitor Audio and Dynaudio speakers again using a more powerful amp, maybe even a pre/power combo. Then listen to the AVI speakers again with their matching subwoofer.

This may help towards the two problems you seem to be experiencing - too much (or uncontrolled) bass and too little bass. Then choose the one that sounds best with your music.

As for headphones, you can easily take them with you along with a portable music device loaded with the same music you use for auditioning. This way you can compare the sound of the headphones with the speakers directly.

You have to remember that with headphones room acoustics is a non-issue. Whereas with speakers it can greatly affect the sound. There's also no crossover, active or passive, to deal with.

Good Luck

 

[Anonymous]

You are right about that Alien.

Thanks for the tip I will take my Grado's with me when demoing for new speakers.

I also demo some 2000 pounds Stax headphone system but I found them too detailed and prefered the Grado's.

It also depends on what music you are listening, I did demo Massive Attack - teardrop , Pixies- debaser, Pink Floyd - Money and 16 Horsepower - clogger.

These are all populair music and suited the Grado's more.

 

[Anonymous]

GeorgeK if you can get to Bedford you can try mine with and without the Sub, I use Grado Sr 60's
Nick

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Nick

want do you mean, iam not quit following what to try?

I see you mean the AVI ADM + sub, I live i Rotterdam is that close?

cheers

GK

 

[Anonymous]

No sorry not close!
Nick

 

[Anonymous]

I know, well I can get the ferry to Newcastle and then drive.

Bradford is near Leeds right? LUFC was a great football club in the past, Bowyer, Ferdinand, Smith,Kewell, Keane, Viduka etc. well maybe you don;t even like football so what I am talking about

You are a big AVI fan right? I already own the Neutron 2.1 in my office, but I think they are a bit too smal for my 4*6 living room. That's why Iam thinking of the AVI ADM + sub.

 

[BenLaw]

Bradford is near Leeds (and yes they did have a good team and now not so good

) but Nick is from Bedford not Bradford - you're talking a 4 hour drive instead of a 1.5-2 hour one from Newcastle

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

I personally would never go active as it rules out Tubes or SS Full Class A.

... no it doesn't.

You're referring to an all-in-one active design. You can have an active setup using two or four Tube or Class A power amps and a pair of speakers without crossover circuitry (terminals connected directly to the drivers) like those offered by XTZ for example.

(please don't hold me responsible for any temptation or expenditure as a result of the above comment

).

he he! 🙂

every supporter of active speakers here says one of the main advantages of having such is having less boxes. well, let's see what we'll need with your XTZs:

source -> preamp -> active crossover -> 6 monoblocks or 3 stereo amps (as the speakers are 3-way. it would be 4 and 2 respectively if we deal with 2-way speakers) -> speakers (no passive crossover).

compared to:

source -> decent integrated amp -> speakers (with passive crossover unles of course they are a full range model, for instance electrostats).

but then again those XTZs are not active speakers. they can be implemented in active system. BTW, I guess few people realise they can easily get active system without getting active speakers. you need to get yourself active crossover and get rid of passive crossover form speakers and get appropriate number of power amps. that's what active speakers essencially are. but I guess it's just too much hassle...

and one more think. there's no such think as passive crossover distortion. there is crossover distortion but it relates to class B or AB amps and not speaker crossovers.

 

[Craig M.]

he he! 🙂

every supporter of active speakers here says one of the main advantages of having such is having less boxes.

i don't. i think the only real advantage is the sound.

and one more think. there's no such think as passive crossover distortion. there is crossover distortion but it relates to class B or AB amps and not speaker crossovers.

there is such a thing as speaker crossover distortion. google 'martin grindrod crossover distortion' also http://www.bobsamerica.com/bozak-xoveranalysis.html

 

[Craig M.]

hi craig,how does your new opals compare to the atc sia150,scm19's combo? how much do they retail for?

the opals are around £2600, there is a good review online from sound on sound. compared to my previous kit the opals have deeper, more accurate bass. it's ridiculously easy to hear changes in bass notes and bass level, and also hear which is the kick drum and which is the bass. the mid is clean, clear and natural and as real as i've heard. treble seems very realistic to me. the imaging is great, with unbelievable depth. as much as i loved the atcs, i think these are better in every way. the other bonus is being able to tune them to your room and personal taste, i measured my room the other night using the eq kit that comes with the speakers and discovered a 12db hump at around 47hz! it's not there anymore.

they will go louder without clipping than i will ever need and also sound great at low volumes. am i right in thinking you are in sheffield? don't know what you have there, but production room in leeds might have some you could demo.

 

[Frank Harvey]

And of course David is frequently saying how sountracks are mastered on matching sub/sat systems, I'm aware of several people using 3 matching active speakers as fronts and centre.

Exactly ben. For AV I'd say this really is the best option, if it can be accommodated. One of our customers is using three active SCM50's in his system, which produces a far more homogenous soundstage than using a supposedly 'matching' centre that's been manufactured to fit in a rack or be pleasing to the eye.

 

[AEJim]

We were just having a discussion about active speakers in the office. We're bemused why more manufacturers aren't offering them as an option - and I mean living-room friendly designs (like the AVIs), rather than more tweaky, pro-audio models.

We're trying to put together a test, and are struggling to find enough (relatively) mainstream options to add! (Eg widely available to demo/buy).

As a manufacturer we'd love to make more active speakers - it takes some of the variables of system matching out of the chain as well as the design being superior (if done correctly) to the conventional passive crossover/amplification route. In the current climate of growing usage of MP3 player sources it makes more sense than ever.

The problem is market acceptance (Worldwide, not just UK), it seems many members of the general public simply don't "get it". This isn't a criticism but more a case of active speakers being very new to people used to having a traditional stacking Hi-Fi system.

We had planned an active version of the new Compact 1 model (due in June) and in testing it sounds better than the passive version on the end of our Naim Supernait amplifier! The cost would rise from around £150 for the passive to nearer £400-500 for the active pair, while being a considerable saving over using even a very high quality amplifier it seems a large psychological jump.

What has put the project on hold for us, bearing in mind considerable developement time and cost is involved, is that in talking to various dealers who sell other active models it seems they don't really sell in any quantity. This could be down to the dealers not pushing and educating customers, that those models simply aren't that great, too expensive or indeed something else altogether. Either way that feedback mixed with the need to source and test many new components that we don't produce ourselves leaves a fair amount of risk involved.

It's something I'd certainly like to do but we'll need more demand and market maturity in that area before we can really go full-steam ahead. We do have the active Pro products because they are the norm in that market, the domestic Hi-Fi market has always been a little slower to embrace new things though... Not that active speakers are particularly new! This of course means some companies need to lead the way but we already tried that with Bluetooth speakers and WiFi Internet Radios, while they sold well enough they never set the world alight and we don't have the marketing budgets of a Bose or Sony to really do that!

It's a shame because I think the active Compact 1 prototypes we have are pretty special little speakers, it's a little bit of a chicken/egg situation I guess - manufacturers need press and dealers help to promote these kinds of technologies but you guys also need us to be making them to do so!

 

[Anonymous]

Jim you make a good point re actives not selling so well, the Market
maybe not ready yet. But as you say mp3's, and Apple in particular with the Airport Exppress/ Apple tv and AirTunes for streaming from iPods is both simple and brilliant. I bet your little speakers sound rather special, I'm sure that they would sell but as you say it's the number of sales that could be a problem. Why not let What hifi sample them as a temptations budget beater!
Avi say they are selling plenty of Adms.
Nick