Getting a Hi-Fi system is a lot simpler than most people think without all the hype

[Snooker]

First of all you are never going to get the perfect system it does not exist, and even if you could, different music tracks are recorded differently so your system would no longer sound perfect

At the end of the day a modest well matched decent system is all you need, and when playing very good recordings they will sound above excellent with only a slight difference in sound quality for any given price point above “a modest well matched decent system” like my Denon Ceol N9 With Kef Q150 speakers

If you are prepared to except that your system is not perfect but more than good enough then you will be happy with the system you have that is the trick, and then you can forget about it and just enjoy the music

Its mainly just about having a modest well matched decent system with “really good recorded tracks”

Just my opinion what’s your view ?

 

[Gray]

First of all you are never going to get the perfect system it does not exist, and even if you could, different music tracks are recorded differently so your system would no longer sound perfect

At the end of the day a modest well matched decent system is all you need, and when playing very good recordings they will sound above excellent with only a slight difference in sound quality for any given price point above “a modest well matched decent system” like my Denon Ceol N9 With Kef Q150 speakers

If you are prepared to except that your system is not perfect but more than good enough then you will be happy with the system you have that is the trick, and then you can forget about it and just enjoy the music

Its mainly just about having a modest well matched decent system with “really good recorded tracks”

Just my opinion what’s your view ?

Excellent advice 👍
Can't add anything more.

 

[Al ears]

Many will accept their system is not perfect which is why the strive to make it better, for this dealers are grateful.

 

[Gray]

Many will accept their system is not perfect which is why the strive to make it better, for this dealers are grateful.

The point he's making Al, is that they need to accept that no system is perfect....to find contentment.

 

[Al ears]

The point he's making Al, is that they need to accept that no system is perfect....to find contentment.

And that is not likely to ever happen.

 

[Gray]

And that is not likely to ever happen.

For most of us here.....no, it probably won't.

 

[plastic penguin]

The point he's making Al, is that they need to accept that no system is perfect....to find contentment.

What have I said for years now?

It's all about finding the "ideal compromise".

 

[jjbomber]

First of all you are never going to get the perfect system it does not exist, and even if you could, different music tracks are recorded differently so your system would no longer sound perfect

At the end of the day a modest well matched decent system is all you need, and when playing very good recordings they will sound above excellent with only a slight difference in sound quality for any given price point above “a modest well matched decent system” like my Denon Ceol N9 With Kef Q150 speakers

If you are prepared to except that your system is not perfect but more than good enough then you will be happy with the system you have that is the trick, and then you can forget about it and just enjoy the music

Just my opinion what’s your view ?

Just accept that a system is perfect for you, given your preferences, your budget, your room, etc. What is perfect for you won't be perfect for anyone else. Just set your target of your perfect system, then start tapping your toes and nodding your head.

Keep doing this until upgrade-itis sets in! No known cure to date!

 

[Oxfordian]

Keep doing this until upgrade-itis sets in! No known cure to date!

Don't I know it!!

It maybe that because I can (or at least will be able to too in the not too distant future) afford to upgrade that I get the itch to upgrade. Its the same with my photography although I am getting better at ignoring the upgrade itch and have less need to scratch it.

 

[simontompkins]

Hi, I'm no sound expert but I think the point is well made and very much supported. I was given a very good book on Opera Houses around the World

The Most Beautiful Opera Houses in the World: Amazon.co.uk: Pecqueur, Antoine, Laubier, Guillaume de: 9781419709616: Books

Buy The Most Beautiful Opera Houses in the World 01 by Pecqueur, Antoine, Laubier, Guillaume de (ISBN: 9781419709616) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

What I found particularly interesting is how many are designed specifically for different sound fields. Some are principally used for Opera, some are used more for mainly orchestral work. The implication is that voices and a full orchestra have different sound fields and so an opera house can be designed to compliment one over the other or take into consideration that sometimes there are operatic performances and sometimes purely instrumental. As you write, there's no 'perfect' architecture because sound fields are different, as is our perception.
My brother had a nice line, he used to say that a lot of Rock Music was built on distortion so maybe getting a reissued, remastered album that 'cleaned it up' could actually take away from some of the enjoyment and feeling of the tracks.
On the other hand if I went for a system for Jazz and Classical I'd take in a few of my favourite tracks and see how each system processed the tracks by the expedient of listening to them in a store.

 

[12th Monkey]

I want to agree, but feel that the difference in sound quality by going beyond modest (which will mean different things to different people) is more significant than the OP suggests - in my experience at least.

 

[Witterings]

The timing of me seeing this post is very useful as I've been chasing the dragon of all round perfection for a while and maybe I've got as close as I can.
Summary of my current situation is I love my system with 93% of tracks (in fact blown away by it) but some very "deep" tracks can become a bit muddy ... although I may be able to help this with furnishings / placement / room correction.

I think it also depends how much the "bad" bits iritate you, I've had some bright speakers that with elevated recordings you just wanted to switch it off, it almost hurt.
In comparison, living with "a bit muddy" on some bass heavy recordings pales it into insignificance.

 

[plastic penguin]

The timing of me seeing this post is very useful as I've been chasing the dragon of all round perfection for a while and maybe I've got as close as I can.
Summary of my current situation is I love my system with 93% of tracks (in fact blown away by it) but some very "deep" tracks can become a bit muddy ... although I may be able to help this with furnishings / placement / room correction.

I think it also depends how much the "bad" bits iritate you, I've had some bright speakers that with elevated recordings you just wanted to switch it off, it almost hurt.
In comparison, living with "a bit muddy" on some bass heavy recordings pales it into insignificance.

Think the sound you hear is down to good or bad the recording is. Unfortunately, the better your system the more it reveals in the recording.

 

[matthewpianist]

Some interesting points made here.

I've been the epitome of the restless 'audiophile' (I dislike that word), to the point where it has sometimes been detrimental rather than happiness-inducing. Once you get dragged in it's very easy to start thinking 'Oh, that must be so much better than what I have', and to get pushed along by those thoughts. Whilst 'improvements' can be made to any system, there's a point at which the line between 'improvements' and mere 'changes' becomes very blurred.

I've gone as far as owning (for example) a Michell TecnoDec, Quad Artera Play/Stereo, Naim amplification, Rega Elex-R, KEF LS50, Spendor A1...

The systems I've had the most musical pleasure from have included:

• Pioneer PL12D * Sony CDP597 * Rotel RA920AX * B&W DM301
• Rotel RCD965BX * Pioneer A400 * Mission 751
• Project Debut * NAD C521BEE * Squeezebox Touch * NAD C325BEE * Q Acoustics 1030i
• Harman-Kardon HD970 * Rotel RA01 * Monitor Audio B2
• Rega RP3 * Denon DCD720AE * PMA720AE * KEF Q100
• Rega RP3 * Rega Apollo-R * Rega Brio-R * Dynaudio DM2/6
• Cambridge Audio 740C * 740A * Mordaunt-Short Mezzo 2
• Project The Classic * MoFi phono stage * Musical Fidelity M2scd * M2si * Dynaudio DM2/6

My current kit sits in the same ballpark as the above, being more or less entry-level, and it belongs firmly in that list. Essentially I've taken a very long and expensive route to being in the same place, and if I'm honest with myself I could still be happily enjoying the music with any one of the above systems. I would be better off financially and I would have spent more time purely enjoying the music rather than messing with the kit.

 

[twinkletoes]

I agree and disagree, because generally, you get what you pay for (I've been around the block enough to know this) and rather than buying once and doing it right, there is a major comprise made by the purchaser to hamstring (and you can't blame that on the gear) this then leads to the restless feeling leading to that need to upgrade. I see this all the time! Just this week in fact, 1900 quid speakers but want to cheap out on the amp.


BUT having said that people's minds sets of box swapping need to change, spending 50 or a hundred quid extra here and there on different brands is not going to yield any differences. And i see it here all the time

 

[Oxfordian]

Some interesting points made here.

I've been the epitome of the restless 'audiophile' (I dislike that word), to the point where it has sometimes been detrimental rather than happiness-inducing. Once you get dragged in it's very easy to start thinking 'Oh, that must be so much better than what I have', and to get pushed along by those thoughts. Whilst 'improvements' can be made to any system, there's a point at which the line between 'improvements' and mere 'changes' becomes very blurred.

I've gone as far as owning (for example) a Michell TecnoDec, Quad Artera Play/Stereo, Naim amplification, Rega Elex-R, KEF LS50, Spendor A1...

The systems I've had the most musical pleasure from have included:

• Pioneer PL12D * Sony CDP597 * Rotel RA920AX * B&W DM301
• Rotel RCD965BX * Pioneer A400 * Mission 751
• Project Debut * NAD C521BEE * Squeezebox Touch * NAD C325BEE * Q Acoustics 1030i
• Harman-Kardon HD970 * Rotel RA01 * Monitor Audio B2
• Rega RP3 * Denon DCD720AE * PMA720AE * KEF Q100
• Rega RP3 * Rega Apollo-R * Rega Brio-R * Dynaudio DM2/6
• Cambridge Audio 740C * 740A * Mordaunt-Short Aviano 2
• Project The Classic * MoFi phono stage * Musical Fidelity M2scd * M2si * Dynaudio DM2/6

My current kit sits in the same ballpark as the above, being more or less entry-level, and it belongs firmly in that list. Essentially I've taken a very long and expensive route to being in the same place, and if I'm honest with myself I could still be happily enjoying the music with any one of the above systems. I would be better off financially and I would have spent more time purely enjoying the music rather than messing with the kit.

I think that at this precise moment I am on the edge of falling into the upgrade rabbit hole which takes you to the downward spiral path of a seeker of constant improvement.

Why? Well I am reasonably convinced that I probably need a more powerful amp to get the best out of my speakers, but other than that change what else do I need as the sound I have at the moment is pretty good, I quite like it. But having heard other systems I believe that there is more to get out of the vinyl grooves than I am hearing at the moment. And this is the danger, the thought that there maybe more to hear, a better sound could be obtained if I bought................

So I am staring into the hole and wondering if I should jump in, if I do where will I go, what will I find and most worryingly what will be the financial damage.

 

[matthewpianist]

I think that at this precise moment I am on the edge of falling into the upgrade rabbit hole which takes you to the downward spiral path of a seeker of constant improvement.

Why? Well I am reasonably convinced that I probably need a more powerful amp to get the best out of my speakers, but other than that change what else do I need as the sound I have at the moment is pretty good, I quite like it. But having heard other systems I believe that there is more to get out of the vinyl grooves than I am hearing at the moment. And this is the danger, the thought that there maybe more to hear, a better sound could be obtained if I bought................

So I am staring into the hole and wondering if I should jump in, if I do where will I go, what will I find and most worryingly what will be the financial damage.

It's a real dilemma. If you have the spare money, the easy option is to go ahead with the excitement of making changes and (hopefully) seeing incremental 'improvements' in the way your system performs, but whether or not it's the right option is more difficult to judge.

You have a very capable and nicely balanced system, and the RP3 is a very good front end. What other systems have you heard dig more out of the grooves, and how did the volume levels compare to those you listen at in the comfort of your own home?

In the end, only you can make the decision as to whether or not it's worth jumping down the rabbit hole, but it's perhaps also worth remembering how expensive vinyl is these days and how much music you could buy and enjoy if you don't spend the money on kit...

 

[Oxfordian]

In the end, only you can make the decision as to whether or not it's worth jumping down the rabbit hole, but it's perhaps also worth remembering how expensive vinyl is these days and how much music you could buy and enjoy if you don't spend the money on kit...

Its this last comment that really hits home, the cost of Vinyl, a new amp will cost the best part of (if not over) £3k, that is a hell of a lot of money I could spend on Vinyl.

I am lucky enough to have a great HiFi dealer and next month they are lending me a Hegel H190 to audition at home, this should help me make a decision whether to jump into the rabbit hole or to turn and walk away.

 

[plastic penguin]

Reading the above comments, I must be the most contented person on this forum. Only generally change any of my stuff when a component conks out. Of course there has been a few exceptions but when I have done I've regretted it: Electrocompaniet CDP, Naim CD5i, Ortofon Red, Grado headphones....

 

[Oxfordian]

Reading the above comments, I must be the most contented person on this forum. Only generally change any of my stuff when a component conks out. Of course there has been a few exceptions but when I have done I've regretted it: Electrocompaniet CDP, Naim CD5i, Ortofon Red, Grado headphones....

I am happy with my system, I just have this belief that I could get more out of my vinyl, the Rega P3 is a damn good player as are the other components in my system, but am I getting the most out of everything that I have or can I give my ears a nicer experience.

Could a more powerful amp drive those speakers a bit better, could a new cartridge drag a bit more out of the grooves, could a new phono stage reveal some hidden depth to the music that I'm not hearing at the moment, and so on and so on.

In many ways this and other HiFi forums, the written word, those pesky YTer's all combine to get us thinking about the sound we have and just how much better it could be if we upgraded................

When I look back to my first TT a Sanyo music centre, I was over the moon to have it, that was it I was in musical heaven, I had no thought about upgrading. Move on a few years and I was working, money in my pocket, magazines available and all of a sudden I started thinking about what if I bought one of these and one of them and a pair those.

 

[plastic penguin]

I am happy with my system, I just have this belief that I could get more out of my vinyl, the Rega P3 is a damn good player as are the other components in my system, but am I getting the most out of everything that I have or can I give my ears a nicer experience.

Could a more powerful amp drive those speakers a bit better, could a new cartridge drag a bit more out of the grooves, could a new phono stage reveal some hidden depth to the music that I'm not hearing at the moment, and so on and so on.

In many ways this and other HiFi forums, the written word, those pesky YTer's all combine to get us thinking about the sound we have and just how much better it could be if we upgraded................

When I look back to my first TT a Sanyo music centre, I was over the moon to have it, that was it I was in musical heaven, I had no thought about upgrading. Move on a few years and I was working, money in my pocket, magazines available and all of a sudden I started thinking about what if I bought one of these and one of them and a pair those.

Think we all get that itch from time to time. When I do I think where can I improve on the musicality my system produces. Every time, I'm stumped. I'm not saying for one minute it cannot be improved on, of course it can. But for the money?

As regards your Rega P3, it's a very good turntable... the natural upgrade would be the P6 or RP6, assuming you want to stay with Rega. Otherwise, you could look at Clearaudio Concept or Pro-ject Classic. And I would upgrade the cartridge.

 

[bigfish786]

I’ve read so many times that more expensive kit reveals more of poor recordings and good ones are the only ones that sound good. In my own personal experience this has not been the case.
I now have a system that makes music musical, all of it, even the ones once thought of bad now sound good.

 

[plastic penguin]

I’ve read so many times that more expensive kit reveals more of poor recordings and good ones are the only ones that sound good. In my own personal experience this has not been the case.
I now have a system that makes music musical, all of it, even the ones once thought of bad now sound good.

I can only go on my own experience, first started off when I purchased the RS6s in 2005.

 

[Oxfordian]

As regards your Rega P3, it's a very good turntable... the natural upgrade would be the P6 or RP6, assuming you want to stay with Rega. Otherwise, you could look at Clearaudio Concept or Pro-ject Classic. And I would upgrade the cartridge.

I presumed that a P6 or P8 would be a logical upgrade route from a P3 but so far you are the only person to promote that path, most have gone Project in some form with the occasional vote for Clearaudio or Michell.

The cartridge is going to be upgraded next month, I have a Goldring 1042 and a Ortofon 2M Black to audition, not sure which way I will jump but the Goldring is £150 cheaper than the 2M Black so the Black would have to be absolutely stunning to convince me to spend the extra.

 

[plastic penguin]

I presumed that a P6 or P8 would be a logical upgrade route from a P3 but so far you are the only person to promote that path, most have gone Project in some form with the occasional vote for Clearaudio or Michell.

The cartridge is going to be upgraded next month, I have a Goldring 1042 and a Ortofon 2M Black to audition, not sure which way I will jump but the Goldring is £150 cheaper than the 2M Black so the Black would have to be absolutely stunning to convince me to spend the extra.

I'm a big advocate of staying with brands you know and like. This is what I tend to do. So many times I've come unstuck because of reputation and found they didn't live up to the reputation.

That's why in your thread I mentioned Hegel H160 before other suggestions, despite me previously owning the Tucana and love the brand overall.

The Goldring 1042 is on my shortlist when my stylus finally gives up.