Infiniteloop
Well-known member
spiny norman said:
Ah yes, Obviously.
They went to all that trouble with the fake moon landings in the 1960's so why not with this?*biggrin*
steve_1979
Well-known member
ellisdj said:
Was it installed by yourself or a professional?
You also mentioned that you built the distribution box yourself. Have you had this checked by a professional?
Infiniteloop
Well-known member
MajorFubar said:
Answer this one then:
How many of those experiments have involved listening over the past 100 years?
radiorog
Well-known member
MajorFubar said:
Not saying I'm a believer just as yet as still haven't had time to watch the video, I will. But to answer your question.... And I'm not very versed in electrical physics, but electricity was discovered by peoples imaginations and real world experiments, but not by looking deep into the atom and watching how electrons move. It was discovered by peoples imaginations and theories. So we now know how to create and transfer electricity. This doesn't in any way mean that we know everything here is to know about electricity and how it travels, and how it might effect the conductor. I can't understand how you can fail to see this, and yet you are the one calling people blithering idiots. I'm probably missing something.
Infiniteloop said:
Yup, so faking the moon landings was just a dress-rehearsal for when it really counts, with cable debates.
MajorFubar said:
Sorry major lots going on.
You and Robin are both trying to go semi off topic really.
Stating facts that prove one thing - it can't make a difference
But ignoring the fact the in the video you can hear it has.
So its no different.
I have tried to keep discussion on the video but individuals are trying to steer it away.
Most of these people have not watched the video - those that have watched it taking it seriously all heard a difference
Even cheeseboy who hates me so he could have been personal about it but I appreciate his honesty
steve_1979 said:
You might have a different idea to what I mean and your assuming I am not
So you can sleep tonight yes all our electrical works was inspected and tested to pass building regs
steve_1979
Well-known member
ellisdj said:
No problem. I'm not trying to head off topic seeing that the thread-title promised to prove something that cannot exist. I am absolutely sure no one here hates you. Just regarding my question, was your answer a yes or a no?
MajorFubar said:
Major you will be surprised, cheeseboy does hate me.
Your question is easy to answer no one is saying all theorem on electricity is wrong. Of course not.
How much of any of it is related to sq in it's description and discovery I doubt any. I doubt anyone have it a second thought
I don't believe a cable has a direction but maybe it's something to do with the material it's covered in and the relationship of both of those as to why.
All I know is at times I have heard differences at home and I am certainly not the only one to have done so
I found it enlightening that someone had bothered to highlight this in a demonstration - then even more so for it to be translated into a recording of such event.
If science say it won't be what I am supposed to do ignore my own expetience . I hear it but tell myself that's not real.
I hear it on that video also but I have to tell myself it's not real.
Is that what you all do
abacus
Well-known member
No.1 should be done by someone else in a different room
1. Extract the audio file of before and after, then get someone to copy each one 10 times, get them to make up a recording of all 20 items in a random order, finally play them back and see if you can identify which is which.
I can give you a 100% guarantee that you will not be able to, as there is no difference. (And yes I have listened to the video)
2. Electricity has never been imaginary, it is fully documented, which you would know if you read up on the science books like you did in school.
3. You have done all these modifications which you say make a difference, (And for the sake of it, lets say they have) have you improved your system so that it now sounds like the original master in the studio, or made it worse so it no longer sounds like the studio master. (If you have done this comparison what master tape and studio equipment did you use)
Bill
1. Extract the audio file of before and after, then get someone to copy each one 10 times, get them to make up a recording of all 20 items in a random order, finally play them back and see if you can identify which is which.
I can give you a 100% guarantee that you will not be able to, as there is no difference. (And yes I have listened to the video)
2. Electricity has never been imaginary, it is fully documented, which you would know if you read up on the science books like you did in school.
3. You have done all these modifications which you say make a difference, (And for the sake of it, lets say they have) have you improved your system so that it now sounds like the original master in the studio, or made it worse so it no longer sounds like the studio master. (If you have done this comparison what master tape and studio equipment did you use)
Bill
abacus said:
If I knew what the master sounded like I could answer that - I wonder how many people have ever heard the master of what they are listening to - then on what system in what room etc.
That would be lovely to be able to compare - but I am only really interested in how good it sounds to me and basing comparative judgement on the other systems I get to hear, or getting others over to listem. That is the best a man in my position can do. I always take up opportunity to hear other systems as much as possible for this exact reason and its good to hear an alternative as well
But I am personally not comptent with just simply plonking boxes down and listening, I like messing around with things looking at ways to make improvements - that is a big part of the fun to me - just how good can I get it to sound - to me of course
This links me to your point 1 - if I do that and I get things wrong and leave my system setup like that a jumble but I sit down and do not enjoy listening / watching it - what do I do
Leave it and think its science - or put it right and enjoy it - to me there is a clear answer there and I have said along I only care about how it sounds to me and I will do whatever regardless of what anyone tells me - if its better to me or
Whether its Shallow Hal imaginary or 100% science proven I couldnt care less. I know what I see and hear - what I like and I am very quick to spot what I dont
Since (Major), u and I are going off topic, maybe we should start a new thread for folk to answer our questions, ignored here because their evidence is dismissed repeatidly.
"Cables are non directional - here's the proof"
Or has that been done before?
Shame about Williams but well done Lewis. (Must look into Formula E)
PS (Another question not to be answered) - if one makes DIY cables and believe them to be directional then do you have to use directional wire or will normal wire do but you need to give it directionality? Confused.con
"Cables are non directional - here's the proof"
Or has that been done before?
Shame about Williams but well done Lewis. (Must look into Formula E)
PS (Another question not to be answered) - if one makes DIY cables and believe them to be directional then do you have to use directional wire or will normal wire do but you need to give it directionality? Confused.con
Hello gentlemans. Long time no see.
I saw this thread and wanted to react.
A youtoube Video is not a fact, it's not a proof, it's not an element of proof.
For an argument beeing legit, you need to have correct arguments and point of view. I saw many audiology method flaws in this youtube video. If you want to compare something and have a point, there are numerous points that are important, they are not even approached in this video.
So, sorry if it's harsh, but it's just a BS video more you can find thousands on the web.
A difference in volume can be absolutely possible, but this is already it. If a sound is louder, you will be able to perceive some details better and probably some room informations in the background of the recording, I just rembering that you can generate the same difference of volume with turning the volume knob of your amplifier. This is the same thing, and it's much cheaper.
I had the pleasure to work for EPFL Switzerland on specific project, as a critical listenener for SEAS Speaker prototype developement. And the highly competent staff members had no issues at all with those voodoo theories. It was for sure a good calbe quality used and the electric surrounding was really good, but nothing about cable directionnality. I remember you, the same institute makes Satellites, nuclear power plants, cybernethic exosquelettes and legs for crippled persons. If they don't see a need in that, there is no need in that.
(I'm not an English speaking person, hope you understood my point of view)*dance4*
I saw this thread and wanted to react.
A youtoube Video is not a fact, it's not a proof, it's not an element of proof.
For an argument beeing legit, you need to have correct arguments and point of view. I saw many audiology method flaws in this youtube video. If you want to compare something and have a point, there are numerous points that are important, they are not even approached in this video.
So, sorry if it's harsh, but it's just a BS video more you can find thousands on the web.
A difference in volume can be absolutely possible, but this is already it. If a sound is louder, you will be able to perceive some details better and probably some room informations in the background of the recording, I just rembering that you can generate the same difference of volume with turning the volume knob of your amplifier. This is the same thing, and it's much cheaper.
I had the pleasure to work for EPFL Switzerland on specific project, as a critical listenener for SEAS Speaker prototype developement. And the highly competent staff members had no issues at all with those voodoo theories. It was for sure a good calbe quality used and the electric surrounding was really good, but nothing about cable directionnality. I remember you, the same institute makes Satellites, nuclear power plants, cybernethic exosquelettes and legs for crippled persons. If they don't see a need in that, there is no need in that.
(I'm not an English speaking person, hope you understood my point of view)*dance4*
How does turning the volume up improve the sound?
I don't see the relevance of that comment sorry to be harsh back.
If you watch the video and I checked this best I can because I wondered if that was what had happened they appear idenitical.
Anyone else notice a volume change?
I don't see the relevance of that comment sorry to be harsh back.
If you watch the video and I checked this best I can because I wondered if that was what had happened they appear idenitical.
Anyone else notice a volume change?
matt49
Well-known member
ellisdj said:
It is well known that louder (up to a point) = subjectively better.
This is because of the way the human auditory system works. It's a pretty basic fact that anyone interested in hi-fi ought to know. I find it very hard to believe that you're unaware of this, given the length of time you've been posting on this forum.
matt49 said:
In that case just use cheapest possible hifi you can and turn it up to the max
Maybe to an inexperienced louder = better but when you have been about a bit such as the people you would expect at Munich would be looking for something a bit more than volume.
That's not being faseitus turning it up doesn't necessarily make it sound better.
ellisdj said:
Ellis, you're getting almost as adept as Thompson at displaying your lack of knowledge. Have a look on Google for "equal loudness contours" and learn a bit about how human hearing actually works. You will probably dispute the accepted science but that's nothing new.
Just to say as well that there is no way that the "disciples" will be converted. It would be easier to get a Jehaova's Witness to accept evolution; however this thread to me is about trying to prevent newcomers to HiFi getting suckered into this nonsense.
I understand if it's louder it may appear better - sorry maybe I didn't write what I meant - but that won't be the case for every situation - loud bad sound is still bad sound
I also don't
A. Think that is the case in the video
B. Think turning a system up louder necessarily makes it sound better if anything more likely to fatigue the listener - not likely in short demo though I admit.
As it stands we have had a few people suggest reasons for the differences in the videos.
I have taken them all on board - no difference, volume change, changes to the camera or mic or other trickery.
But watching it I just can't see it with any of them
I also wouldn't worry about a newcomer buying a niagra I have a feeling its a Munich for a reason - the price. It's going to be silly expensive if what he says true about all the design that's gone in
I also don't
A. Think that is the case in the video
B. Think turning a system up louder necessarily makes it sound better if anything more likely to fatigue the listener - not likely in short demo though I admit.
As it stands we have had a few people suggest reasons for the differences in the videos.
I have taken them all on board - no difference, volume change, changes to the camera or mic or other trickery.
But watching it I just can't see it with any of them
I also wouldn't worry about a newcomer buying a niagra I have a feeling its a Munich for a reason - the price. It's going to be silly expensive if what he says true about all the design that's gone in
Infiniteloop
Well-known member
MajorFubar said:
I have never said that the scientists have got it wrong. All I have said is that I can hear a difference when the cable gets reversed.
I have also asked how many of the experiments conducted over the last 100 years involved listening, and not surprisingly, I'm still waiting for an answer.
ellisdj said:
There is no suggestion that a loud boom box will sound better than a quiet hifi system, that's ludicrous.
The point is that when comparing two items that actually do sound the same, if the loudness is increased very slightly on one of the 'listens', humans will perceive that not as an increase in volume but as a 'better' or perhaps 'fuller, richer' sound. Of course a suitable measuring instrument would easily pick up the difference in volume but of course there are those that maintain there are no measuring instruments as sensitive as an audiophiles trained ear - that's just more nonsense though.
IME. A system that you like, will sound better as the volume is turned up (within sensible limits); wheras a system that you do not like, will sound worse.
A system doesn't usually change its fundamental character, as it's turned up....it just sounds ballsier and more dramatic/exciting.
A system doesn't usually change its fundamental character, as it's turned up....it just sounds ballsier and more dramatic/exciting.
pauln said:
Nail -> head. I've often been accused of labouring the same point on and on, most recently in the 'other' cable thread when a newby asked about USB cables, but I do it because I believe the facts (where there are any) have the right to be given more exposure in a response than voodoo mumbo jumbo. Otherwise how are people who genuinely don't know the facts going to know who to believe? Perhaps there's times I come across wrongly, e.g.: condescending or self-righteous; I don't ever really mean to do that, but if someone asks "What's the moon made out of" and the first reply says "green cheese", it's just not in my nature to come back with "no it's made of rock" and say no more about it, particularly if someone else comes along and says "No it's cheese" too. I know I've already said my piece, but two people have told him it's cheese when I know fundamentally that's wrong, and I admit it, at that point I struggle keeping my trap shut.
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