Question Is hi-fi like wine?

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Friesiansam

Well-known member
I have just done that and put everything onto an external hard drive and two USB drives, one of the USB drives is now in my car, 4000+ tracks on shuffle. Awesome.
I would strongly recommend you get yourself a USB HDD back-up drive for long term reliability, I mean actual old school spinning disks. A solid state device can lose stored data, if you forget to power it up from time to time. I have one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00JT8AJZ0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
 

DougK1

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Jan 4, 2024
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It has digital outputs is that not the same?
A digital output will bypass the DAC in your CDP, a digital input would use the DAC in your CDP. As you like the sound of the DAC in your player it's a shame that you won't be able to use it. This is the one drawback of older kit, it doesn't have the connectivity of later devices.
 

Oxfordian

Well-known member
I would strongly recommend you get yourself a USB HDD back-up drive for long term reliability, I mean actual old school spinning disks. A solid state device can lose stored data, if you forget to power it up from time to time. I have one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00JT8AJZ0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
Sorry I should have been clearer, I have the file in 4 places, main computer hard drive, an external HDD (spin type) and two USB Memory sticks. I think that should be enough back ups but I might do another one along with my photo files and keep it at my kids place.
 
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Oxfordian

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Part of my reason for remaining so loyal to CD is the investment I have made in a collection of some 4,000 discs. I've been collecting since I was about 13, so it's been 32 years of building!
Now that's a nice sized collection, well done. It is satisfying when you look at what you have achieved over the years, the music you have listened too and the memories that you have created over that time.

But it's also frightening when you analyse what you have spent over the years, I dare not tell Mrs O what I have spent over the years. :eek:
 

podknocker

Well-known member
Sorry I should have been clearer, I have the file in 4 places, main computer hard drive, an external HDD (spin type) and two USB Memory sticks. I think that should be enough back ups but I might do another one along with my photo files and keep it at my kids place.
It's a good idea to keep at least 2 copies of ripped files, such as FLACs. Keeping them on hard drives is a bad idea, because if you drop it, it's game over. I lost 3TB of data a few years ago when I dropped my HDD on the living room carpet. SSDs are more stable as they have no moving parts and the price per GB is really low these days. Best thing to do is keep 2 copies on SSDs or USB drives and then keep a 3rd copy on your Onedrive. It's not too expensive and you can rest assured Microsoft will keep multiple backups of your data over several drives.
 
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matthewpianist

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Now that's a nice sized collection, well done. It is satisfying when you look at what you have achieved over the years, the music you have listened too and the memories that you have created over that time.

But it's also frightening when you analyse what you have spent over the years, I dare not tell Mrs O what I have spent over the years. :eek:

Many have special memories attached such as who gifted me the voucher that bought them, where I bought them, trips to HMV with Dad when I was a teen, things that were happening in my life at the time...

I'm not even going to contemplate how much it's all cost over the years, other than to say that I've massively reduced my purchasing now, and I limit myself to only buying the things I will listen to several times.
 
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Friesiansam

Well-known member
Keeping them on hard drives is a bad idea, because if you drop it, it's game over. I lost 3TB of data a few years ago when I dropped my HDD on the living room carpet. SSDs are more stable as they have no moving parts and the price per GB is really low these days.
The NAND flash chips in an SSD, store data as tiny electrical charges and, these slowly (very slowly) leak away, so the data is lost. Because of that, you must power the drive up from time to time. HDDS designed for archive use, have much greater reliability, when it comes to retaining data long term. As for breaking HDDs by dropping them, don’t be a clumsy doofus!😁
 
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Oxfordian

Well-known member
The NAND flash chips in an SSD, store data as tiny electrical charges and, these slowly (very slowly) leak away, so the data is lost. Because of that, you must power the drive up from time to time. HDDS designed for archive use have much greater reliability, when it comes to retaining data long term. As for breaking HDDs by dropping them, don’t be a clumsy doofus!😁
I have found a SSD drive which I bought last year on a silly cheap deal, forgot it was in my computer box, now I have both formats.
 

podknocker

Well-known member
@podknocker . A few times you have said that CD sounds “better”. I would say that CD /digital is more …accurate. I have a few CD’s (Telarc (brand) among others) that vinyl couldn’t hope to replicate. I would suggest though that vinyl sounds…nicer, to my ears. Advancement isn’t everything.
Surely, the accurate reproduction of a recording is more important than you liking the sound of it, or not. We all have our preferences, but being accurate is the goal of a HIFI system. If you have a good recording, then it should sound pleasant. If a poor recording is plonked onto a CD and it sounds terrible, then blame the recording, not the CD format, for giving you an accurate reproduction of a poor recording. I've said this many times and people still don't get it. Advancement IS everything, that's the point. Technology gets better and CD IS better than vinyl. It will get you closer to the original recording than an LP record. I have CDs of great recordings and they sound incredible. Modern, high resolution and carefully mastered recordings will shine on CD. Previous formats will struggle to resolve the sound of a state of the art recording. An older, really good quality recording, like something from The Carpenters will sound better than ever on CD. There is no chance of any domestic playback device in the 70s giving you a true rendition of Karen Carpenter and the fabulous production methods they insisted on. You had poor quality record players and AM radio. CD has brought these older, quality recordings back to life. I listen to The Carpenters on lossy Spotify and sometimes it stops me doing what I'm doing and really appreciate the quality of the recording. I bought some of The Carpenters on CD and it's truly amazing. With the surface noise of vinyl, CD wins by default. Many people say they don't mind this noise, but as it's not part of the recording, it can't be useful, or desirable. Bonkers. I'm 54 and I've been listening to CDs for nearly 40 years and to me they sound superb. I have a decent system and really enjoy the sound, although I do stream most of my music now, at a lower quality. CD has perfect pitch stability, amazing S/N ratio and dynamic range. There are higher res formats, but I don't think they are necessary unless you have a really good amp and speakers to allow the resolution to be realised. If the mastering process is given the same care and attention as with LPs, then CD is able to capture and reproduce a very close approximation of the studio recording. LPs cannot resolve this and that's why many prefer the sound of vinyl as it will flatter a poor recording, due to the lower resolution. CDs have higher resolution, so will reveal and limitations of the recording equipment. I prefer the warts and all presentation of CDs, although I tend to listen to CDs where the recording AND mastering techniques are as high quality as they can be. My favourite album is the first Dire Straits album, released in 1978 and it is a quality recording. The effort and care in the recording really shines through on CD and there is no chance any domestic playback format in 1978 would have come anywhere near the sound of this album on CD. Again, you would have had poor quality record players and AM radio. It's taken the invention of CD and new formats to realise the quality, or lack of quality, in older recordings. I recently bought a double LP album of a new release, as it's not going to be released on CD, which is a shame. I feel the royalties from streaming are poor, so I bought this album to contribute to the artist and perhaps, if left unopened, it could become a collectable item and hopefully double, or triple in value. I won't be rushing out to buy a turntable to establish what I already know about the quality of vinyl playback. I won't deny this album would sound great on a decent turntable and system, perhaps better than low res streaming on Spotify, but I'm sure a well mastered version on CD would have been amazing. Unless it's released on CD at some point, I'll never know.
 
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Friesiansam

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Surely, the accurate reproduction of a recording is more important than you liking the sound of it, or not.
Have to disagree there. Surely what matters most, is that your system pleases you and, you enjoy listening to it. If absolute accuracy is what pleases you, that's great but, not everyone likes that. Some people find prioritising accuracy results in a clinical sound, like me. I prefer more liveliness, as my head amp and headphones provide. I'm not going to compromise on what pleases me, just so that the sound is "accurate".
 

podknocker

Well-known member
Have to disagree there. Surely what matters most, is that your system pleases you and, you enjoy listening to it. If absolute accuracy is what pleases you, that's great but, not everyone likes that. Some people find prioritising accuracy results in a clinical sound, like me. I prefer more liveliness, as my head amp and headphones provide. I'm not going to compromise on what pleases me, just so that the sound is "accurate".
A good quality system, using the right components and listening to the best recordings, on the right format, should give you accuracy and be a pleasure to listen to.
 

Gray

Well-known member
Have to disagree there. Surely what matters most, is that your system pleases you and, you enjoy listening to it. If absolute accuracy is what pleases you, that's great but, not everyone likes that. Some people find prioritising accuracy results in a clinical sound, like me. I prefer more liveliness, as my head amp and headphones provide. I'm not going to compromise on what pleases me, just so that the sound is "accurate".
I reckon you've at least got an ingredient of accuracy.

To me, liveliness is a major part of accuracy.
Nothing can make a piece of music sound any more lively than it actually is.

But it can be (and often is) made to sound less lively - with muted HF / slow transients etc. and that, is undeniably inaccurate.
 

Freddy58

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Surely, the accurate reproduction of a recording is more important than you liking the sound of it, or not. We all have our preferences, but being accurate is the goal of a HIFI system. If you have a good recording, then it should sound pleasant. nd incredible.
“Surely, the accurate reproduction of a recording is more important than you liking the sound of it…”
No, the music and my liking of how it sounds is everything.
”being accurate is the goal of HIFI”
No, to me the goal of HIFI is to produce a sound that pleases my ears.
Don’t get me wrong, I probably have thousands of CD’s, so I have no particular axe to grind, and I’m fully aware of their capabilities, but for an outright pleasurable experience, sorry, vinyl wins.
 

Stuart83

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Jul 22, 2023
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All I know is I have CDs and records of the same thing and when using CDs miss is the tactility of playing a record.
The romance.
Please forgive me but I've gone from being a part time DJ and throwing them around with no regard to scratches, cleaning them in the sink and even sticking them to the wall on display and shooting them in with airguns only to find yrs later they are worth 100s. especially early hardcore to now running my fingers over a cherished album cover then gently placing the needle into the groove.
I then take the sleeve back to my listening post and look at either tha art work given that it's nice and large or read what's in the sleeve.
It sounds almost weird perhaps I am, but I like the whole ritual of playing records.
 

Fandango Andy

Well-known member
Surely, the accurate reproduction of a recording is more important than you liking the sound of it, or not. We all have our preferences, but being accurate is the goal of a HIFI system. If you have a good recording, then it should sound pleasant. If a poor recording is plonked onto a CD and it sounds terrible, then blame the recording, not the CD format, for giving you an accurate reproduction of a poor recording. I've said this many times and people still don't get it. Advancement IS everything, that's the point. Technology gets better and CD IS better than vinyl. It will get you closer to the original recording than an LP record. I have CDs of great recordings and they sound incredible. Modern, high resolution and carefully mastered recordings will shine on CD. Previous formats will struggle to resolve the sound of a state of the art recording. An older, really good quality recording, like something from The Carpenters will sound better than ever on CD. There is no chance of any domestic playback device in the 70s giving you a true rendition of Karen Carpenter and the fabulous production methods they insisted on. You had poor quality record players and AM radio. CD has brought these older, quality recordings back to life. I listen to The Carpenters on lossy Spotify and sometimes it stops me doing what I'm doing and really appreciate the quality of the recording. I bought some of The Carpenters on CD and it's truly amazing. With the surface noise of vinyl, CD wins by default. Many people say they don't mind this noise, but as it's not part of the recording, it can't be useful, or desirable. Bonkers. I'm 54 and I've been listening to CDs for nearly 40 years and to me they sound superb. I have a decent system and really enjoy the sound, although I do stream most of my music now, at a lower quality. CD has perfect pitch stability, amazing S/N ratio and dynamic range. There are higher res formats, but I don't think they are necessary unless you have a really good amp and speakers to allow the resolution to be realised. If the mastering process is given the same care and attention as with LPs, then CD is able to capture and reproduce a very close approximation of the studio recording. LPs cannot resolve this and that's why many prefer the sound of vinyl as it will flatter a poor recording, due to the lower resolution. CDs have higher resolution, so will reveal and limitations of the recording equipment. I prefer the warts and all presentation of CDs, although I tend to listen to CDs where the recording AND mastering techniques are as high quality as they can be. My favourite album is the first Dire Straits album, released in 1978 and it is a quality recording. The effort and care in the recording really shines through on CD and there is no chance any domestic playback format in 1978 would have come anywhere near the sound of this album on CD. Again, you would have had poor quality record players and AM radio. It's taken the invention of CD and new formats to realise the quality, or lack of quality, in older recordings. I recently bought a double LP album of a new release, as it's not going to be released on CD, which is a shame. I feel the royalties from streaming are poor, so I bought this album to contribute to the artist and perhaps, if left unopened, it could become a collectable item and hopefully double, or triple in value. I won't be rushing out to buy a turntable to establish what I already know about the quality of vinyl playback. I won't deny this album would sound great on a decent turntable and system, perhaps better than low res streaming on Spotify, but I'm sure a well mastered version on CD would have been amazing. Unless it's released on CD at some point, I'll never know.
While so much of what you say makes perfect sense, I have to disagree with "Surely, the accurate reproduction of a recording is more important than you liking the sound".

Every system, and every room will add so.e "colour" to playback. Some remastered recordings may be clearer, but have less dynamic range.

Two things spring to mind. When I was a teenager I visited a few hifi shops with my father who was buying a new system. Whe listened to a lot over a few weeks. It soon became clear he liked the systems with the greater clarity, I liked a warmer sound and a more punchy midrange. Thirty years on this is now evident in our respective systems.

The other, I was in a customers house last year, I complimented him on his system, me made a comment (clearly a dig at his wife) about how it was nice to meet someone who appreciated quality hifi equipment. I think he would have happily talked all day about his set-up, but when I asked him about what music he listened to, he wasn't really that interested.

When we for searching for the perfect recording and the best playback we are in danger of listening to the system not the music. Liking how something sounds is all that matters.
 

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