Cable Directionality - do you want proof

[RobinKidderminster]

I could not get thru the whole video. Surely the whole thing is a joke. Outrageous to suggest this is a proof of anything..It is neither a scientific lecture nor a good demonstration. An appalling sales presentation comparable to a timeshare sales pitch.

 

[CnoEvil]

It's good to talk. *dash1*

 

[The_Lhc]

Of course it proves nothing. I never said it did. All I said is that I can hear a difference. Maybe you could too - if you listened to it instead of arguing about something you haven't even heard.

This is an apparently real effect, which you are arguing against, even though you haven't witnessed it.

What are you afraid of?

- And why do you need to be so condescending? - Do you feel threatened or something?

It doesn't matter if you can hear a difference. It doesn't matter if I can hear a difference. If I did listen to it and heard a difference I would still say exactly the same thing:

It's meaningless! It's a YouTube video. It is in no way shape or form a piece of evidence which shows that cable directivity is a real pheonomen.

?

I wasn't joking when I said that someone would get a Nobel prize if they could actually prove (in a real peer reviewed, repeatable scientific experiment) that these cables are directional. Really this would mean re-writing the science books because directivity in cables goes against all of the current accepted scientific models of how electrical conductivity works.

Again, of course it's not evidence, but for whatever reason, the effect is there.

How about this for a reason? They added the "difference" in post-processing. Can I prove they did? No, can you prove they didn't? No. That's why a YouTube video is useless for this type of argument.

With so many people working in this field, you'd have thought someone would have proved it one way or the other.

The onus is on those claiming a difference to prove it, after all they're the ones expecting people to spend more money on their cables. They've never managed to prove it, which should tell you everything you need to know.

 

[MajorFubar]

 

[RobinKidderminster]

My 3 previous links provided much better testimate, if not necessarily solid scientific proof, that cable directionality is nonsense. I began to watch the video making notes of the nonsense talked. I gave up after a page. I would however love to meet the 2 staff, employed full time, to load a machine to "improve" the capacitors suitable for his device. They must be producing 100's of thousands of these amazing top end power conditioners. His "unique technology, never been done in history" will no doubt change the face of hi-fi as we know it since in 40 years the mains noise has "increased by 50000 times". And then all these cell towers "spraying noise" all over the place. "Power supplies are no good for computers or sound equipment" so I for one am going to throw away all my electronics until the National Grid improve their useless current.

I wait for the ''faithful" to justify any of this rubbish and explain why so many demonstrate clearly the nonsense of all this. And why in listening tests coathangers and bell wires in the speaker signal path show no degradation of sound yet a few centimeters of solid, but reversed wire, degrades sound to an extent that a low resolution YouTube clip clearly shows degredation. .

Nonsense. Snake-oil. Marketing. BS. vs Science. Common sense. Logic. Experience.

Good morning all - another bright day ahead.

 

[ellisdj]

a few centimeters of solid, but reversed wire, degrades sound to an extent that a low resolution YouTube clip clearly shows degredation. .

yes it does show it - thats why its interesting that even in a naff you tube video you can still hear a difference

Your so hell bent on scutinising the whole thing your missing the point - its a hifi demo not a dissitation.

He tells a story thats very much a story - which means nothing if he doesnt prove what he is saying and I think quite clearly he does for the several demos he does.

its not me in my house videoing myself - its a commercial company and a commercial event and a non related party who has made the video. Its not just me saying I hear it - its actually videod and audible on the video.

I am sure they wont rewrite the british encyclopedia based on this video its not about that - everyone is looking to take it too far - maybe the thread title is to blame - my fault it was just to garner attention

Maybe you dont have a problem with noise in your system, you may be lucky - I have tons on mine and the quality of my boxes should stop it all but they dont so by me working on things diy and using other companies products has given me much better sound at home.

 

[steve_1979]

It's good to talk. *dash1*

There's nothing so good as a nice friendly chat with internet strangers to lift the spirits eh?

 

[steve_1979]

 

[Covenanter]

Maybe you dont have a problem with noise in your system, you may be lucky - I have tons on mine and the quality of my boxes should stop it all but they dont so by me working on things diy and using other companies products has given me much better sound at home.

Out of interest what kind of "noise" do you have? You seem to have spent a small fortune on kit and it shouldn't be noisy in the first place and it shouldn't need you to add all sorts of gadgets.

Chris

 

[steve_1979]

... its not me in my house videoing myself - its a commercial company and a commercial event and a non related party who has made the video. Its not just me saying I hear it - its actually videod and audible on the video. ...

Which part of "this is not credible evidence" don't you understand?

 

[steve_1979]

So why a cable sounds different depending on which way the current is flowing 'has been proved, millions of times for over a century', has it?

The laws of phyiscs which describe how electrical conductivity works have been known for well over a century. These laws have been proved litrally millions of times by millions of people over those years. With the exception of a few audiophool nutters and foo cable companies* no one in over a century has ever discovered a cable which is directional.

* non of the audiophool nutters or foo cable companies have ever provided any actual real peer reviewed scientific proof to back up their claims that cables are directional.

 

[steve_1979]

... Your so hell bent on scutinising the whole thing your missing the point - its a hifi demo not a dissitation.

He tells a story thats very much a story ...

Exactly!

The story that he's telling is that known physics which describe how electrical conductivity work are incorrect. To contradict known physics (which are backed up by over a century of testing) in the way he does is a truely extraordinary claim to make, especially as he hasn't provided any proof of any kind to back up his ridiculous claim.

So yes it is just a story.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Of course it proves nothing. I never said it did. All I said is that I can hear a difference. Maybe you could too - if you listened to it instead of arguing about something you haven't even heard.

This is an apparently real effect, which you are arguing against, even though you haven't witnessed it.

What are you afraid of?

- And why do you need to be so condescending? - Do you feel threatened or something?

It doesn't matter if you can hear a difference. It doesn't matter if I can hear a difference. If I did listen to it and heard a difference I would still say exactly the same thing:

It's meaningless! It's a YouTube video. It is in no way shape or form a piece of evidence which shows that cable directivity is a real pheonomen.

I wasn't joking when I said that someone would get a Nobel prize if they could actually prove (in a real peer reviewed, repeatable scientific experiment) that these cables are directional. Really this would mean re-writing the science books because directivity in cables goes against all of the current accepted scientific models of how electrical conductivity works.

Again, of course it's not evidence, but for whatever reason, the effect is there.

How about this for a reason? They added the "difference" in post-processing. Can I prove they did? No, can you prove they didn't? No. That's why a YouTube video is useless for this type of argument.

With so many people working in this field, you'd have thought someone would have proved it one way or the other.

The onus is on those claiming a difference to prove it, after all they're the ones expecting people to spend more money on their cables. They've never managed to prove it, which should tell you everything you need to know.

"How about this for a reason? They added the "difference" in post-processing."

- And that would have made a difference to the people listening to the Demo at the time, - would it?

 

[Infiniteloop]

So why a cable sounds different depending on which way the current is flowing 'has been proved, millions of times for over a century', has it?

The laws of phyiscs which describe how electrical conductivity works have been known for well over a century. These laws have been proved litrally millions of times by millions of people over those years. With the exception of a few audiophool nutters and foo cable companies* no one in over a century has ever discovered a cable which is directional.

* non of the audiophool nutters or foo cable companies have ever provided any actual real peer reviewed scientific proof to back up their claims that cables are directional.

Yet the effect on sound is demonstrable.

- Funny that.

 

[spiny norman]

- And that would have made a difference to the people listening to the Demo at the time, - would it?

Ah, but then perhaps they added the reactions of the people at the demo in post-processing, too, along with the CGI John Dawson, and the Munich Show background (after they did the whole demo in a studio in front of greenscreen) ;-)

 

[RobinKidderminster]

a few centimeters of solid, but reversed wire, degrades sound to an extent that a low resolution YouTube clip clearly shows degredation. .

yes it does show it - thats why its interesting that even in a naff you tube video you can still hear a difference

One quote taken out of context and ALL my previous evidence, comments, questions remain without reference. I give up until at least one of my references are fairly critisised. When I see a fairy I will believe in fairies. Good luck - I'm gonna see Lewis win the F1.

 

[MajorFubar]

Here's an open question to those who feel the difference they hear is real and is caused only because he turned a cable round. Are you or are you not insinuating that scientists have got electrical theorems wrong for over 100 years? If you are, you're a blithering idiot. If you're not, how do you reconcile the two: that the proven electrical theorems are right, but there's still an audible difference caused by the direction of the cable?

 

[Craig M.]

I haven't watched the video and I don't intend to. However, if the difference is as easily discernable as some say, I can't understand why they are bothering with sighted tests - just do them double-blind and shut all the sceptics up in one fell swoop, they could clean up the foo market.

Can anyone think of a good reason why foo sellers never prove their products work through blind testing? It would surely save them a lot of grief and they wouldn't have to pay someone to come up with the fanciful bollocks they tend to use instead. I'm racking my brains and I just can't think of a good reason.

 

[steve_1979]

I'm gonna see Lewis win the F1.

Have you watched Formula E yet? I watched some highlights on YouTube the other day and thought it was more interesting than F1. Closer racing, more sliding about and stuff. I even quite liked the noise.

 

[ellisdj]

Maybe you dont have a problem with noise in your system, you may be lucky - I have tons on mine and the quality of my boxes should stop it all but they dont so by me working on things diy and using other companies products has given me much better sound at home.

Out of interest what kind of "noise" do you have? You seem to have spent a small fortune on kit and it shouldn't be noisy in the first place and it shouldn't need you to add all sorts of gadgets.

Chris

To clarify - I have a dedicated mains supply to my audio visual system thats for starters so the kit doesnt share the supply with the rest of the house. Even so my Isotek Titan is my main conditioner and technically powers my whole system nearly (1 sub, tv and virgin box exempt). However I built my own power distribution block that comes off its link out because none for sale had what I wanted.

This improves my sound even with a dedicated mains supply - I could list ways how but its typical hifi terms or just potential waffle. I have written about my opinions before and there is loads online about the titan.

Then I have made a lot of my own cables for my source which is a dedicated audio pc, I have several battery supplies and a main linear power supply where I have hand made dedicated cabling with specific screening - these I connect back to a single point then back the earth on my power distribution block which goes back to the titan - via the monster cable Neotech 3200 which has 4 x 1mm2 runs for the earth and 6 for the + and -, its a beast of cable. The titan is powered off the same cable and the main feeds from the breaker are 6mm2 and 4mm2 for the earth. So it all marries up.

The whole system is all ground back to the same place so it should not create any ground loops or impedance mismatches hopefully so all the screening and power supplies should earth all and any noise left on the mains

For example the Bryston has 5 torodial transformers that should be a lot of noise rejection. Other kit has smps power supplies which I wish they didnt

I have done a fair few other things as well to try and reduce any noise that is inside my boxes if you believe rfi and emi etc are pollutants to audio and airbourne

After watching that video a few weeks ago I tested somethings on my own system and it opened my eyes.

All the screening I had done inside the audio pc was fed back to the earth on the distribution block by a single cable to the earth on a standard BS plug - plugged into one of the sockets.

I removed the plug and the sound changed and got better for the most part - and I was seriously shocked. This didnt seem right it should have been the other way around but did seem in line with what our chap is saying in his video.

There are 3 products for sale that apparently reduce noise on your ground - one is $25k - the other is about $3k and last one is varied from £250 to about £5k.

I dont do things by halves - so I would have wanted the expensive one but couldnt afford it - so I have researched and built my own clean earth solution which I am now in the process of messing around with trying different things out.

You probably wont believe me - I do not care but I have been able to get the sound cleaner and cleaner which makes it more realistic, more vivid and easily more 3D and easier to listen to.

Again its made me realise that even though I had already gone to extreme lengths - dedicated mains supply - expensive power conditioner - there is still noise there to be removed.

I think the industry buzz thing will be earth products - I am actually very proud to have built my own.

 

[MajorFubar]

Any believer want to answer my straightforward question I posted it at the top of the page or are you going to continue to ignore it, because you can't answer it. I expect the latter.

 

[steve_1979]

To clarify - I have a dedicated mains supply to my audio visual system thats for starters so the kit doesnt share the supply with the rest of the house. Even so my Isotek Titan is my main conditioner and technically powers my whole system nearly (1 sub, tv and virgin box exempt). However I built my own power distribution block that comes off its link out because none for sale had what I wanted.

This improves my sound even with a dedicated mains supply - I could list ways how but its typical hifi terms or just potential waffle. I have written about my opinions before and there is loads online about the titan.

Then I have made a lot of my own cables for my source which is a dedicated audio pc, I have several battery supplies and a main linear power supply where I have hand made dedicated cabling with specific screening - these I connect back to a single point then back the earth on my power distribution block which goes back to the titan - via the monster cable Neotech 3200 which has 4 x 1mm2 runs for the earth and 6 for the + and -, its a beast of cable. The titan is powered off the same cable and the main feeds from the breaker are 6mm2 and 4mm2 for the earth. So it all marries up.

The whole system is all ground back to the same place so it should not create any ground loops or impedance mismatches hopefully so all the screening and power supplies should earth all and any noise left on the mains

For example the Bryston has 5 torodial transformers that should be a lot of noise rejection. Other kit has smps power supplies which I wish they didnt

I have done a fair few other things as well to try and reduce any noise that is inside my boxes if you believe rfi and emi etc are pollutants to audio and airbourne

After watching that video a few weeks ago I tested somethings on my own system and it opened my eyes.

All the screening I had done inside the audio pc was fed back to the earth on the distribution block by a single cable to the earth on a standard BS plug - plugged into one of the sockets.

I removed the plug and the sound changed and got better for the most part - and I was seriously shocked. This didnt seem right it should have been the other way around but did seem in line with what our chap is saying in his video.

There are 3 products for sale that apparently reduce noise on your ground - one is $25k - the other is about $3k and last one is varied from £250 to about £5k.

I dont do things by halves - so I would have wanted the expensive one but couldnt afford it - so I have researched and built my own clean earth solution which I am now in the process of messing around with trying different things out.

You probably wont believe me - I do not care but I have been able to get the sound cleaner and cleaner which makes it more realistic, more vivid and easily more 3D and easier to listen to.

Again its made me realise that even though I had already gone to extreme lengths - dedicated mains supply - expensive power conditioner - there is still noise there to be removed.

I think the industry buzz thing will be earth products - I am actually very proud to have built my own.

I plug my DM10's into a plug socket.

 

[ellisdj]

So do I but its a fancy one

 

[ellisdj]

Also to point out my room acoustic RT60 is average and pretty linear 0.2ms from about 200hz up 5khz not checked above that - different story for bass obviously.

This is probably a bit low for most people / the best sound - its how its ended up and I am very used to how tight the sound is I may look at it again when I have time / money and other projects are finished.

Reason I say it is because it helps making difference small or big much easier to hear - if you loom at Salford University they have one of the best listening rooms in the country apparently is its 0.27ms Reverb or RT60 according to the website. They say its the perfect room to test the small differrences in audio systems

 

[MajorFubar]

So that's a no then. As I thought.