Are You Seeing the Right Colours? An ISF Tale...

El Hefe

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So you enjoy a good 2 hours movie on your telly or projector screen and you tell yourself...'The image on that movie was soooo real! ....or the graphic was so life like'...

The question...what is real? Is that blue colour on Avatar creatures that you see is the blue colour that was intended to be displayed by the movie director?

Is that red and gold colour on Iron Man are the real colours that is suppose to be?

To top that, have you ever feel that certain night scenes are too bright that you dont feel that it was night time?

Or do you experience fatigue even by watching 2D Blu ray movies?

Read on if you are interested to know my recent experience in answering these questions...

I purchased my 55" Samsung LED TV Series 7 sometime in Nov 2009 when LED TV first hit the Malaysian shores. I remembered that time in SenQ in Miri, Sarawak where I was suppose to go there to buy a rice cooker and end up purchasing this TV instead after being so fascinated with the visual display of the TV. (And of course, I forgot to buy the rice cooker !!)...However, when the TV was delivered the next day and set up in my house, I was tad dissapointed to see the picture was not as sharp and vivid compared to the show room. It was just plain dull. Trying different settings did not help at all where I have to mess around with it for each movie I watch. I ended up putting the TV on Dynamic mode for all purpose of watching...may it be Bluray, DVD, Astro or games. Which initially it was OK as all the colours are boosted to the max...

It got worst recently that I get too fatigue and dizzy after each movie I watch....and mine is not even a 3D set up !

Will change to projector screen improve the experience? Will a bigger screen improve my movie experience?

So, while I was scouting around for a bigger TV or a better quality TV or projector screen, I was informed about TV/Projector calibration to a reference imaging standard.

What is ISF? It stands for Imaging Science Foundation. They are in the Display Standards Industry and since 1994 has been dedicated to improving the quality of electronic imaging. You can read more a bout it here: www.imagingscience.com

Curious to know about this calibration, I requested the local certified ISF technician to calibrate my TV. They came to my house last Sunday 31st March to perform this calibration on my 3.5 years old LED TV. This would be the first time a calibration is done on an 'old-ish' TV.

The whole calibration session took about 3 hours but that includes friendly chats and also listening to my 2 channel hifi :)

Anyhow, they came with 3 basic equipments:

1. Chroma Meter



He was kind enough to explain a few things about the imaging standards using laymen's term. A few points that I think very important are:

1. There are international standards for colours as reference. With this standard, a red colour object can only be called a red object if it meets the specification outlines in the standard.

2. One of the criteria of a colour standard is 'temperature'. Yes...you got that right....temperature in Kelvin. That is why you will find in the settings of most TVs now...the option of putting on a Cool or Warm display.

3. All colours depends on how good is the grayscale (black and white) colours are calibrated. Get this wrong and you will not see the standard set colours.

They went through several test patterns on the BD and with his computer, took snapshots from the Chroma Meter and the software processes the data. A pre-calibration status of my TV is displayed below. I chose to show the simplest information which was the RGB and Temperature distribution.





As you can see from these 2 plots, I have been 'enjoying' good BD imaging with blue as the dominant colour while Red and Green are either way off the scale or non existence. And I was also 'enjoying' a very warm image as the temperature across the spectrum was up to and even beyond 10000 deg Kelvin. The threshold for ISF standard is at about 6500 deg Kelvin.

To cut the story short, the following are the post-calibration plots. As you can, the RGB balance is there and the temperature profile is at average 6500 deg Kelvin across the spectrum.





So, who cares about plots right? The results post calibration....is very very outstanding. As when I about to give up hope on my TV, this calibration injected a new life to it. Colours are more natural, night scene provides the feeling to audience that it was actually shot at night, and dullness is no longer there. The imaging is maintains the vividness and liveliness pre calibration but does not give that glaring, fatiguing effect on the eyes. Playing Star Wars Episode 1, the scene in the desert, I can actually see the separation at the horizon between the desert and the sky in which pre calibration, this was not visible.

I am not a good photographer nor do I have a sophisticated camera, so its a bit hard to show the difference but this is one calibration that one should try if your TV experience is as dull as the movie Vanilla Sky. Even ASTRO B.yond benefitted from this calibration.

That night alone I watched Star Wars and Life of Pi back to back....and no sign of fatigue nor dullness.

Now I am thinking whether to take up this service again for my other TV downstairs. :)



DISCLAIMER: This is purely the results I get on my TV based on my not so perfect eyes. And for a better technical explanation, do visit the ISF page
 

GSB

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I'm hoping to get my GT30 plasma callibrated this year,great to read your thoughts,i bet its like having a new tv :grin:
 

ellisdj

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I have been posting for ages that calibrating your TV is like having a new TV all over again ans you can do it yourself which is extremely rewarding as well

That does look like a nice metre your calibrator is using

You would have been getting eye strain as the contrast was set too high - simple as that. High contrast ups the light output and hurst your eyes

Greyscale is a measurement all the shades of grey the tv produces from black to white - if you do not have the greyscale correctly calibrated (done with white balance) then the image will be blurred by comparison to how sharp and crisp it can be.

It doesnt affect colour at all - not directly anyway - changing the colour balances can affect the grey scale though.

Your RGB balance measures how accuartely the set is producing each primary colour at the each grey scale gradient level - the ideal is for them to all be the same at the corretct level

Colour is measured sepeartely - prmimary and secondary and calibrated seperately

If you want to improve things again on that screen - put a daylight 2600k bias light behind the tv - that helps your eyes focus on the tv alone and not the whole wall and the tv

if you want to see what a Kuro can calibrate to by a noddy such as me check this out

http://imageshack.us/a/img40/6195/calibrationresults1gamm.jpg
 

psurquhart

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GSB said:
I'm hoping to get my GT30 plasma callibrated this year,great to read your thoughts,i bet its like having a new tv :grin:

Hi GSB,

I have the GT30 too and have always wondered if it would be worth it. I am guessing yes but it's a huge outlay to get it done considering I only paid £629 new for my 42" GT30. Would love to know the results if you do get it done. Please bear me in mind if you do.

Am I right to think it will cost about £200 or can anyone do it cheaper ?
 

psurquhart

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The_Lhc said:
El Hefe said:
Thanks all for the comments. It is one of the of those scientific tweaks that actually works. Give it a shot if its available in UK.

it's typically between £250 to £400 in the UK.

Opps - didnt read down before I posted the above but I guess this answers my question ?

Surely, their must be some "Dodgy geezer type" out there who would be willing to do it for less ?

If you are out there please get in touch !
 

GSB

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psurquhart said:
GSB said:
I'm hoping to get my GT30 plasma callibrated this year,great to read your thoughts,i bet its like having a new tv :grin:

Hi GSB,

I have the GT30 too and have always wondered if it would be worth it. I am guessing yes but it's a huge outlay to get it done considering I only paid £629 new for my 42" GT30. Would love to know the results if you do get it done. Please bear me in mind if you do.

Am I right to think it will cost about £200 or can anyone do it cheaper ?
Have you seen this....?

...http://www.avforums.com/tv/section/tutorials.html

Worth a look;)

Also i bought the spears&munsill callibrating disk...it's realy usefull...and cheap... :grin:
 

cheeseboy

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psurquhart said:
Am I right to think it will cost about £200 or can anyone do it cheaper ?

see my post above - you can do it yourself a lot cheaper and have the equipment to loan to friends/relatives etc...
 

psurquhart

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GSB said:
psurquhart said:
GSB said:
I'm hoping to get my GT30 plasma callibrated this year,great to read your thoughts,i bet its like having a new tv :grin:

Hi GSB,

I have the GT30 too and have always wondered if it would be worth it. I am guessing yes but it's a huge outlay to get it done considering I only paid £629 new for my 42" GT30. Would love to know the results if you do get it done. Please bear me in mind if you do.

Am I right to think it will cost about £200 or can anyone do it cheaper ?
Have you seen this....?

...http://www.avforums.com/tv/section/tutorials.html

Worth a look;)

Also i bought the spears&munsill callibrating disk...it's realy usefull...and cheap... :grin:

Will have a look thanks and will google the disk.

Cheers

I used the thx test disk for my GT30 and I am not brilliant at using these tools. I appreciate that the thx disc is a good starting point but it still doesnt give me perfect results. My reds are definitely too red - which reminds me I must turn them down. But this sums up my lack of confidence in diy calibration.
 

psurquhart

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cheeseboy said:
psurquhart said:
Am I right to think it will cost about £200 or can anyone do it cheaper ?

see my post above - you can do it yourself a lot cheaper and have the equipment to loan to friends/relatives etc...

Yeah,

Thanks cheeseboy - I did follow your link. What one is the best cost effective version and what sort of results are you getting ? Also, is it as easy as the website proclaims ? As per post above, I am not overly confident in calibrating myself. I was also thinking, if I were to spend that sort of money on one, then it would be possibly better off just getting it done professionally ?

Would be interested to see if their are any others using this Spyder gadget and what they think ?

Perhaps the What Hi Fi team should do a feature on calibration ? I know you have before on the thx test discs (as I use the glasses and guides as a reference) but perhaps a more detailed feature could be done on how good all these different discs and gizmos are ? Or maybe thats just not your bag ?
 

cheeseboy

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psurquhart said:
Yeah,

Thanks cheeseboy - I did follow your link. What one is the best cost effective version and what sort of results are you getting ? Also, is it as easy as the website proclaims ? As per post above, I am not overly confident in calibrating myself. I was also thinking, if I were to spend that sort of money on one, then it would be possibly better off just getting it done professionally ?

Would be interested to see if their are any others using this Spyder gadget and what they think ?

Perhaps the What Hi Fi team should do a feature on calibration ? I know you have before on the thx test discs (as I use the glasses and guides as a reference) but perhaps a more detailed feature could be done on how good all these different discs and gizmos are ? Or maybe thats just not your bag ?

I've only used the spyder express to calibrate LCD monitors and Laptop displays for a few pro photographers, but they all raved about the difference it made for them.

Seems there is now one specific for HDTV/Projectors as well - http://spyder.datacolor.com/portfolio-view/spyder4tv-hd/

There's a really good review here which shows you the steps you would have to go through.

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/profiling/spyder4tv-hd.html

and another one here

http://www.digitaltrends.com/tv-accessories-reviews/spyder4tv-hd-review/

The thing is, once you have purchased it, you will save money on each re-calibration/extra device calibrated. If you are going to pay somebody 250 sheets to come and do it for you, what happens if somebody messes about with the settings, or you want to do another device?

Thing is, if you use it once, you can always sell it on and not lose that much as they still fetch a good re-sale price as well :)

Either way, it's worth a think...
 

D.J.KRIME

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Good to see that someone has spooted the importance of a propper calibration and been so amazed buy the results that it's like having a new TV but it is quite expensive.

It has already been stated in this thread that you can di it your self using a in-expensive meter like the Spyder and there is FREE software that will enable you to easily calibtate your TV. You can read my guide on how to do this HERE

Here was my Greyscale tracking using factory default

5434391118_22895450a1_b.jpg


As you can see there is a serious oversaturation in the RED but after calibration

5434455710_4f4aaf1189_b.jpg


The Greyscale is now tracking at almost the target D65 with minor errors showing in the red and blue under 20IRE but these errors are more likely showing due to the meter and there are no visable errors to the eye.
 

StanleyAV

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This is a wonderful thread to see up on the forum. All the TVs WhatHifi looks at get calibrated so they are
viewed/used to the maximum of their potential.

What you are mostly reading about in the magazine reviews are about optimised TV sets : WhatHifi can
correct me here if I'm wrong.

The best you can achieve out of the box with a preset is use THX/TrueCinema if present : even these need
contrast, brightness, colour etc tuned, preferrably with a test disc or off-air test card (you did save a copy
before we lost BBC HD? ;-) )

It is worth noting that calibration is NOT a ONE-OFF process!! :? Each new source you add will need its
own calibration for that input on your TV. ALSO the white balance for plasma TV changes with time, so the
greyscale etc will need doing afresh every 1000 hours or so.

Plasma TV phosphors take time to bed-in, so a first calibration needs to wait for at least 2-300 hours
dependant on make/model of TV.
 

psurquhart

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cheeseboy said:
psurquhart said:
Yeah,

Thanks cheeseboy - I did follow your link. What one is the best cost effective version and what sort of results are you getting ? Also, is it as easy as the website proclaims ? As per post above, I am not overly confident in calibrating myself. I was also thinking, if I were to spend that sort of money on one, then it would be possibly better off just getting it done professionally ?

Would be interested to see if their are any others using this Spyder gadget and what they think ?

Perhaps the What Hi Fi team should do a feature on calibration ? I know you have before on the thx test discs (as I use the glasses and guides as a reference) but perhaps a more detailed feature could be done on how good all these different discs and gizmos are ? Or maybe thats just not your bag ?

I've only used the spyder express to calibrate LCD monitors and Laptop displays for a few pro photographers, but they all raved about the difference it made for them.

Seems there is now one specific for HDTV/Projectors as well - http://spyder.datacolor.com/portfolio-view/spyder4tv-hd/

There's a really good review here which shows you the steps you would have to go through.

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/profiling/spyder4tv-hd.html

and another one here

http://www.digitaltrends.com/tv-accessories-reviews/spyder4tv-hd-review/

The thing is, once you have purchased it, you will save money on each re-calibration/extra device calibrated. If you are going to pay somebody 250 sheets to come and do it for you, what happens if somebody messes about with the settings, or you want to do another device?

Thing is, if you use it once, you can always sell it on and not lose that much as they still fetch a good re-sale price as well :)

Either way, it's worth a think...

Thanks cheeseboy,

I have read both reviews in detail now and I am seriously thinking about buying this. I appreciate it wont give me an ISF standard but as you say it is a lot cheaper and I can keep it for life and use it on all my tv's and gadgets.

This post has been brilliant - thanks to all.
 

El Hefe

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Go ahead and choose whats the best option for your...either DIY or with a certified ISF technician... I believe both ways will give you one form as satisfaction.... The message would be...TV needs callibration...and thanks to standards available, there is a reference point to say 'This is how a TV should display colours' as oppose to sound where its hard to say certain sound is a sper standard. :)
 

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