steve_1979
Well-known member
insider9
Well-known member
Pedro2
Well-known member
I think it's about time that I listened to some active speakers. It's been one of those 'must get round to it' things that we all experience at different times in life and now I've just got to scratch the active itch!
Paulq probably pushed me over the edge recently by purchasing a second hand Linn active system that cost less than his passive speakers. Previously, we both shared the same Linn streamer/pre-amp as well as the amazing Nord 500 up power amp.
I believe, rightly or wrongly, that to get a better sound out of a passive system than the one I presently own is either going to be a thankless task or a hugely expensive one (or both). However, the thought of using the Linn Akurate streamer/pre straight into a pair of quality actives is just so appealing.
So here's the short list:
1) AVI DM5 or DM10
2) AE1a
3) ATC SCM19a
The DM5s are probably the long shot here although I could combine with a BK Sub that my daughter has stored in her loft. I expect the DM10s to sound very good from all of the reviews and comments, although the recent £500 price hike is a bit eye watering. The new AE1a will be very interesting as not many have heard it. It ticks many of my boxes, however, as it doesn't include a DAC (I don't need one) and has XLR connections (the Linn also uses balanced outputs). I can also control the volume easily using the Linn Akurate's pre-amp.
Finally, the ATCs are a dark horse entry. Had not really considered them at all until my better half wondered why an ATC active wasn't on the list. I'm very lucky in this respect; I have a wife who loves music and who takes a passing interest in HiFi, She also believes that money well spent on good music reproduction is money well spent; amazing! The active SCM19a are floorstanders (unlike the others on the list) and cost considerably more than the others. So they better sound good!
I haven't completely ruled out Linn active (or aktiv) kit but it would require another amp (with active cards) and unless bought second hand, would require a small lottery win. So for now, I'm going down the straight forward route.
Not sure how long this journey will last (probably a couple of months) but will keep you all posted.
Paulq probably pushed me over the edge recently by purchasing a second hand Linn active system that cost less than his passive speakers. Previously, we both shared the same Linn streamer/pre-amp as well as the amazing Nord 500 up power amp.
I believe, rightly or wrongly, that to get a better sound out of a passive system than the one I presently own is either going to be a thankless task or a hugely expensive one (or both). However, the thought of using the Linn Akurate streamer/pre straight into a pair of quality actives is just so appealing.
So here's the short list:
1) AVI DM5 or DM10
2) AE1a
3) ATC SCM19a
The DM5s are probably the long shot here although I could combine with a BK Sub that my daughter has stored in her loft. I expect the DM10s to sound very good from all of the reviews and comments, although the recent £500 price hike is a bit eye watering. The new AE1a will be very interesting as not many have heard it. It ticks many of my boxes, however, as it doesn't include a DAC (I don't need one) and has XLR connections (the Linn also uses balanced outputs). I can also control the volume easily using the Linn Akurate's pre-amp.
Finally, the ATCs are a dark horse entry. Had not really considered them at all until my better half wondered why an ATC active wasn't on the list. I'm very lucky in this respect; I have a wife who loves music and who takes a passing interest in HiFi, She also believes that money well spent on good music reproduction is money well spent; amazing! The active SCM19a are floorstanders (unlike the others on the list) and cost considerably more than the others. So they better sound good!
I haven't completely ruled out Linn active (or aktiv) kit but it would require another amp (with active cards) and unless bought second hand, would require a small lottery win. So for now, I'm going down the straight forward route.
Not sure how long this journey will last (probably a couple of months) but will keep you all posted.
so all I shall say is I'm sure you're in for an interesting time. The reasons you state for coming to the decision are much the same as mine. I had a big clear out of black boxes, Pioneer N-50 streamer, Roksan K2 and Roksan power amp. Out also went my fairly new PMCTwenty 23's, which I loved. I previosuly owned the GB1i's. Needless to say I don't regret it at all. The resulting quality to my ears was that good. I purchased them as quality speakers, not an all in one, one box solution. I'm still tinkering and adding a variety of smaller boxes.
I just think based on the amount of posts recently on this forum that are about going the active route rather than one particular brand that gets tempers over heated demonstrates times and opinions as to what makes good hifi is changing, perhaps industry wide, Maybe the Bristol show emphasised that. The punters will eventually follow suit I think... well some. ;-)
Good luck in your search, I for one will follow yourprogress with interest.
I just think based on the amount of posts recently on this forum that are about going the active route rather than one particular brand that gets tempers over heated demonstrates times and opinions as to what makes good hifi is changing, perhaps industry wide, Maybe the Bristol show emphasised that. The punters will eventually follow suit I think... well some. ;-)
Good luck in your search, I for one will follow yourprogress with interest.
Pedro2 said:
You sound like me a while ago. When i first got my amp i would never consider an active speaker in million years but slowly ive wished id got active from the off. And i agree that you will stuggle to get better sound with what you have unless you want to spend big bucks on some really nice speakers. Btw the passive 19s imo are better than 11s
What part of the uk do you live in?
The atc much more expensive than the dm10 and will compare very well.
In my opinion the atc build quality is top, built like a tank and will last long time.
Thats not to say the avi are not well built as they are. But when you consider that the avi and atc 19a (or 20pro asl) are very similar in spec and performance, £2000 is not that high and you dont need a preamp or dac. Having said all that i still choose the atc. Not based on sq alone but i prefer seperate pre amp and balanced connections.
shadders
Well-known member
Hi,
If you have balanced outputs on your existing equipment, then maybe try studio monitors, as they seem to be quite cheap compared to domestic hifi for the same specification.
Regards,
Shadders.
If you have balanced outputs on your existing equipment, then maybe try studio monitors, as they seem to be quite cheap compared to domestic hifi for the same specification.
Regards,
Shadders.
shadders said:
Hi shadders
Im not sure if you were talking to me or someone else but i have no balanced outputs.
shadders
Well-known member
Hi Andrew,Andrewjvt said:
I was responding to Pedro2, as he stated his Linn system had balanced outputs.
Regards,
Shadders.
Romulus
Well-known member
Pedro2 said:
What an interesting journey and I hope you will find the joy you are looking for in your active system. Will you report your impressions at least with your final choice for this interesting thread.
Electro
Well-known member
The new PMC MB3 and BB6 active monitors, way beyond my budget but I can dream. *i-m_so_happy*
https://pmc-speakers.com/products/professional/active/mb3
https://pmc-speakers.com/products/professional/active/bb6
https://pmc-speakers.com/products/professional/active/mb3
https://pmc-speakers.com/products/professional/active/bb6
muljao
Well-known member
Would this be a good set up (In anyones opinion for a room approx 5m x 5m)
Arcam Irdac ii preamp
Yamaha HS8 speakers
Just testing the waters- I also am keen on the M dac + and wonder would it need even higher end speakers to get the best out of this.
I assume the set up would be to have the speakers turned to full volume at all time sand control vol with the preamp? Would RCA to 6.3mm jack from unbalanced (arcam) into that balanced jack on the speaker be ok?
Arcam Irdac ii preamp
Yamaha HS8 speakers
Just testing the waters- I also am keen on the M dac + and wonder would it need even higher end speakers to get the best out of this.
I assume the set up would be to have the speakers turned to full volume at all time sand control vol with the preamp? Would RCA to 6.3mm jack from unbalanced (arcam) into that balanced jack on the speaker be ok?
nopiano
Well-known member
@pedro2, based on my audition at the recent Bristol show I'd definitely try to hear the Kef LS50 wireless too. They include DACs so aren't directly comparable with some others. In fact, most actives are not readily comparable to each other unless you've carefully studied their connectivity and mains needs, and can cater for them in your home.
shadders
Well-known member
Hi,Electro said:
Does anyone know what connectors are used to connect the power amplifier to the speakers ?.
Thanks and regards,
Shadders.
muljao
Well-known member
First of all, I am given no option at all to quote someone, hence making my replies more relevent to a particular point raised. Frustrating! Fed up with the lack of updates and maintenance on this forum, bordering on embarrassing now!
Anyway Muljao, you asked about the M Dac +, I have no personal experience of this uint but based on reviews I've read and comments from owners on this forum I suspect it will easily cope with an upgrade to high quality actives, within reason.
Regarding volume control. Others will set you straight but I never have my speakers set to full volume. I think it's simply askimg for trouble should someone twist that external pre-amp volume dial suddenly all the way up. Personally I set a reasonable volume level on the speakers, I make sure the source is set to full and then gently control via the pre-amp. That's how I do it. it;s probably totally wrong but I feel safer doing it in such a manner. I'm willing to learn and adapt to a better system if advised. My recent experience with the Yamaha WCX=50 going totally insane on the volume output has left it's mark!
I'm going to start a separate thread regard pre-amps and particularly those linked to active speakers as i don;t wish to hijack this post,
Edit: What about something like this if you're dipping your toes in...
http://www.trustedreviews.com/yamaha-nx-n500-review
I must admit the Yamaha MusicCast system is superb and currently I feel lost without it.
Anyway Muljao, you asked about the M Dac +, I have no personal experience of this uint but based on reviews I've read and comments from owners on this forum I suspect it will easily cope with an upgrade to high quality actives, within reason.
Regarding volume control. Others will set you straight but I never have my speakers set to full volume. I think it's simply askimg for trouble should someone twist that external pre-amp volume dial suddenly all the way up. Personally I set a reasonable volume level on the speakers, I make sure the source is set to full and then gently control via the pre-amp. That's how I do it. it;s probably totally wrong but I feel safer doing it in such a manner. I'm willing to learn and adapt to a better system if advised. My recent experience with the Yamaha WCX=50 going totally insane on the volume output has left it's mark!
I'm going to start a separate thread regard pre-amps and particularly those linked to active speakers as i don;t wish to hijack this post,
Edit: What about something like this if you're dipping your toes in...
http://www.trustedreviews.com/yamaha-nx-n500-review
I must admit the Yamaha MusicCast system is superb and currently I feel lost without it.
Electro
Well-known member
shadders said:
I don't know for sure but I would guess they use speakon connectors and heavy duty speaker cable.
All the processing, DSP, amplification etc is outside the speakers so it would be short cables conected directly to the drive units.
Scroll down to page 28 for a connection diagram.
https://pmc-speakers.com/sites/default/files/attachments/MB3%20%26%20BB6%20brochure-dec16-WEB.pdf
muljao said:
Hi muljao. As I wrote in another thread I bought a pair of used Adam F5s last week and was taken aback by their sound quality and price. Check their monitors, if these are the least expensive ones the others must be even better. Here in Lisbon you can get the A7xs for 469/unit, so they'll be in the same price range as the Yamahas. The Adam A7xs reviews are stellar, but I never heard them to be honest.
Mind you those Yamahas are nearfield monitors, so your head should form an equilateral triangle with the speakers. If they're 1m apart from each other you should sit 1m from them. Studio monitors also have less dispersion than hi-fi speakers so you'll have a narrower sweet spot where you can sit.
Also consider the speakers are powered so they have mains cables, which my not be ideal in your room due to TWF (The Wife Factor).
You can use a RCA to XLR cable but you won't have a fully balanced connection. Balanced XLRs are useful especially when using long runs of cables, so I reckon that won't matter in your system.
A very good DAC/preamp/streamer than came to mind is the CA CXN. It even has balanced XLR outputs. Maybe it's out of your budget.
My experience is very limited but I keep the volume on my F5s at 50% and then I just adjust the volume on my UnitiQute 2. I do it this way only because the F5s knobs are placed at the back of the monitors.
DocG
Well-known member
shadders said:
Looks like a Speakon connection (page 28 of the brochure).
EDIT: lost some time trying to paste an image of the back of the amp in here. So Electro beat me hands down in speed. *smile*
shadders
Well-known member
Hi,Electro said:
Thanks - i was not sure as the picture was the control amplifier ?.
There is only one connector - was not aware it was a speakon - so means that there are four separate amplifiers for the speakers - seems to be one for tweeter pair and one for mid range pair, and each woofer has their own amplifier.
The problem i can foresee is that someone will connect the LF power amplifier to the tweeter.
Also - the amplifiers are stated to be class D - so not sure why four separate amplifier enclosures are required - they are so efficient that they probably could be implemented in a single enclosure - but then, they are using 2.4kW amplifiers per woofer - which does seem rather powerful.
Regards,
Shadders.
when I decided to go active I was very interest in the Adam A7x's, as I recall they do as 8X as well but I think they would have been too much for my room. So then I went competely over to the dark side. The thing is there are so many good options and possibilites to explore.
I'm not sure if Mr Muljao intends to trade in his existing passive setup to help fund a potential active setup or not. Perhaps he's just mulling over his options as we all do. But as I recall Drummerman states regularly that a cheap active system isn't in any way truly reflective of what active speakers can do and so is hardly worth the effort.
Davedotco is the man to ask.
Anyway I'm glad that you are throughly enjoying the sound of your purchase.
I'm not sure if Mr Muljao intends to trade in his existing passive setup to help fund a potential active setup or not. Perhaps he's just mulling over his options as we all do. But as I recall Drummerman states regularly that a cheap active system isn't in any way truly reflective of what active speakers can do and so is hardly worth the effort.
Davedotco is the man to ask.
Anyway I'm glad that you are throughly enjoying the sound of your purchase.
muljao
Well-known member
Thanks Pedro/luckylion100.
At the moment if there will be a changeover it is only at the planning stage. I am quite happy with my set up but as us all would like to upgrade at some stage. I like the idea of a smaller footprint and possibly an active set up. If I do I will try to not go on the "to cheap" route. I have very good budget equipment that if I upgrade I want it to be worth the effort
The Adam A7x were one of the first speakers I looked at, but what I am getting from this thread is Monitors may not be the way to go as they have a very narrow listening area- am I picking this up correctly.
As I said, I am only looking at the moment but will keep an eye on this thread and any threads involving preamp/active set ups, Thanks again
At the moment if there will be a changeover it is only at the planning stage. I am quite happy with my set up but as us all would like to upgrade at some stage. I like the idea of a smaller footprint and possibly an active set up. If I do I will try to not go on the "to cheap" route. I have very good budget equipment that if I upgrade I want it to be worth the effort
The Adam A7x were one of the first speakers I looked at, but what I am getting from this thread is Monitors may not be the way to go as they have a very narrow listening area- am I picking this up correctly.
As I said, I am only looking at the moment but will keep an eye on this thread and any threads involving preamp/active set ups, Thanks again
@luckylion100: I deduced muljao was still searching for alternatives, so I decided to give my two cents. Now, I'm very curious about the dark side you're talking about. I think I'll do a bit of research. 
There is, as always, a lot of nonsense written about using 'studio' speakers for 'hi-fi'.
At the sort of prices we are usually talking about, up to about £1k pair, it is very much like buying regular hi-fi in that it is much more important that the compromises being made 'suit' your particular requirements. Simply put, you need to audition to see whether you like how they sound and whether they suit your room/setup, just like regular hi-fi. Integrated active speakers such as these can offer fantastic value for money but that is no guarantee that you will like the sound.
A couple of things to consider, many studio speakers in this price range are designated as 'near field monitors', this may sound technical, but all this really means in practice is that they are not powerful enough to be used at a distance, ie they do not go loud enough. In fact they work very well sited clear of the walls and many models, including those mentioned, have bass shelving controls for controlling the bass if required. Dispersion is mostly a function of driver size, so will be much the same as a hi-fi speaker using similarly sized drive units.
A big advantage of these speakers is their lack of bass 'bloat', the excessive bass 'warmth' that seems to be considered normal in most similarly priced 'hi-fi' speakers, it may take some getting used to. On the other hand studio speakers do tend to have more 'slam' in the bass and mid bass regions, again something I rather like as it is often better controlled than in hi-fi speakers.
Which finally brings me on to the Yamaha HS8. These are fairly big speakers with 8 inch bass drivers, remarkable material value for less than £500 pair but, to my mind, they lack a little control. Great speakers for loud music in a decent sized room, but in a more normal sized room the bass can be a little unruly.
Given the OP's budget, I would use HS7s at £340 pair instead and go for the WXC50 to drive them.
At the sort of prices we are usually talking about, up to about £1k pair, it is very much like buying regular hi-fi in that it is much more important that the compromises being made 'suit' your particular requirements. Simply put, you need to audition to see whether you like how they sound and whether they suit your room/setup, just like regular hi-fi. Integrated active speakers such as these can offer fantastic value for money but that is no guarantee that you will like the sound.
A couple of things to consider, many studio speakers in this price range are designated as 'near field monitors', this may sound technical, but all this really means in practice is that they are not powerful enough to be used at a distance, ie they do not go loud enough. In fact they work very well sited clear of the walls and many models, including those mentioned, have bass shelving controls for controlling the bass if required. Dispersion is mostly a function of driver size, so will be much the same as a hi-fi speaker using similarly sized drive units.
A big advantage of these speakers is their lack of bass 'bloat', the excessive bass 'warmth' that seems to be considered normal in most similarly priced 'hi-fi' speakers, it may take some getting used to. On the other hand studio speakers do tend to have more 'slam' in the bass and mid bass regions, again something I rather like as it is often better controlled than in hi-fi speakers.
Which finally brings me on to the Yamaha HS8. These are fairly big speakers with 8 inch bass drivers, remarkable material value for less than £500 pair but, to my mind, they lack a little control. Great speakers for loud music in a decent sized room, but in a more normal sized room the bass can be a little unruly.
Given the OP's budget, I would use HS7s at £340 pair instead and go for the WXC50 to drive them.
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