Active hifi speakers or active studio monitors?

[john dolan]

If you want facts and numbers and detailed description of how the volume works on the M-dac join PFM and ask in the M-dac thread where Mr Westlake the designer can tell you all you need.

Link him this thread and ask away how and why he is designing his own power amp to self adjust its input sensitivity so that the M-dac when run direct into it will always be at optimal volume.

 

[John Duncan]

Have you got a M-dac and passion and tried for yourself.

JW the designer of the M-dac understands and agrees with me and is building his new power amp to adjust its sensitivity as the volume on the m-dac is turned up and down so that the M-dac is always running full resolution.

I can hear the difference so can JW.

If you read the M-dac thread over on PFM JW helps and updates M-dacs he also makes or tells them how to make inline attenuators so guys can use higher volume settings on the M-dac because it sounds better that way.

The sound going through my passive only passes through 2 resistors same as using attenuators.

You make it sound like the retail product isn't properly finished.

Unlike the ADM 9.0 9.1 9.1T 9.1RS 9.1RSS, obviously.

 

[john dolan]

Yes the original ADM were perfect in every way and as good as good gets and if anyone said they are bass light well they dont know what real bass sounds like because the small ADM produces perfect bass and cant be bettered even by large floorstanders.

The then perfect ADM got even more perfect with every new version and the latest also have warmer fuller bass than the original that was said to be perfect.

The perfect bass thats better than floorstanders is then bettered by the ADM40 floorstanders but thats only because AVI are the only company in the world that can make floorstanders with perfect bass.

 

[Overdose]

Have you got a M-dac and passion and tried for yourself.

JW the designer of the M-dac understands and agrees with me and is building his new power amp to adjust its sensitivity as the volume on the m-dac is turned up and down so that the M-dac is always running full resolution.

I can hear the difference so can JW.

If you read the M-dac thread over on PFM JW helps and updates M-dacs he also makes or tells them how to make inline attenuators so guys can use higher volume settings on the M-dac because it sounds better that way.

The sound going through my passive only passes through 2 resistors same as using attenuators.

You make it sound like the retail product isn't properly finished.

Unlike the ADM 9.0 9.1 9.1T 9.1RS 9.1RSS, obviously.

There is a big difference in selling a newer and improved product when advances in technology and design become available rather than suggest that owners tweak with some form of DIY mod. If the product is genuinely not as good as with the modification, shouldn't the retail product then be updated to include the improvements?

Continuing to sell a sub par product and not include the upgrade doesn't seem very forward thinking. In addition, if the designer is aware of a problem and believes that the units digital volume attenuation is defficient in some way, even just the principle of digital attenuation, then why wasn't the unit fitted with an analogue volume control, such as the previously mentioned 'Passion' preamp?

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Interesting. So the original ADM9s were below par? Great to see you guys admitting that, takes guts.

 

[John Duncan]

Have you got a M-dac and passion and tried for yourself.

JW the designer of the M-dac understands and agrees with me and is building his new power amp to adjust its sensitivity as the volume on the m-dac is turned up and down so that the M-dac is always running full resolution.

I can hear the difference so can JW.

If you read the M-dac thread over on PFM JW helps and updates M-dacs he also makes or tells them how to make inline attenuators so guys can use higher volume settings on the M-dac because it sounds better that way.

The sound going through my passive only passes through 2 resistors same as using attenuators.

You make it sound like the retail product isn't properly finished.

Unlike the ADM 9.0 9.1 9.1T 9.1RS 9.1RSS, obviously.

There is a big difference in selling a newer and improved product when advances in technology and design become available rather than suggest that owners tweak with some form of DIY mod. If the product is genuinely not as good as with the modification, shouldn't the retail product then be updated to include the improvements?

Continuing to sell a sub par product and not include the upgrade doesn't seem very forward thinking. In addition, if the designer is aware of a problem and believes that the units digital volume attenuation is defficient in some way, even just the principle of digital attenuation, then why wasn't the unit fitted with an analogue volume control, such as the previously mentioned 'Passion' preamp?

 

[John Duncan]

There is a big difference in selling a newer and improved product when advances in technology and design become available rather than suggest that owners tweak with some form of DIY mod. If the product is genuinely not as good as with the modification, shouldn't the retail product then be updated to include the improvements?
Continuing to sell a sub par product and not include the upgrade doesn't seem very forward thinking. In addition, if the designer is aware of a problem and believes that the units digital volume attenuation is defficient in some way, even just the principle of digital attenuation, then why wasn't the unit fitted with an analogue volume control, such as the previously mentioned 'Passion' preamp?

What does the 'T' stand for in your speakers, and are owners encouraged to do that upgrade themselves?  What was involved in that particular upgrade again - was that an advance in technology and design, or was it swapping the wires to the tweeter?  Has the manufacturer ever sold new drivers to people to fit themselves, even though the crossover in their particular model was not designed for those drivers? Enlighten me. 

The M-Dac's a sub-par product is it?  I thought all DACs sounded the same.

 

[Overdose]

What does the 'T' stand for in your speakers, and are owners encouraged to do that upgrade themselves? What was involved in that particular upgrade again - was that an advance in technology and design, or was it swapping the wires to the tweeter? Has the manufacturer ever sold new drivers to people to fit themselves, even though the crossover in their particular model was not designed for those drivers? Enlighten me. The M-Dac's a sub-par product is it? I thought all DACs sounded the same.

Firstly, ADM speakers have undergone various upgrades in the past and at every point that a justifiable upgrade has been made, a new model is released to differentiate the progression. Whether the upgrades are possible as a retrofit is another matter entirely. The M-DAC doesn't appear to have ever changed, inspite of this alleged shortcoming.

I'm not the one stating the M-DAC is sub par, only what sub par means to me. According to the earlier poster, himself and the designer believe that the unit needs additional attenuation to make it sound better.

DACs do in general, seem to sound the same to me, audible transparency and all that.

 

[John Duncan]

What does the 'T' stand for in your speakers, and are owners encouraged to do that upgrade themselves? What was involved in that particular upgrade again - was that an advance in technology and design, or was it swapping the wires to the tweeter? Has the manufacturer ever sold new drivers to people to fit themselves, even though the crossover in their particular model was not designed for those drivers? Enlighten me. The M-Dac's a sub-par product is it? I thought all DACs sounded the same.

Firstly, ADM speakers have undergone various upgrades in the past and at every point that a justifiable upgrade has been made, a new model is released to differentiate the progression. Whether the upgrades are possible as a retrofit is another matter entirely.

How many of my questions did this answer?

 

[Overdose]

Interesting. So the original ADM9s were below par? Great to see you guys admitting that, takes guts.

Nah. Facing The Lions, that takes guts.

 

[richardw42]

Have you got a M-dac and passion and tried for yourself.

JW the designer of the M-dac understands and agrees with me and is building his new power amp to adjust its sensitivity as the volume on the m-dac is turned up and down so that the M-dac is always running full resolution.

I can hear the difference so can JW.

If you read the M-dac thread over on PFM JW helps and updates M-dacs he also makes or tells them how to make inline attenuators so guys can use higher volume settings on the M-dac because it sounds better that way.

The sound going through my passive only passes through 2 resistors same as using attenuators.

You make it sound like the retail product isn't properly finished.

Unlike the ADM 9.0 9.1 9.1T 9.1RS 9.1RSS, obviously.

great bit of moderation there. JD

 

[john dolan]

There is nothing wrong with the M-dac id say its the best dac out there sub £1000.

The way the digital volume works in the m-dac is how digital volumes work.

How many other dacs in the same price group as the M-dac offer as many features nevermind match it on sound.

Does the dac in those ADM have 2 coax 2 toslink 1 digital usb input rca and balanced out and headphones socket.

As i said the M-dac is the one to have until over £1000 its a great product.

JW is concidered to be one of the best designers in the world he had designed some of the finest dacs ever made.

Whats that used in the ADM again a evaluation boad with a psu tacked on lol.

 

[john dolan]

AVI fanboys that think the ADM have the best dac in the world and ADM have the best preamp in the world and ADM are the best speakers in the world should book a demo of a M-dac driving Event opals.

Do you really believe what Ash tells you he is just a salesman at the end of the day thats what salesmen do they BS.

When he worked for ATC every called it Ash talks C---

 

[John Duncan]

Have you got a M-dac and passion and tried for yourself.

JW the designer of the M-dac understands and agrees with me and is building his new power amp to adjust its sensitivity as the volume on the m-dac is turned up and down so that the M-dac is always running full resolution.

I can hear the difference so can JW.

If you read the M-dac thread over on PFM JW helps and updates M-dacs he also makes or tells them how to make inline attenuators so guys can use higher volume settings on the M-dac because it sounds better that way.

The sound going through my passive only passes through 2 resistors same as using attenuators.

You make it sound like the retail product isn't properly finished.

Unlike the ADM 9.0 9.1 9.1T 9.1RS 9.1RSS, obviously.

great bit of moderation there. JD

Thanks. I've always thought my style of moderation to be preferable to moderators (mistakenly) naming individuals as being posters on this forum, and then calling them a psychopath. Its nice you feel the same way.

 

[John Duncan]

Although to be fair I didn't actually moderate anything...

 

[matthewpiano]

If we are banding the old 'fanboy' term around again, it seems we might have a John Westlake fanboy as well.

Once again, things are descending into a mess. It would be nice if we could get back to friendly discussion instead of trying to slaughter each other when we don't agree.

 

[john dolan]

Wheres the fun it that.

AVI fanboys spend alday slaughtering other products and attacking other forum members yet get all butt hurt if anyone says anything against AVI so [EDITED BY MODS].

 

[Overdose]

There is nothing wrong with the M-dac id say its the best dac out there sub £1000.

...and yet you feel that it needs another preamp to work properly in your system.

I'm not knocking your choice of equipment, you've effectively already done that, but I do wonder why you didn't just get something that works first time around.

 

[john dolan]

The M-dac is digital only preamp i have 2 analogue sources aswell as 3 digital ones that is why i use the AS Passion.

 

[john dolan]

Wheres the fun it that.

AVI fanboys spend alday slaughtering other products and attacking other forum members yet get all butt hurt if anyone says anything against AVI so [EDITED BY MODS].

Sorry about that JD

 

[john dolan]

There is nothing wrong with the M-dac id say its the best dac out there sub £1000.

...and yet you feel that it needs another preamp to work properly in your system.

I'm not knocking your choice of equipment, you've effectively already done that, but I do wonder why you didn't just get something that works first time around.

If you had a turntable would you not of bought ADM because they dont have a internal phono stage.

The m-dac works just fine as a digital preamp as i said try one hooked up to Event Opals you will find it sounds better than ADM.

With the m-dac you have the option to use the internal preamp or dissable it and use the m-dac through a preamp of your choice this is how i use mine.

 

[john dolan]

I know im coming over as a negative whiney old git but just to clarify i am a negative whiney old git.

 

[richardw42]

It it me, or is John arguing with himself.

I think everybody recognise the MDac as a good product, and have only commented on your posts. I may have missed something its getting quite surreal.

When one rabid anti AVI poster leaves the forum, do they nominate a successor ?

 

[davedotco]

What fun!

I wander of for a couple of beers and a bit of supper and it all kicks off, hugely amusing.

In my experience ADMs are an excellent, one box (well two actually) solution for someone with a simple setup who wants a fuss free system, but what that has to do with JDs system passes me by.

What I would be interested in is if anyone else has experimented with the digital volume on the M-dac or knows something about how it works.

The suggestion that it is audible, given that the processor is running at 32 bit resolution, strikes me as odd, very simple calculations show that it can not have an effect on the sound quality by the reduction in bit depth alone, so if the differences are real and can be heard, them something else is going on.

 

[Overdose]

What fun!

I wander of for a couple of beers and a bit of supper and it all kicks off, hugely amusing.

In my experience ADMs are an excellent, one box (well two actually) solution for someone with a simple setup who wants a fuss free system, but what that has to do with JDs system passes me by.

What I would be interested in is if anyone else has experimented with the digital volume on the M-dac or knows something about how it works.

The suggestion that it is audible, given that the processor is running at 32 bit resolution, strikes me as odd, very simple calculations show that it can not have an effect on the sound quality by the reduction in bit depth alone, so if the differences are real and can be heard, them something else is going on.

I'm sure the person that brought them up could explain.