Cable Directionality - do you want proof

[Infiniteloop]

....however this thread to me is about trying to prevent newcomers to HiFi getting suckered into this nonsense.

Nail -> head. I've often been accused of labouring the same point on and on, most recently in the 'other' cable thread when a newby asked about USB cables, but I do it because I believe the facts (where there are any) have the right to be given more exposure in a response than voodoo mumbo jumbo. Otherwise how are people who genuinely don't know the facts going to know who to believe? Perhaps there's times I come across wrongly, e.g.: condescending or self-righteous; I don't ever really mean to do that, but if someone asks "What's the moon made out of" and the first reply says "green cheese", it's just not in my nature to come back with "no it's made of rock" and say no more about it, particularly if someone else comes along and says "No it's cheese" too. I know I've already said my piece, but two people have told him it's cheese when I know fundamentally that's wrong, and I admit it, at that point I struggle keeping my trap shut.

Interesting then, isn't it, that you visit and post on a site which has paid reviewers that listen to and write about the sound quality of cables?

 

[Infiniteloop]

durdle, durdle, durdle, durdle situation

cable, cable, cable, cable situation surely?

 

[MajorFubar]

Interesting then, isn't it, that you visit and post on a site which has paid reviewers that listen to and write about the sound quality of cables?

I visit and post on a site tat has people asking questions about HiFi, that hopefully I can sometimes answer and help them with. I've not actually bought the magazine regularly any time this century.

 

[MajorFubar]

Your question is easy to answer no one is saying all theorem on electricity is wrong. Of course not.

How much of any of it is related to sq in it's description and discovery I doubt any. I doubt anyone have it a second thought

You're kidding me, right?

What about all the world's recording engineers, producers, all the technicians who cable-up live gigs, recording studios, mikes, studio monitors, front of house, back of house, wouldn't they perhaps have disovered something? They'd tell you this guy's a con man. Are they all wrong? Tell you what I'll go tell Bob Clearmountain that he's been missing a trick all these 40 years or so by not checking which way the speaker cables are wired up in his studio. Oh and all his mikes. In fact holy crap suppose the manufacturer of an XLR cable accidentally puts the socket and plug on the wrong end of the cable....

No you guys are crazy. It's not just us failing to be open minded. You're crazy because you sit at home at the apex of your little triangle and the playback side is all you know. You've never experienced any part of the process that goes into making and producing the music you hear. If you was just a little bit more experienced on that side of it, you wouldn't need us to tell you it's a load of old hogwash, you'd recognise it for yourself.

 

[CnoEvil]

durdle, durdle, durdle, durdle situation

cable, cable, cable, cable situation surely?

It's a "Norn Iron" thing.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Interesting then, isn't it, that you visit and post on a site which has paid reviewers that listen to and write about the sound quality of cables?

I visit and post on a site tat has people asking questions about HiFi, that hopefully I can sometimes answer and help them with. I've not actually bought the magazine regularly any time this century.

Then perhaps you could answer my question?.....

 

[CnoEvil]

durdle, durdle, durdle, durdle situation

cable, cable, cable, cable situation surely?

It's a "Norn Iron" thing.

I cut and paste your response from the other thread, it's magic. I actually had to say it out loud to myself because it reads so funny, it's better said though!!!

I suspect everyone else thinks we're mad.

 

[ellisdj]

Your question is easy to answer no one is saying all theorem on electricity is wrong. Of course not.

How much of any of it is related to sq in it's description and discovery I doubt any. I doubt anyone have it a second thought

You're kidding me, right?

What about all the world's recording engineers, producers, all the technicians who cable-up live gigs, recording studios, mikes, studio monitors, front of house, back of house, they'd tell you this guy's a con man. Are they all wrong? Tell you what I'll go tell Bob Clearmountain that he's been missing a trick all these 40 years or so by not checking which way the speaker cables are wired up in his studio. Oh and all his mikes. In fact holy crap suppose the manufacturer of an XLR cable accidentally puts the socket and plug on the wrong end of the cable....

No you guys are crazy. It's not just us failing to be open minded. You're crazy because you sit at home at the apex of your little triangle and you've never experienced any part of the process that goes into making and producing the music you hear. If you was just a little bit more experienced on that side of it, you wouldn't need us to tell you it's a load of old hogwash, you'd recognise it for yourself.

The part you highlighted in bold - I meant when people were discovering electricity or designing the supply for the home or anything studied related to it I doubt anyone gave audio quality a second thought - not people using electricity in music production or whatever

You make a very valid point there about studios etc - cant deny that one, as have a lot other people in the thread. I have no counter arguement - I have worked with live pa and never considered the direction of the cable at anytime time however there is often a different end from kit to kit and a lot stayed plugged in all the time, so I guess it was often wired the same way anyway - it never sounded any good though really and I didnt really care.

I dont see why one would need a production level of knowledge sit and hear change in their sound system at home, this is the only thing overlooked in your very well written and valid points

As I said before - I hear the sound change - What I am I supposed to think - oh no it didnt because the studio doesnt directionalise its mic cables so I cant have heard it. Is that what you think I should do? Again not trying to argue just asking??

 

[MajorFubar]

Interesting then, isn't it, that you visit and post on a site which has paid reviewers that listen to and write about the sound quality of cables?

I visit and post on a site tat has people asking questions about HiFi, that hopefully I can sometimes answer and help them with. I've not actually bought the magazine regularly any time this century.

Then perhaps you could answer my question?.....

Apologies...I wasnt aware I had missed it? Are you asking if I agree or disgree with the cables reviews? It depends. I don't need proof that analogue cables can and do sound different; I've recently binned a cheap headphone cable from china because it sounded pants. But some BS is easy to smell from a mile away and yes I don't agree with all their reviews.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Interesting then, isn't it, that you visit and post on a site which has paid reviewers that listen to and write about the sound quality of cables?

I visit and post on a site tat has people asking questions about HiFi, that hopefully I can sometimes answer and help them with. I've not actually bought the magazine regularly any time this century.

Then perhaps you could answer my question?.....

Apologies...I wasnt aware I had missed it? Are you asking if I agree or disgree with the cables reviews? It depends. I don't need proof that analogue cables can and do sound different; I've recently binned a cheap headphone cable from china because it sounded pants. But some BS is easy to smell from a mile away and yes I don't agree with all their reviews.

How many of those experiments have involved listening over the past 100 years?

 

[MajorFubar]

dont see why one would need a production level of knowledge sit and hear change in their sound system at home, this is the only thing overlooked in your very well written and valid points

Because at least a bit of knowledge from an alternative perspective would allow people to make better judgement-calls when fraudsters are trying to sell them BS.

 

[steve_1979]

Nail -> head. I've often been accused of labouring the same point on and on, most recently in the 'other' cable thread when a newby asked about USB cables, but I do it because I believe the facts (where there are any) have the right to be given more exposure in a response than voodoo mumbo jumbo. Otherwise how are people who genuinely don't know the facts going to know who to believe? ...

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

If gullibility was a crime .... Or illogical argument a sin ...

 

[MajorFubar]

How many of those experiments have involved listening over the past 100 years?

You're right, I won't answer that one. Not only because clearly I can't even remotely give you a figure, but because it's so f---ing stupid I won't lower myself to it. However if you want something at least akin to a response, go see my response to Ellisdj at post #263..

 

[matt49]

How many of those experiments have involved listening over the past 100 years?

You're right, I won't answer that one. Not only because clearly I can't even remotely give you a figure, but because it's so f---ing stupid I won't lower myself to it.

Without resorting to obscenities or hand-waving, I think the Major's point is that some basic facts about electronics don't require demonstration by listening -- the theory and associated measurements are enough.

 

[MajorFubar]

I suggests he goes read my response I gave to ellisdj at post #263.

 

[ellisdj]

 dont see why one would need a production level of knowledge sit and hear change in their sound system at home, this is the only thing overlooked in your very well written and valid points

Because at least a bit of knowledge from an alternative perspective would allow people to make better judgement-calls when fraudsters are trying to sell them BS. 

I said right at the start I am not sure if it's genius or sales or possibly sales genius

If that is all it was I would 100% agree and be very sceptical. But I think he goes on to show / demonstrate what he is saying.

Salesman or not if he's got the goods then I say fair play.

The is the impression that video left me with. I looked past all the self promotion if anything he is selling himself.
I.e I am on a contract who wants me next

 

[MajorFubar]

if anything he is selling himself. I.e I am on a contract who wants me next

I'll give you that. If all his audience are really taking it all in then he needs to get a job selling sand to the arabs.

 

[ellisdj]

if anything he is selling himself. I.e I am on a contract who wants me next

I'll give you that. If all his audience are really taking it all in then he needs to get a job selling sand to the arabs.

Major watch the video again wcokd your colds gone but take it serious ie watch it on something better than a phone you can hear what he says

 

[pauln]

if anything he is selling himself. I.e I am on a contract who wants me next

I'll give you that. If all his audience are really taking it all in then he needs to get a job selling sand to the arabs.

Major watch the video again wcokd your colds gone but take it serious ie watch it on something better than a phone you can hear what he says

You keep telling us all to watch the video and take it seriously - but have you done your bit and read up on the physics of electricity and the biology of human hearing?

 

[Covenanter]

You don't need science if you have infallible hearing!

Chris

 

[Infiniteloop]

How many of those experiments have involved listening over the past 100 years?

You're right, I won't answer that one. Not only because clearly I can't even remotely give you a figure, but because it's so f---ing stupid I won't lower myself to it.

Without resorting to obscenities or hand-waving, I think the Major's point is that some basic facts about electronics don't require demonstration by listening -- the theory and associated measurements are enough.

That's fine, but the whole point of this thread is about listening.

Never have I said anything against scientific finding. All I've said is that I can hear a difference in the video. I was then faced with a barrage of narrative about 100 years of scientific findings, experiments and theory concerning the nature of electricity passing through a wire. All I asked was if any of that was specifically related to sound. - Is that unreasonable in any way?

Clearly, people can hear differences. Major himself said " I've recently binned a cheap headphone cable from china because it sounded pants". So perhaps, just perhaps, theory and associated measurements aren't enough? Surely what we hear is what matters?

 

[CnoEvil]

I raise you a Slow Loris

 

[pauln]

How many of those experiments have involved listening over the past 100 years?

You're right, I won't answer that one. Not only because clearly I can't even remotely give you a figure, but because it's so f---ing stupid I won't lower myself to it.

Without resorting to obscenities or hand-waving, I think the Major's point is that some basic facts about electronics don't require demonstration by listening -- the theory and associated measurements are enough.

That's fine, but the whole point of this thread is about listening.

Never have I said anything against scientific finding. All I've said is that I can hear a difference in the video. I was then faced with a barrage of narrative about 100 years of scientific findings, experiments and theory concerning the nature of electricity passing through a wire. All I asked was if any of that was specifically related to sound. - Is that unreasonable in any way?

Clearly, people can hear differences. Major himself said " I've recently binned a cheap headphone cable from china because it sounded pants". So perhaps, just perhaps, theory and associated measurements aren't enough? Surely what we hear is what matters?

What's being said is that if you are hearing a difference it is for some other reason than supposed directionality of cables. That may be due to one or more of many reasons as already detailed, one of which could be that the whole thing is a con designed to fleece the gullible consumer. Do you find that notion impossible to accept? Is hifi the one area of sales where everyone is honest and above board? Rip offs happen in every other walk of life, why should audio be the exception?

 

[Infiniteloop]

I raise you a Slow Loris

An interesting Nelson Pass quote Cno, in light of this thread.