Cable Directionality - do you want proof

[RobinKidderminster]

@cheesboy

The links are interesting.. Below there is a Muppett advert/video which is a link to the 3 website. Don't tell me its a a WHF advertising thing???

 

[cheeseboy]

@cheesboy

The links are interesting.. Below there is a Muppett advert/video which is a link to the 3 website. Don't tell me its a a WHF advertising thing???

ahhh ok, yes, I think it's a what hifi thing as I have adblock installed and I don't see that.

 

[Covenanter]

From native-bon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM

This is how videos should be made. Gareth - take note.

Yep brilliant!

Chris

 

[RobinKidderminster]

WONDERFUL. The jumpy poo ad bunkum now joined by in-post ad bunkum. Luv it.

Thanks cheesboy - ad has gone now and whilst it was on my tablet it wasn't on my phone. Will investigation android ad blocking

 

[RobinKidderminster]

UFO's is a neat parallel to these discussions. Believers rely on others 'evidence' or experience whilst sceptics try to find holes in this evidence. The believers are never convinced of logic or alternate explainations wholefoods the sceptics offer other explainations and look at scientific or logical explaination.

It is impossible to prove that something does NOT exist yet proof that it DOES exist, whilst possible in a factual system, is never acheivable in a belief system.

So UFO believers see UFOs in all others 'evidence', the sceptics offer rational alternate explaination.

Can anyone PROVE UFOs don't exist? Ghosts dont exist? Fairies dont exist? Directional cables dont exist? NO. All it takes is ONE piece of solid evidence. One UFO. One ghost. One fairy. Nah not one. So maybe these things don't exist.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

From native-bon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM

This is how videos should be made. Gareth - take note.

Yep brilliant!

Chris

That video was rubbish. You'd sit through that at a hifi show or in a friends home if you were testing cable direction for fun?

Considering it's a tone video too.....prrrrft.

You people try too hard...... :crazy:

 

[Thompsonuxb]

How many of those experiments have involved listening over the past 100 years?

You're right, I won't answer that one. Not only because clearly I can't even remotely give you a figure, but because it's so f---ing stupid I won't lower myself to it.

Without resorting to obscenities or hand-waving, I think the Major's point is that some basic facts about electronics don't require demonstration by listening -- the theory and associated measurements are enough.

 

Can you explain what this means?

Consider we listen to music as a whole and not in parts.

This includes the equipmemt too.

 

[matt49]

Without resorting to obscenities or hand-waving, I think the Major's point is that some basic facts about electronics don't require demonstration by listening -- the theory and associated measurements are enough.

Can you explain what this means?

Sure: it means that there are some basic facts about electronics (and n.b. I mean the science of electronics) that don't need to be proved by listening.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

From native-bon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM

This is how videos should be made. Gareth - take note.

Yep brilliant!

Chris

That video was rubbish. You'd sit through that at a hifi show or in a friends home if you were testing cable direction for fun?

Considering it's a tone video too.....prrrrft.

You people try too hard...... :crazy:

What's a tone video?

I would watch this video for 10mins and learn something. I would not sit for 40mins lectured to by a salesman. Our choice I guess but I fail to see how it is 'crazy'. What have I missed?

 

[RobinKidderminster]

I got a hose pipe connected to a water wheel and a pump. The pump feeds the wheel from one pipe and the water returns from the wheel down the other pipe. If I make the pipes directional by inserting a one-way valve and put arrows to show the direction of flow. The flow/arrows would need to go in a circle (pump-wheel and wheel-pump). If both pipes were arrow/flow in the same direction (pump-wheel and pump-wheel) there would be no flow.

Is this analogy suggesting that directional cables, of which I fully subscribe to, must be wired in a 'circular' manner and not all arrows (+ & -) from amp to speaker (or output to input)?

 

[Native_bon]

@ RobinK

I do not usually have a habit of derailing threads, but nothing new has been said in this thread for many pages. Nobody has changed their position and nothing has changed. Anything that may make one smle is a blessed relief and certainly better than the usual insults that are the norm in this type of thread.

BTW. Point taken......and no offence taken.

Cannot agree more.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

From native-bon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM

This is how videos should be made. Gareth - take note.

Yep brilliant!

Chris

That video was rubbish. You'd sit through that at a hifi show or in a friends home if you were testing cable direction for fun?

Considering it's a tone video too.....prrrrft.

You people try too hard...... :crazy:

What's a tone video?

I would watch this video for 10mins and learn something. I would not sit for 40mins lectured to by a salesman. Our choice I guess but I fail to see how it is 'crazy'. What have I missed?

The guys using a tone.

What's there to learn in the subject video?.

Its simply a demonstration - you'll ether hear a difference or you won't.

It's like a demonstration between two amps or two tv's or two cars with an explanation why one is better than the other.

Ultimately you decide if there are differences and if you'll pay for that difference.

We are end users, all the science is complete - all you have to do is decide.

In this case did you hear a difference?

Yes or no......why do you need proof?

Quibbling over it being real or not based on 'science' is...... well, crazy.

No one I know in the real world does that only you guys in cyberspace.

 

[matt49]

.

What's there to learn in the subject video?.

What's a "subject video"?

 

[drummerman]

What's really bugging me about this debate is that no-one, I repeat ... no-one, has mentioned eggs.

Why are these things so hard to peel?

There is money to be made.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

I guess for a while there has been little interest in the forum for me. Strangely I have found some interest in this one although we all recognise the usual entrenched stance on both sides. To me, the believers rely on their ears, unable to give any valid response to sceptics. Sceptics are just that and need proof before accepting anything. Maybe its a science/arts battle - age old and unwinnable. Still of interest however in highlighting issues and providing a nucleus for further thought.

Frustration for sceptics never getting an answer to any question. Frustrating for the believer because his senses tell him its true.

Getting back to directionality QED say essentially - if you believe it then do it - if not then ignore it.

Still waiting for any plumbers out there to help me with my pump/water-wheel solution and then I need the utility company to supply me with an electron tap, pump and wheel.

 

[cheeseboy]

What's really bugging me about this debate is that no-one, I repeat ... no-one, has mentioned eggs.

Why are these things so hard to peel?

There is money to be made.

try boiling them first 😛 🙂

 

[ellisdj]

This is no bs and a bit off topic but sort of relevant. I will likely get slated for this and it 100% proves nothing I admit

When I started properly getting into pc audio it was suggested that certain things inside a computer can make the sound worse - anything that pulls unecessary power etc etc - my office computer was laden with watercoling which includes a pump and several graphics cards etc

I wondered if the same would be true for ripping cd quality - I had already ripped a load of music from cd.

After I took all the watercooling out and excess fans etc I ripped the same songs and listened and I thought they sounded better for it - could easy be expectation bias I admit

So to save myself from signing up to nutty asylum I sent 2 exact same song files 1 before and one after removing it all labelled A and B - over to my cousin also an audiofool and told him nothing and just said what do you think - maybe I lead him a bit with a question does one sound better than the other and why? I cant remember it was the why that I was inrested in as thought would rule out a lucky guess in such a small sample

He gave me the answer - (the file ripped with no watercooling sounds better) B or whatever it was - because its cleaner and more vivid as a result - something like that he said. They are both indentical files ripped by the same computer, one cant be different than the other as per the science supporting info - it could have been a lucky guess or maybe he did hear a difference. These situations are just what keep me open minded to opportunites to squeeze better sound of my system

 

[cheeseboy]

This is no bs and a bit off topic but sort of relevant. I will likely get slated for this and it 100% proves nothing I admit.....

run them through audiodiffmaker and it will let you know if it's a difference in the file or not.

 

[ellisdj]

Cheesboy we have done this before - I know there would be no difference in that program and I did say that in my text

So it could well have been / very likely a lucky guess - but it was bloody lucky one; not just lucky if that makes sense to guess the exact same thing I thought it had done

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Cheesboy we have done this before - I know there would be no difference in that program and I did say that in my text

So it could well have been / very likely a lucky guess - but it was bloody lucky one; not just lucky if that makes sense to guess the exact same thing I thought it had done

Sorry if this sounds picky - but cheeseboy suggested a simple scientific test to prove conclusively your point. Your response was - you KNOW that they are the same. In which case - it was a simple 50/50 guess. Logically that is the beginning, middle & end of the issue.

I really don't want to be rude but having cake and eating it is a bridge too far and too many cooks spoil the eggs.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

.

What's there to learn in the subject video?.

What's a "subject video"?

Lol.....the video everyone's referring to in this thread.

 

[ellisdj]

Cheesboy we have done this before - I know there would be no difference in that program and I did say that in my text

So it could well have been / very likely a lucky guess - but it was bloody lucky one; not just lucky if that makes sense to guess the exact same thing I thought it had done

Sorry if this sounds picky - but cheeseboy suggested a simple scientific test to prove conclusively your point. Your response was - you KNOW that they are the same. In which case - it was a simple 50/50 guess. Logically that is the beginning, middle & end of the issue.

I really don't want to be rude but having cake and eating it is a bridge too far and too many cooks spoil the eggs.

to guess the right file yes that was 50/50 - but how do you quantify % chance to guess a description of something?

I admit there are only so many differences there could have possibly been in someones mind to describe the differences in the sound of a something

 

[cheeseboy]

Cheesboy we have done this before - I know there would be no difference in that program and I did say that in my text

but did you actually run it through the software? (bearing in mind you've spent the best part of this thread telling people to try it for themselves if you catch my drift 😉 🙂 )

So it could well have been / very likely a lucky guess - but it was bloody lucky one; not just lucky if that makes sense to guess the exact same thing I thought it had done

Unless you run it through the software to rule out if there were any software based differences or not, you're never actually going to know.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

<deep sigh before preparing lunch>

I would think it reasonable that a PC cooler may well affect the transfer although knowing that its digital/error corrected etc., I may be wrong. A bit of science would solve your dilemmma.

Lunch .....

 

[ellisdj]

Cheesboy we have done this before - I know there would be no difference in that program and I did say that in my text

but did you actually run it through the software? (bearing in mind you've spent the best part of this thread telling people to try it for themselves if you catch my drift 😉 🙂 )

Thats where I am hypocritical isnt - I get you know