Cables Make No Difference - Thread for the people who think this is true to comment in

[chebby]

I listen to music on my laptop that only has 2 speakers spaced 2 feet away from each other .... yet some of the sound/music seems to be coming from the centre of my laptop screen? Science also cannot explain that

Oh for gawd's sake!

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=GB&NR=394325&KC=&FT=E&locale=en_EP

 

[steve_1979]

taught science is often misleading .... My father's father was taught in science class that the earth is flat

Unless he grew up here, I doubt that was really true. (And if it was true his teacher should have been sacked.)

I know someone who was taught at school that crators on the moon were made by nuclear weapons testing. He believed it for many years until adulthood too.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I remember being taught men landed on the moon...... Prrrrft, as if

taught science is often misleading .... My father's father was taught in science class that the earth is flat

Unless he grew up here, I doubt that was really true. (And if it was true his teacher should have been sacked.)

I know someone who was taught at school that crators on the moon were made by nuclear weapons testing. He believed it for many years until adulthood too.

 

[bigboss]

And not only I heard differences, but so did my wife and teenage son.

Where have I heard that one before...

The teenaged son is a new entry. *scratch_one-s_head*

 

[Paul.]

I put some new speakers in my car (nothing visible and chavvy). My wife got in the car and said "even I can hear the difference". Because of you lot, my first instinct was FFS I've wasted my money!

 

[dim_span]

does anyone disagree with this statement:? (found on the internet)

There is one application for interconnects where the sound can[/i] change radically. This is when connecting between a turntable and associated phono cartridge and your preamp. Use of the lowest possible capacitance you can find is very important, because the inductance of the cartridge coupled with the capacitance of the cable can cause a resonant circuit within the audio band.

Should you end up with just the right (or wrong) capacitance, you may find that an otherwise respected cartridge sounds dreadful, with grossly accentuated high frequency performance. The only way to minimise this is to ensure that the interconnects have very low capacitance, and they must[/b] be shielded to prevent hum and noise from being picked up

If you agree that the above is correct, then that proves that cables can and do make a difference

 

[andyjm]

does anyone disagree with this statement:? (found on the internet)

There is one application for interconnects where the sound can change radically. This is when connecting between a turntable and associated phono cartridge and your preamp. Use of the lowest possible capacitance you can find is very important, because the inductance of the cartridge coupled with the capacitance of the cable can cause a resonant circuit within the audio band.Should you end up with just the right (or wrong) capacitance, you may find that an otherwise respected cartridge sounds dreadful, with grossly accentuated high frequency performance. The only way to minimise this is to ensure that the interconnects have very low capacitance, and they must be shielded to prevent hum and noise from being picked up

If you agree that the above is correct, then that proves that cables can and do make a difference

Good grief. How many times do I have to post this.

OF COURSE CABLES MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

Everything makes a difference.

The question that seems to be lost on a good portion of those posting, is whether that difference matters and whether it is audible. In areas of the signal chain where sink and source impedance is high (like your cartridge example), in certain conditions cables with wildly differing levels of inter-conductor capacitance may well make a difference that is audible.

In speaker cables sink and source impedance is so low that about the only thing that matters is resistance. Thick is good.

In mains cables, any old cable will do (as long as it is intact).

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Andy, before you get too old to care test that theory ref mains cables.

Its shocking how much difference they can make. More so than interconnects.

Don't take my word for it though.

If you have an amp with a changeable mains lead try it.

does anyone disagree with this statement:? (found on the internet)

There is one application for interconnects where the sound can change radically.  This is when connecting between a turntable and associated phono cartridge and your preamp.  Use of the lowest possible capacitance you can find is very important, because the inductance of the cartridge coupled with the capacitance of the cable can cause a resonant circuit within the audio band.Should you end up with just the right (or wrong) capacitance, you may find that an otherwise respected cartridge sounds dreadful, with grossly accentuated high frequency performance.  The only way to minimise this is to ensure that the interconnects have very low capacitance, and they must be shielded to prevent hum and noise from being picked up

If you agree that the above is correct, then that proves that cables can and do make a difference

Good grief.  How many times do I have to post this.?

OF COURSE CABLES MAKE A DIFFERENCE.?

Everything makes a difference.

The question that seems to be lost on a good portion of those posting, is whether that difference matters and whether it is audible.  In areas of the signal chain where sink and source impedance is high (like your cartridge example), in certain conditions cables with wildly differing levels of inter-conductor capacitance may well make a difference that is audible.

In speaker cables sink and source impedance is so low that about the only thing that matters is resistance. Thick is good.

In mains cables, any old cable will do (as long as it is intact).

 

 

[pauln]

does anyone disagree with this statement:? (found on the internet)

There is one application for interconnects where the sound can change radically. This is when connecting between a turntable and associated phono cartridge and your preamp. Use of the lowest possible capacitance you can find is very important, because the inductance of the cartridge coupled with the capacitance of the cable can cause a resonant circuit within the audio band.Should you end up with just the right (or wrong) capacitance, you may find that an otherwise respected cartridge sounds dreadful, with grossly accentuated high frequency performance. The only way to minimise this is to ensure that the interconnects have very low capacitance, and they must be shielded to prevent hum and noise from being picked up

If you agree that the above is correct, then that proves that cables can and do make a difference

Hey, Dim, you should look up "logical fallacy" - you might then realise how flawed your argument is.

 

[pauln]

Andy, before you get too old to care test that theory ref mains cables.

Its shocking how much difference they can make. More so than interconnects.

Don't take my word for it though.

If you have an amp with a changeable mains lead try it.

What makes you think that non believers have never tried other cables? I'm pretty sure many have and have found no difference and that's why they think the way they do. The fact that their subjective experience is backed up by well understood science and tonnes of blind testing and yours isn't... well that's just the icing on the cake really.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Pauln.... I am not arguing with you or trying to convince anyone of anything - like I have said it's pointless arguing this over the internet if his tried it already fine.

Honestly!

Andy, before you get too old to care test that theory ref mains cables.

Its shocking how much difference they can make. More so than interconnects.

Don't take my word for it though.

If you have an amp with a changeable mains lead try it.

What makes you think that non believers have never tried other cables? I'm pretty sure many have and have found no difference and that's why they think the way they do. The fact that their subjective experience is backed up by well understood science and tonnes of blind testing and yours isn't... well that's just the icing on the cake really.

 

[TrevC]

I put some new speakers in my car (nothing visible and chavvy). My wife got in the car and said "even I can hear the difference". Because of you lot, my first instinct was FFS I've wasted my money!

You appear to misunderstand the thread. Nobody said speakers make no difference. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[TrevC]

I listen to music on my laptop that only has 2 speakers spaced 2 feet away from each other .... yet some of the sound/music seems to be coming from the centre of my laptop screen? Science also cannot explain that

It's stereo. It's an illusion of solidity created by sound coming from two separate sources. TrevC will probably be along to tell us we're all being fooled.

I'm glad it's stereo and not science *biggrin*

It's science enabled, just like your computer.

 

[TrevC]

I listen to music on my laptop that only has 2 speakers spaced 2 feet away from each other .... yet some of the sound/music seems to be coming from the centre of my laptop screen? Science also cannot explain that

It's stereo. It's an illusion of solidity created by sound coming from two separate sources. TrevC will probably be along to tell us we're all being fooled.

We are, but in a good way.

 

[andyjm]

Thompson,

I have told this story a number of times, so apologies to anyone who has heard me recount this before.

As a newly minted electronic engineer, I went to work at the research and designs group of a well known broadcaster. At the time, the majority of speakers used for studio monitoring were in-house designs, and the speaker team were highly regarded. As a hifi enthusiast, every now and then I would go and pester the speaker team to hear their speakers. Eventually they took pity on me and invited me into their auditioning room - which had 4 or 5 of the development models of their latest design. They played each speaker in turn to me, explaining the problems, and how the next version corrected the problems in the previous version, but in turn had problems of its own.

I felt pretty good, I could clearly identify all of the problems they described, and clearly hear how later versions had solved the problems, and identify the new issues that later designs introduced.

Except they had only played one speaker.

A lesson that has stuck with me - don't ever trust your ears. Auditioning has its place, but you need to ensure that the biases that may be present are compensated for, or all you are listening to are your own expectations.

- and as for mains cables, a bit of research into how power supplies work would clearly illustrate that the claims made for mains cables are nonsense. You may well believe that they make a difference, and maybe you have some problem somewhere in your system that moving all the stuff around to change cables effects, but the mains cables themselves really won't (and can't) make a difference.

Perhaps you could link to a independent study, or test, or research paper that in any way justifies a view that changing the mains lead on a domestic hifi component results in a change in sound quality. I have looked, and I can't find anything (the 'studies' published by cable manufacturers to justify their own cables really don't count).

 

[TrevC]

The solidly chunky PowerKord-8 feels like a distinct upgrade. Giving our review sample the twisting Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, it let our kit produce sharp, detailed images.

Colour was natural, with convincing skin tones, while sonically this mains lead gave our setup a wide, revealing sound that's tonally integrated and kicks like a mule when required.

If you're fishing around for a second upgrade, this should be on your list.

Read more at http://www.whathifi.com/russ-andrews/powerkord-8/review#WEZAflrXDq9XkEvL.99

That's an expert review, that is. *wacko*

 

[andyjm]

The solidly chunky PowerKord-8 feels like a distinct upgrade. Giving our review sample the twisting Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, it let our kit produce sharp, detailed images.

Colour was natural, with convincing skin tones, while sonically this mains lead gave our setup a wide, revealing sound that's tonally integrated and kicks like a mule when required.

If you're fishing around for a second upgrade, this should be on your list.

Read more at http://www.whathifi.com/russ-andrews/powerkord-8/review#WEZAflrXDq9XkEvL.99

That's an expert review, that is. *wacko*

Personally, I wouldn't touch anything that didn't make my blacks, blacker.

 

[Vladimir]

I have told this story a number of times, so apologies to anyone who has heard me recount this before.

First time I've read it and I appreciate you writing it again for us.

 

[MeanandGreen]

The solidly chunky PowerKord-8 feels like a distinct upgrade. Giving our review sample the twisting Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, it let our kit produce sharp, detailed images.

Colour was natural, with convincing skin tones, while sonically this mains lead gave our setup a wide, revealing sound that's tonally integrated and kicks like a mule when required.

If you're fishing around for a second upgrade, this should be on your list.

Read more at http://www.whathifi.com/russ-andrews/powerkord-8/review#WEZAflrXDq9XkEvL.99

That's an expert review, that is. *wacko*

There really should be a law against reviews like this. 5 stars for a £75 mains lead, which will do exactly the same job as any kettle lead. The utter bull which comes from the A/V press really is laughable.

Reading guff like that makes me question their opinion on everything.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Yes I recall that tale Andy.

If I remember right I said you were lead to agree due to fear of not appearing 'onboard'....peer pressure.

Now you'd confidently tell the truth differences or non. It's like being sent for a left handed hammer.

But I have to repeat myself once again there is no point arguing about differences in cables that's why I'd suggest you try them.

It's not an issue if you hear no difference, but if you do hey ho.

In my set my mains and speaker cables are my reference I won't swap them, they deliver

We'll apart from the time I tested the connection plates on my speakers before bi-wiring them.

Oh, then there was the time when I had the Rotel ra-1520 to see if I could improve the sound - this is when I found out just how much power chords matter.

But apart from that I don't swap them.

Interconnects I swap around as they are easy to access and hear the differences, but hey.

And do trust your ears, regardless..... If in doubt listen to the lyrics of 'satisfaction' by the rolling stones.

Don't ever be afraid of your own senses or allow someone else's influence to affect what you know you heard.

Thompson,

I have told this story a number of times, so apologies to anyone who has heard me recount this before.?

As a newly minted electronic engineer, I went to work at the research and designs group of a well known broadcaster.  At the time, the majority of speakers used for studio monitoring were in-house designs, and the speaker team were highly regarded.  As a hifi enthusiast, every now and then I would go and pester the speaker team to hear their speakers.  Eventually they took pity on me and invited me into their auditioning room - which had 4 or 5 of the development models of their latest design.  They played each speaker in turn to me, explaining the problems, and how the next version corrected the problems in the previous version, but in turn had problems of its own.

I felt pretty good, I could clearly identify all of the problems they described, and clearly hear how later versions had solved the problems, and identify the new issues that later designs introduced.

Except they had only played one speaker.?

A lesson that has stuck with me - don't ever trust your ears.  Auditioning has its place, but you need to ensure that the biases that may be present are compensated for, or all you are listening to are your own expectations.

 - and as for mains cables, a bit of research into how power supplies work would clearly illustrate that the claims made for mains cables are nonsense. You may well believe that they make a difference, and maybe you have some problem somewhere in your system that moving all the stuff around to change cables effects, but the mains cables themselves really won't (and can't) make a difference.

Perhaps you could link to a independent study, or test, or research paper that in any way justifies a view that changing the mains lead on a domestic hifi component results in a change in sound quality.  I have looked, and I can't find anything (the 'studies' published by cable manufacturers to justify their own cables really don't count).   ?

        

 

[Paul.]

I put some new speakers in my car (nothing visible and chavvy). My wife got in the car and said "even I can hear the difference". Because of you lot, my first instinct was FFS I've wasted my money!

You appear to misunderstand the thread. Nobody said speakers make no difference. Quite the opposite in fact.

it was a joke.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I felt pretty good, I could clearly identify all of the problems they described, and clearly hear how later versions had solved the problems, and identify the new issues that later designs introduced.

Except they had only played one speaker.

​A good lesson, but doesn't really prove that cables can't make a difference. What you experienced is the differences you can hear when someone tells you the difference you are going to hear - the power of suggestion. I don't like telling people the differences they're going to hear, partly because they might not hear it, and partly because I'm then programming them to hear it. I'd prefer an individual hear whatever difference is apparent for themselves. Although you can advise people on how to listen...

 

[Vladimir]

All truth passes through three stages.

First, it is ridiculed.

Second, it is violently opposed.

Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer

 

[TrevC]

I put some new speakers in my car (nothing visible and chavvy). My wife got in the car and said "even I can hear the difference". Because of you lot, my first instinct was FFS I've wasted my money!

You appear to misunderstand the thread. Nobody said speakers make no difference. Quite the opposite in fact.

it was a joke.

It was hilarious, in that case. Very well done!

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Lol.....

All truth passes through three stages.

First, it is ridiculed.

Second, it is violently opposed.

Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer