Cable Directionality - do you want proof

[ellisdj]

Hi well its not 100% solid proof but its the same sort of test I have done several times with a similar result - ie swop a wire round and see if sounded different

I posted a link to this video in the USB cable thread and not a single response. Maybe nobody watched it

If you watch this video - at about 37 minutes he does a interesting test which shows the effect of cable directionality.

I can clearly hear an audible difference - watched on a phone I doubt the difference will be so clear - watch it off something half decent Asus Xonar ST Souncard into Senheisser headphones - HD558 I think they are were about £120 its easily audible.

A volume / pitch type change is audible - but its not that its about what he describes as it getting out of the speakers.

For the cables dont make a difference brigade something to chew over - if that small amount makes a difference you can only imagine what else does

Its a great Video to watch with loads of interesting info as well

 

[ellisdj]

People dont like being wrong - so they write stupid things - as usual

 

[abacus]

Well I was in the electrical industry for years, and been listening to audio for years (Including recording and mastering my own), and I can give you a 100% guarantee that most of what that guy talks about is complete total rubbish. (I have seen and heard some con artists in my time, but he takes the ticket)

Unless you want to be totally ripped off, ignore it.

Bill

 

[The_Lhc]

Hi well its not 100% solid proof but its the same sort of test I have done several times with a similar result - ie swop a wire round and see if sounded different

I posted a link to this video in the USB cable thread and not a single response. Maybe nobody watched it

If you watch this video - at about 37 minutes he does a interesting test which shows the effect of cable directionality.

I can clearly hear an audible difference - watched on a phone I doubt the difference will be so clear - watch it off something half decent Asus Xonar ST Souncard into Senheisser headphones - HD558 I think they are were about £120 its easily audible.

A volume / pitch type change is audible - but its not that its about what he describes as it getting out of the speakers.

For the cables dont make a difference brigade something to chew over - if that small amount makes a difference you can only imagine what else does

Its a great Video to watch with loads of interesting info as well

So you're watching someone else do a test on YouTube and you think that's reliable proof?

Oh dear.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Well I was in the electrical industry  for years, and been listening to audio for years (Including recording and mastering my own), and I can give you a 100% guarantee that most of what that guy talks about is complete total rubbish. (I have seen and heard some con artists in my time, but he takes the ticket)

Unless you want to be totally ripped off, ignore it.

Bill

 

Can you expand and point out the rubbish?

This is a genuine request.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Can I spend 54mins watching a smug salesman trying to sell £1k connectors? Maybe later.

 

[ellisdj]

That video is a demonstration given at the Munich high end show this year by the looks of it

These types of demos are in my view what's great about a hifi show. Rather than the walk in and out room where it's hit and miss the come and see a planned demo is always far better.

I agree I was 50/50 is the guy for real or a really good salesman.

But the tests he does really caught my attention.

The wire directionality test he changes direction on only 3 inch on the ground of a power cable.
It's you tube it's a recording and it's a tiny change like that.
You can cue both tests up and listen to one then the other. There is a small audible change even on a recording on you tube. It's just highlighting a point.

For me the point is the demo, I hope Co. do more of these type demos in UK shows because they are great.

Fair play nordost do them but because its walk in and out its hit and miss

 

[cheeseboy]

Hi well its not 100% solid proof but its the same sort of test I have done several times with a similar result - ie swop a wire round and see if sounded different

I posted a link to this video in the USB cable thread and not a single response. Maybe nobody watched it

If you watch this video - at about 37 minutes he does a interesting test which shows the effect of cable directionality.

I can clearly hear an audible difference - watched on a phone I doubt the difference will be so clear - watch it off something half decent Asus Xonar ST Souncard into Senheisser headphones - HD558 I think they are were about £120 its easily audible.

A volume / pitch type change is audible - but its not that its about what he describes as it getting out of the speakers.

For the cables dont make a difference brigade something to chew over - if that small amount makes a difference you can only imagine what else does

Its a great Video to watch with loads of interesting info as well

ok, I did watch the entire video just to show some respect for your request. And yes, I did find it quite intersting in some parts, but it's largely just a sales pitch imho. And unfortunately no, there's no "proof" of anything. And I don't say that to be confrontational, it's just basic science in the fact that if you want to prove something, you have to set up a proper test, and this was not that. There's no control, there's no removal external influences, they do not involve comparison to a fixed, reliable standard etc. For example, the bit you are talking about, he spends so long talking about how there is a difference, he's just introduced a massive expectation bias. I'm not saying that is the reason why the change, I'm just saying that from the point of view of a test, that is not valid, unless the test is to test expectation bias. Hope that makes sense.

 

[ellisdj]

Of course it does, as I said its not 100% solid proof - but at the same time its interesting they have done it and I know it gets cable haters knickers in a twist. Sitting here you have the luxury people dont have there.

You can cue both up and listen as many times as you want - its not easy to hear a huge difference and to expect it from that small change is silly but I can hear something change - thats the hole point of it - if you can hear something with that small change. Blind tested it would be 50/50 but that doesnt mean its not there even if it cant prove 100% it is - eyes need to be open not persistently shut I feel

The other interesting demo is the super charged capacitor - thats an easy one to hear the difference.

 

[chebby]

I wish those people who are so quick to dismiss science and technology would go and live without it.

 

[matt49]

His claim that cables are directional rests on the skin effect. The problem is that the skin effect isn't relevant at audio frequencies. It's discussed in some detail here.

 

[steve_1979]

... Blind tested it would be 50/50 but that doesnt mean its not there even if it cant prove 100% it is - eyes need to be open not persistently shut I feel ...

Is that just a metaphor or do you literally think that you need to be 'blind' for a blind test?

BTW this is a genuine question even though it sounds a bit sarcastic when read.

 

[cheeseboy]

Of course it does, as I said its not 100% solid proof

unfortunately, due to some of the basic criteria I mentioned for what actually constitutes a test - it doesn't prove anything at all In order to actually prove something, one needs to test it properly. Otherwise there are far too many factors that could influence, change or distort things. This is not exclusive to cables, In fact this applies for whatever. This kind of testing process I am talking about is the reason why we have amplifiers, and computers and the reason why we can have this discussion.

One blinding example as a hypothetical - how does anybody what that piece of wire is that he uses? We only have his word to go on, nothing to reference it against, or anything like that. We know for a fact that sales people have lied in the past. How do we know that he is not lying? We don't so we can't rule out either option.

Another exmaple might be, how do we know that somebody did not do anything to the mic that was recording it, how do we know that something didn't happen in the compression process when being uploaded to youtube etc etc..

The same for the test, I'm not going to rule out that what he did made the difference he claims, but if he wants me to believe it as proof, I would need to see proper testing with as much of the possible mitigating factors ruled out. This would go for anything I might add, not just cables, and not just hifi.

but at the same time its interesting they have done it and I know it gets cable haters knickers in a twist. Sitting here you have the luxury people dont have there.

? I love cables, without them my system would not work. I hate sales people who try to sell things based on lies and deceipt and it's a minefield trying to work out which is which.

You can cue both up and listen as many times as you want - its not easy to hear a huge difference and to expect it from that small change is silly but I can hear something change - thats the hole point of it - if you can hear something with that small change.

Again, see my previous point about not 100% knowing if what he said was true about the wire. Yes, I heard a change, but it doesn't mean that I believe it as proof or that I believe he was being honest. There are way too many variables to draw any meaningful conclusion is all I'm saying.

Blind tested it would be 50/50 but that doesnt mean its not there even if it cant prove 100% it is

not necessarily. Just because it's blind test doesn't mean it's going to be 50/50. That's one of the things about blind testing, i can show where there aren't many differences, but it can also be the other way round, it can also show where there are differences. I'm sure if you did a blind test with bell wire and higher guage speaker cable, you wouldn't get a 50/50 result.

eyes need to be open not persistently shut I feel

I agree, but that works both ways least we not forget

And just re-iterate. I'm not saying in this case that what he did (I'm sorry, I can't call it a test, becuase by definition it wasn't) didn't make a difference. I'm just saying that there are too many mitigating factors to draw any kind of meaningful conclusion, other than in the demo, he did something with a wire that changed the sound, or the perception of the sound.

 

[scene]

I was going to give a long explanation, but I won't. The signal in a cable (speaker, non-optical interconnect) is sent as an AC - i.e. alternating current. In simplistic terms, this means the current flows in BOTH directions always. So if a cable is directional, it must, by definition, block half of the current and reduce signal quality.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Hi well its not 100% solid proof but its the same sort of test I have done several times with a similar result - ie swop a wire round and see if sounded different

I posted a link to this video in the USB cable thread and not a single response. Maybe nobody watched it

If you watch this video - at about 37 minutes he does a interesting test which shows the effect of cable directionality.

I can clearly hear an audible difference - watched on a phone I doubt the difference will be so clear - watch it off something half decent Asus Xonar ST Souncard into Senheisser headphones - HD558 I think they are were about £120 its easily audible.

A volume / pitch type change is audible - but its not that its about what he describes as it getting out of the speakers.

For the cables dont make a difference brigade something to chew over - if that small amount makes a difference you can only imagine what else does

Its a great Video to watch with loads of interesting info as well

ok, I did watch the entire video just to show some respect for your request.  And yes, I did find it quite intersting in some parts, but it's largely just a sales pitch imho.  And unfortunately no, there's no "proof" of anything.  And I don't say that to be confrontational, it's just basic science in the fact that if you want to prove something, you have to set up a proper test, and this was not that.  There's no control, there's no removal external influences, they do not involve comparison to a fixed, reliable standard etc.  For example, the bit you are talking about, he spends so long talking about how there is a difference, he's just introduced a massive expectation bias.  I'm not saying that is the reason why the change, I'm just saying that from the point of view of a test, that is not valid, unless the test is to test expectation bias.  Hope that makes sense.

Lol.....are you serious?

I watched the video, there was no smoke or mirrors the chap explains everything has best he could.

All he did was make his adjustment - a a simple process a more 'scientific' approach, what for?

The back to back using that country and western track was fascinating. Replayed that bit several times.

Distinct differences heard using that track.

Using a Sony XperiaT phone and Sennheiser HD205's.

You could even hear the surprise in the guys voice who filmed the piece.

That system was a good'un though.

But hats off to the cable guy they put their product on the line.

Next step would be to compare with standard wire.

 

[cheeseboy]

Lol.....are you serious?

I watched the video, there was no smoke or mirrors the chap explains everything has best he could.

All he did was make his adjustment - a a simple process a more 'scientific' approach, what for?

I've explained in detail why. If you'd like to address any of those points, feel free to. Perhaps even come up with some counterpoints.

 

[ellisdj]

It's not a test it's just a demo.

That same demo was probably done 10 + times over the 3 days of the show probably to the industry press as well as joe public.

I don't think they will be into trickery that's just silly

I like the fact they are saying this and trying to show why they say this.

You can hear it as well

 

[spiny norman]

If you watch this video - at about 37 minutes he does a interesting test which shows the effect of cable directionality.

Isn't that John Dawson of Arcam in the audience?

 

[cheeseboy]

It's not a test it's just a demo.

I appreciate that. However, your post clearly says "cable directionality - do you want proof". You also stated you had carried out a similar *test*. Perhaps a more susinct title might have been - "cable demo with an interersting part about cable direction."

You've been here long enough to know full well that the title of this thread was to bait, and yes, I took the bait, but only to point out there is no proof.

I don't think they will be into trickery that's just silly

unless you have 100% proof of this, we can't rule it out, just like I'm not ruling out that what he did did made a change.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I was going to give a long explanation, but I won't. The signal in a cable (speaker, non-optical interconnect) is sent as an AC  - i.e. alternating current. In simplistic terms, this means the current flows in BOTH directions always. So if a cable is directional, it must, by definition, block half of the current and reduce signal quality.

That ain't right.

An amps output is DC.

 

[steve_1979]

I was going to give a long explanation, but I won't. The signal in a cable (speaker, non-optical interconnect) is sent as an AC - i.e. alternating current. In simplistic terms, this means the current flows in BOTH directions always. So if a cable is directional, it must, by definition, block half of the current and reduce signal quality.

That ain't right.

An amps output is DC.

NOOOOOOOO!

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Lol.....are you serious?

I watched the video, there was no smoke or mirrors the chap explains everything has best he could.

All he did was make his adjustment - a a simple process a more 'scientific' approach, what for?

I've explained in detail why.  If you'd like to address any of those points, feel free to.  Perhaps even come up with some counterpoints.

You've explained nothing. What you did was try and concoct silly reasoning to dismiss the point being made.

A more simple test you couldn't ask for. If you want the why - then by all means set up your scientific tests.

The science is already done in this demo - what you get is the end product and the results, what they were trying to achieve.

You only need to listen and decide if they have achieved what they set out to achieve......that's it.

Listening to the remarks alone on the vid suggest the thing works.

 

[Deleted member 116933]

Hi well its not 100% solid proof but its the same sort of test I have done several times with a similar result - ie swop a wire round and see if sounded different

I posted a link to this video in the USB cable thread and not a single response. Maybe nobody watched it

www.qed.co.uk
Tel: +44 (0)1483 747474
Fax: +44 (0)1483 545600"

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I was going to give a long explanation, but I won't. The signal in a cable (speaker, non-optical interconnect) is sent as an AC  - i.e. alternating current. In simplistic terms, this means the current flows in BOTH directions always. So if a cable is directional, it must, by definition, block half of the current and reduce signal quality.

That ain't right.

An amps output is DC.

NOOOOOOOO!

Why would you have an A/C output on an amp?

The whole point of adding capacitors to its output stage is to deliver a stable electrical signal.

I don't have the time to double check this but a/c in d/c out on all electrical devices.

 

[radiorog]

Hi well its not 100% solid proof but its the same sort of test I have done several times with a similar result - ie swop a wire round and see if sounded different

I posted a link to this video in the USB cable thread and not a single response. Maybe nobody watched it

www.qed.co.ukTel: +44 (0)1483 747474Fax: +44 (0)1483 545600"

I knew it, writing from the amp to the speaker, phew!