Question Is hi-fi like wine?

[matthewpianist]

There are aspects of vinyl which can degrade the sound quality, noise floor perhaps being the most significant, but these depend on the turntable/arm/cartridge and how well they are set up. Get those things right, with clean vinyl in good condition, and the noise floor can be surprisingly low. The cost does prevent many people, including myself, from getting the best out of the format. I have heard it sounding truly incredible, though.

 

[podknocker]

There are aspects of vinyl which can degrade the sound quality, noise floor perhaps being the most significant, but these depend on the turntable/arm/cartridge and how well they are set up. Get those things right, with clean vinyl in good condition, and the noise floor can be surprisingly low. The cost does prevent many people, including myself, from getting the best out of the format. I have heard it sounding truly incredible, though.

I've heard vinyl at my local dealer through a pair of very expensive B&W speakers and it did sound excellent, but for much less money you can buy a CD based system and that will sound as good and it won't have all the 'anomalies' of vinyl and as you say, it's very expensive and for me the practicalities of CD or streaming in particular, far outweigh the inconvenience and physical bulk of vinyl. Selling my steamer and trying to replace the music I listen to would be impossible. I like an easy life, that's why I'm using Spotify and CDs. I don't want people to stop enjoying what they do, but the inertia and reluctance to explore streaming as a much more convenient way of playing tunes, just seems very stubborn.

 

[DougK1]

Maybe you should look into an Innuos Zen or Bluesound Vault or something like that?

As far as I can see John these are just a convenient but very expensive way of ripping/storing CDs. I'm not PC savvy but even I have managed to rip and store my CD collection using a far cheaper PC than either of these 'hifi' boxes.

Unfortunately these boxes might be your only route as you would need a digital input on your CDP in order to connect a PC, which I don't believe your player has.

 

[matthewpianist]

I've heard vinyl at my local dealer through a pair of very expensive B&W speakers and it did sound excellent, but for much less money you can buy a CD based system and that will sound as good and it won't have all the 'anomalies' of vinyl and as you say, it's very expensive and for me the practicalities of CD or streaming in particular, far outweigh the inconvenience and physical bulk of vinyl. Selling my steamer and trying to replace the music I listen to would be impossible. I like an easy life, that's why I'm using Spotify and CDs.

Part of my reason for remaining so loyal to CD is the investment I have made in a collection of some 4,000 discs. I've been collecting since I was about 13, so it's been 32 years of building!

 

[DougK1]

I like an easy life, that's why I'm using Spotify and CDs. I don't want people to stop enjoying what they do, but the inertia and reluctance to explore streaming as a much more convenient way of playing tunes, just seems very stubborn.

It's not people being stubborn or reluctant... it's choice. I have the capability to stream, play CDs or play LPs, I tend to go for the latter two and only use Spotify to find new music which I then purchase in a physical format.

 

[podknocker]

Part of my reason for remaining so loyal to CD is the investment I have made in a collection of some 4,000 discs. I've been collecting since I was about 13, so it's been 32 years of building!

Some would say you have too many CDs to listen to now, perhaps in a similar way to the 80 million tunes I can play on Spotify. More is better and better quality is better.

 

[podknocker]

I remember a few weeks ago, people were waiting for the latest Dire Straits live sessions to appear on vinyl and I'd already listened to the entire lot on Spotify. Go on, treat yourself and buy a streamer.

 

[matthewpianist]

I remember a few weeks ago, people were waiting for the latest Dire Straits live sessions to appear on vinyl and I'd already listened to the entire lot on Spotify. Go on, treat yourself and buy a streamer.

I have a very good one

 

[podknocker]

Albums are online the day they get released. I listen to online radio all day and if I hear a really good track, I will look for it on Spotify and I failed to find one yesterday. First time in hundreds. My Spotify AI DJ gave me the 2023 listening stats and I couldn't believe the amount of time I listen online, on top of the online radio. So much music I would never have thought of searching for, even in my favourite genres. I can't imagine life without Spotify now.

 

[mjsanders400]

I am wondering what you think, or what your experiences have been.

With wine, at supermarket / wine shop prices, going from the cheapest £3 bottle to £5 to £6 usually makes a decent improvement. Then noticeable quality starts to kick in at £10-15.

Beyond this price point I have always struggled to really taste a worthwhile difference for the additional cost. Admittedly the most expensive wine I have drunk has been around £50 for a bottle and I didn’t enjoy it (as much as I had hoped, maybe judging because of the price.

There is a lot of fuss and effort to review and give high accolades to very pricey wine. Is it real?

I wonder if hi if is the same. I remember upgrading my first richer sounds hi fi set up, going from £150 per item to £300 in the early 2000’s. I noticed a big step up In the first system from an all in one system we had a teenagers, then another big Jump when I doubled the value. This was the Cambridge audio 640a and c range at the time.

Kind of feels this first step was going from plonk to a £6 bottle, then the next upgrade to £10.

I have stepped up again recently with a new arcam sa 20 amp, ca cxn v2 and kef q750 speakers. So around £700-1000 per item. I hear a step up in detail, soundstage etc. and it feels like going from a £10 wine to maybe £15.

Have you made the jump to equipment costing £2000 per item and what the jump was like And whether the improvements versus the price point really justified it.

Or is it more of a hobby to be enjoyed?

Wine is very interesting as in a vast amount of blind tests (where the drinker has no idea what they are drinking) the one that often comes out on top is the cheapest. Why people pay what they do for Wine, or art for that matter is very complex and not always related to quality (real or perceived).

At least in Hi fi there are differences. There are differences in components, manufacture and design that make a difference to the average listener. Beyond that there's always been the argument can most people hear it and actually would they be better off spending a some money on some good soft furnishings and curtains to create a better listening environment.

 

[DougK1]

I remember a few weeks ago, people were waiting for the latest Dire Straits live sessions to appear on vinyl and I'd already listened to the entire lot on Spotify. Go on, treat yourself and buy a streamer.

I do admire your tenacity Pod

 

[Deleted member 201267]

Albums are online the day they get released. I listen to online radio all day and if I hear a really good track, I will look for it on Spotify and I failed to find one yesterday. First time in hundreds. My Spotify AI DJ gave me the 2023 listening stats and I couldn't believe the amount of time I listen online, on top of the online radio. So much music I would never have thought of searching for, even in my favourite genres. I can't imagine life without Spotify now.

All the last 15 or so albums i have bought on CD appear within hours of release on youtube. These are uploaded by the artists / acts themselves onto their own official youtube channel.

If available i then go ahead and purchase a CD copy as i like to have an actual copy of the disk in my hands. However playing the tracks off youtube often produces a better playback experience to me than playing the CD copy in question.

If my laptop ever breaks, or the internet goes down, i will always have my CD collection ready.

 

[Oxfordian]

I never said CD was an inferior format to streaming, but vinyl is. It is incredible that some people readily admit they are not interested in sound quality, it's just about the pleasure derived from the process, or ritual. If you're happy with this system you have, then fine, but I was under the impression this site was the pursuit of better sound quality. I must have misread the title.

Playing music from a vinyl source has been classed as HiFi since the term was instigated, that new formats have come along, CD and now streaming doesn't mean that vinyl replay is less than HiFi just because these new formats now exist.

In claiming that What HiFi is a forum that is in pursuit of ultimate High Fidelity is bizarre, in addition to claim that vinyl replay cannot possibly be classed in your world as HiFi is quite frankly even more bizarre. What HiFi is, is simply a forum where like minded folk can get together chew the fat, put the world to right and help each other get the most from the common fact that has brought them together - listening to music.

I do not judge others on this forum on their kit, I do not judge them on their chosen source, how any individual chooses to listen to music is their choice not mine and I respect that.

However, your constant belittling of Vinyl is becoming somewhat disturbing, you seem to be on some kind of crusade to have vinyl wiped from the face of the earth, you appear to be completely ignorant of the fact that there are many millions of vinyl users out there who are very very happy with the sound they get out of their speakers, in some cases a sound that would probably make your set-up appear pretty damn ordinary.

Streaming is new, it may well be the future, it may be simple to access, it may have unlimited tracks, but at this moment in time it is not the first choice as source material for many people and not every person streaming has a HiFi output.

Not every streamer uses an expensive streaming box and speakers to act as their source and output, in many cases it is just a phone and a pair of BT headphones used to offset the drudgery of the commute or help on the daily jog. So your claim that streaming is the answer to High Fidelity is complete nonsense.

There is ample space in the HiFi world for all these different methods of listening to music to co-exist quite happily, a vinyl junkie can stream music via a phone and headphones whilst on the work commute, equally they may also play CD's as well as Vinyl. There is nothing stopping a convert to streaming from having a vinyl set-up and adding a streaming box to his HiFi set-up.

So @podknocker please get off the vinyl is rubbish bandwagon, go and enjoy your streamed music, go an enjoy those 80,000,000 Hi-Res tracks all there at the click of your mouse or at the push of a button and leave those of us who are keen vinyl enthusiasts to enjoy our music in the way that we wish.

 

[Oxfordian]

I remember a few weeks ago, people were waiting for the latest Dire Straits live sessions to appear on vinyl and I'd already listened to the entire lot on Spotify. Go on, treat yourself and buy a streamer.

No waiting for me, delivered on release day and enjoyed that evening, who needs streaming!!

 

[podknocker]

No waiting for me, delivered on release day and enjoyed that evening, who needs streaming!!

You'll need streaming if your LPs get stolen, or your house burns down.

 

[Oxfordian]

Albums are online the day they get released. I listen to online radio all day and if I hear a really good track, I will look for it on Spotify and I failed to find one yesterday. First time in hundreds. My Spotify AI DJ gave me the 2023 listening stats and I couldn't believe the amount of time I listen online, on top of the online radio. So much music I would never have thought of searching for, even in my favourite genres. I can't imagine life without Spotify now.

I am delighted that you have found a source that fulfils your needs, congratulations.

Vinyl and CD's are my preferred sources but each to our own.

 

[Oxfordian]

You'll need streaming if your LPs get stolen, or your house burns down.

What a lovely comment, is it necessary to promote streaming as a resolution to someone's misfortune?

A comment in very bad taste @podknocker.

 

[podknocker]

What a lovely comment, is it necessary to promote streaming as a resolution to someone's misfortune?

A comment in very bad taste @podknocker.

Not meant to be in bad taste at all, but many treasure their collections and have them destroyed in fires and floods, or get them stolen. They take up a lot of space and are made of cardboard and plastic. Next to books, they must be the worst fire hazard.

 

[DougK1]

You'll need streaming if your LPs get stolen, or your house burns down.

And you'll need physical formats if your internet goes down

 

[Oxfordian]

All the last 15 or so albums i have bought on CD appear within hours of release on youtube. These are uploaded by the artists / acts themselves onto their own official youtube channel.

If available i then go ahead and purchase a CD copy as i like to have an actual copy of the disk in my hands. However playing the tracks off youtube often produces a better playback experience to me than playing the CD copy in question.

If my laptop ever breaks, or the internet goes down, i will always have my CD collection ready.

There is also a financial aspect to consider, a CD or vinyl collection has a value so in the event that you want to raise some money a collection could be sold. My kids have ear marked my vinyl collection as something to sell when they wheel me off to the old codgers care home and need to pay the fees.

 

[podknocker]

And you'll need physical formats if your internet goes down

People do mention this, but my interweb has been very stable and had less than a day of downtime in 21 years. I work in IT and can pull strings if I need to! I still have CDs and most of the music I have is still stuff I like to listen to. If I lost all my CDs and the interweb was down, I would find something else to do. I love music, but it's not the most important thing in life.

 

[Friesiansam]

I buy CDs and rip them to my PC. Means I have both a hard copy and maximum convenience when I want to listen but, stap me what I don't do, is tell other people how they should acquire and listen to their music. Just get on with your preferred way of doing things and, let others do the same.

 

[Oxfordian]

Not meant to be in bad taste all, but many treasure their collections and have them destroyed in fires and floods, or get them stolen. They take up a lot of space and are made of cardboard and plastic. Next to books, they must be the worst fire hazard.

It was a comment in bad taste and you now compound it.

 

[Oxfordian]

I buy CDs and rip them to my PC. Means I have both a hard copy and maximum convenience when I want to listen but, stap me what I don't do, is tell other people how they should acquire and listen to their music. Just get on with your preferred way of doing things and, let others do the same.

I have just done that and put everything onto an external hard drive and two USB drives, one of the USB drives is now in my car, 4000+ tracks on shuffle. Awesome.

 

[JDL]

As far as I can see John these are just a convenient but very expensive way of ripping/storing CDs. I'm not PC savvy but even I have managed to rip and store my CD collection using a far cheaper PC than either of these 'hifi' boxes.

Unfortunately these boxes might be your only route as you would need a digital input on your CDP in order to connect a PC, which I don't believe your player has.

It has digital outputs is that not the same?