The active speakers club

[davedotco]

Hi guys,

I may be joinging the club. I was originaly planning on buying something like the b&W cm8/9, and investing around £1000 on a nice amp.

My primary listening plesure is folky stuff on vinyl and rocky stuff on CD.

But recently iv been eyeing the Dynaudio Xeo 5s - they are within budget (just) and i like the idea of having a built in dac and not the worry of an amp. It all seems like a nice simple (though pretty expensive) package.

Can anyone thing of any particular reason or benifits I should or shouldnt get these over a more traditional package?

cheers!

Very nice package, uses proprietory wireless technology to overcome the latency issues I mentioned above, and has just enough funtionality for your use.

It is a good system technically, the hi-res limitations should not bother you so it all depends on whether you like the Dynaudio 'sound'. If you have heard it and like it go for it, if your room is on the small side, the Xeo3s come into play and will save you some money.

have heard the smaller Excite 16 model (a passive Xeo3, more or less), and found it rather to my taste.

 

[John Duncan]

I'm not sure what you mean by latency issues, davedotco?

 

[davedotco]

For those actually interested in the future of active speakers, the point is that one box solutions are becoming common because of the difficulty in keeping separate (stereo) speakers in sync without some kind of connecting cable between them.

The unpredictability of timing (latency) that can occur over separate Airplay pathways and through separate dacs is a real issue and needs to be resolved before we can move away from one box solutions to proper stereo. As far as I can see there appears to be no way of implementing this in Airplay.

It is a different ball game (size- and pricewise), but Avantgarde may have a solution with their Zero 1 speakers, referred to earlier in this thread.

Master and slave connections between ZERO 1 loudspeakers are wireless—eliminating the need for cables. Although this simplifies setup considerably, it is important that the wireless connection does not deteriorate the sound in any way. The ZERO 1 provides tonal perfection by transmitting the volume over a dedicated wireless channel, applying it only once it has arrived at the slave. The data transfer rate is 44.1 kHz at 16 bits and is bit-perfect. Another measure taken to achieve this is to delay the master by less than 2 microseconds in order to make up for the time needed to process the radio link. This ensures that the master and slave's musical output is absolutely synchronous.

I didn't hear the result for myself yet (they are due in the shops "in Q3 of Q4 of 2013"), but it looks promising. The radio link is limited to RedBook format, but that wouldn't be an issue for me...

They are one (excellent) of several proprietory methods of solving this issue, the Xeo systems mentioned above are another as indeed are the Sonos Play models but they are all brand specific solutions.

I was thinking of something more universal, which given the proliferation of iThings means some sort of uprated Airplay, unlikely I think.

The Xeos system with an Airplay receiver built into the controller would work, but the real solution in this case would be a more flexible controller with Airplay and network connections, but you are straying into Sonos territory then.

 

[ID.]

Having moved my main setup out of the living room as part of childproofing measures, I've ordered myself a set of Fostex PM0.4n in white.

http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/products/PM0.4n.shtml

Overseas they are sold as cheap/beginner studio monitors, but here in Japan they are promoted as a computer audio solution or as a way to get better sound from your TV or iPod, etc.

I really wanted the bigger PM0.5n, but that didn't fit in with the aim of childproofing (then again, neither does the fact that the PM0.4 have no grills). I think in the EU the series has been upgraded to PM0.4d indicating that they've used class D amplification (to meet EU power consumption standards).

Not really expecting a lot seeing as it was around 130 pounds for a pair, but I'll be interested to see what they can do.

Well, they've arrived and are set up in the living room running off my FUBAR III from the RCA outs. Seem to run nicely straight out of the box. The sound is smooth and a bit warm. Nice detail levels but not at all analytical. I've heard the studio oriented Fostex monitors and the sound is even more detailed and analytical, with less bass even though the specs may claim a very similar frequency response. Good bass for the size, which I think is a deliberate move aimed at home/computer use rather than strictly monitoring.

For the money I'm impressed. Impressed enough that I'd look at bigger actives when I consider upgrading my main setup. I'd need to audition, but bigger Fostex models, Genelec and Adam would definitely be on the audition list. Or Event Opals if I ever sell up and move back to Australia.

Now taking bets on how long before my 9 month old son pokes in the tweeters.

 

[steve_1979]

...For the money I'm impressed. Impressed enough that I'd look at bigger actives when I consider upgrading my main setup...

Welcome to the darkside. :twisted:

Nice review/write up.

 

[ID.]

Maybe it's expectation bias built up by reading this thread, but they sound far better than they have any right to at that price. My wife even (half jokingly) said they sound better than my main system. They don't. The DB1i sound more natural and realistic with a better soundstage and sense of space. My main system manages to make everything listenable, while these little monitors are a little more aggressive with a slightly etched sense to higher frequencies and transients, which sounds really good with rock. The PM0.4n are just surprisingly detailed, open and transparent for the price. It will be interesting to see how they break in. Unlike most speakers which start of sounding a bit tight and with hardish treble, these started off warmer and smoother and already seem to be getting more open and detailed.

 

[daveh75]

I cant believe i've only just discovered this, and dont think they've been mentioned so far, but Emotiva make active monitors.

The Airmotiv 4, 5 and 6

All have a RCA or XLR input and a ribbon tweeter

The Airmotiv 4 has a 4.5" driver and 2 x 25W amps @ $350 a pair
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/speakers/products/airmotiv4

http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/speakers/products/airmotiv4

The Airmotiv 5 has a 5.25" Driver and 2 x 50W amps @ £450 a pair
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/speakers/products/airmotiv5

http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/speakers/products/airmotiv5

The Airmotiv 6 has a 6.5" driver and 100W amp for HF and 110W for LF @ $700 a pair

http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/speakers/products/airmotiv6

 

[AlmaataKZ]

Japanese actives with digital inputs

http://www.kripton.jp/fs/kripton/pc_speaker/ks-3hqm

translated by google

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.kripton.jp/fs/kripton/pc_speaker/ks-3hqm

full range driver, 25 W

 

[davedotco]

I'm not sure what you mean by latency issues, davedotco?

Came onto this thread to mention a speaker that I heard this week, but just saw your post.

Latency, in this context, refers to the likelyhood of time differences between two separate signal paths (left and right in this case) caused by buffering or other factors in the Airplay process or d to a processing, that delay the signal.

Think of 2 AEXs connected directly to 2 active/powered speakers, one used only for the left channel and one for the right, there is no guarantee that the two signal paths will be the same in time, clearly not ideal.

Some pro digital active monitors use a sync cable to maintain timing accuracy for the onboard dacs but some propriety systems such as Dynaudio or Sonos seem to manage without.

 

[davedotco]

I have mentioned, here and elsewhere, that I have been very taken with the Presonus Eris 5 as an outstanding budget active monitor (£230pr) but yesterday I had the chance to hear it's bigger brother, the Eris 8.

Normally for hi-fi use, I prefer the smaller bass drivers as they tend to integrate better than the bigger 8" drivers that many pro users prefer for their ability to deliver a more powerful bass performance.

But in this case I think I will make an exception, the Eris 8 is a significant step up from the 5 in most respects, the bass response is deeper and more contolled and there appears to be no obvious issue with the transition from the 'big' 8" bass driver to the tweeter. Very nice indeed, though the price difference is considerable at £400 pr.

 

[daveh75]

The Pioneer SP-SB23W

Bare with me, coz i know what some of you are thinking. Its not your typical psuedo surround soundbar.

Its a 2.1 soundbar/wireless sub system designed by Andrew Jones that consists of an active xover/DSP with 4 x 3" mids and 2 x 1" tweeters driven by 6 28w class D amps and a sub with 6.5" driver and 50W amp.

It has an optical and anoloue input, and bluetooth and will be released in the US in september @ $399 (no sure of UK price/availabilty)

 

[byakuya83]

http://www.paradigm.com/products/collection=shift/model=a2/page=overview

Not sure if powered or active. Seems a great choice though and well reviewed.

 

[daveh75]

The Paradigm Shift A2s are indeed actives.
AVF really liked them iirc, plus plenty of other positive reviews

 

[AlmaataKZ]

The Pioneer SP-SB23W

Bare with me, coz i know what some of you are thinking. Its not your typical psuedo surround soundbar.

Its a 2.1 soundbar/wireless sub system designed by Andrew Jones that consists of an active xover/DSP with 4 x 3" mids and 2 x 1" tweeters driven by 6 28w class D amps and a sub with 6.5" driver and 50W amp.

It has an optical and anoloue input, and bluetooth and will be released in the US in september @ $399 (no sure of UK price/availabilty)

interesting trend. The bar can be quite good. Not sure about the sub.

 

[DocG]

Very niche indeed, but I noticed that Genelec have a range of active in-wall and in-ceiling speakers (since 2011 that is). The amplifiers (with crossover) are separate units, to be placed in a rack or (ventilated) cupboard. Architect-proof actives, how about that!

 

[AlmaataKZ]

I would like to know prices for these in-wall Genelecs!

 

[DocG]

I would like to know prices for these in-wall Genelecs!

I found a pricelist on a Dutch website (prices per speaker, including frame, grill, amp module; ex VAT)

- AIC25: € 935

- AIW25: € 999

- AIW26: € 1925

- 5041 APM (in wall subwoofer): € 1680

Is that reasonable? I guess it depends how many you need, and what you want to use them for.

 

[fr0g]

I'm looking at those Genelecs right now. The house we are moving into has built in speakers (5.1), and am tempted to upgrade it

Bit pricey, but I am a fan of Genelec.

 

[steve_1979]

They could be a tempting option for anyone looking for discrete surround speakers in a 5.1/7.1 setup.

 

[AlmaataKZ]

They could be a tempting option for anyone looking for discrete surround speakers in a 5.1/7.1 setup.

or just the surround speakers

or say kitchen/dining room stereo pair - speakers in the ceiling, amp and an AEX in one of the cupboards.

not cheap they are.

 

[fr0g]

They could be a tempting option for anyone looking for discrete surround speakers in a 5.1/7.1 setup.

or just the surround speakers

or say kitchen/dining room stereo pair - speakers in the ceiling, amp and an AEX in one of the cupboards.

not cheap they are.

I guess it's demand. Dev costs compared to how many units get sold. Can't be large numbers.

I'd bet my house they sound great though (based on my experience so far with Genelec).

Saying that, it would be massive overkill for me in the kitchen!

Personally I'd only use it for the front 3 of the 5.1 system. The rears would stay passive. And with a sub, the smallest in the range would be enough.

Still pricey though!

 

[steve_1979]

Has anyone heard them? Are they up to the standards of Genelecs other speakers?

 

[DocG]

I'm looking at those Genelecs right now. The house we are moving into has built in speakers (5.1), and am tempted to upgrade it

Bit pricey, but I am a fan of Genelec.

I had a closer look, cos we'll have ceiling speakers in the new house too. But being active, they need 4-core speaker wire, so I couldn't use the wire that's plastered in the ceiling already. I think I'll just let it go...

Moreover, I can't find Genelec dealers in Belgium, and the dealers I found in Holland and Germany don't do the in-ceiling or in-wall speakers (pro-shops).

 

[plastic penguin]

Can't offer any personal experience when it comes to actives but...

One of the best amps I've heard, many, many moons ago (circa 2004), was AVI Laboratory amp. Amazed how compact it was, while the sound was very dynamic -- as it had 150 watts per channel it could power most speakers with ease.

Pity they stopped making it.

 

[steve_1979]

Can't offer any personal experience when it comes to actives but...

You should give them a go sometime PP, you might be pleasantly suprised.

Don't expect a huge difference compared to passives but many actives have a touch more clarity and a bit more dynamic range. Not a massive improvement but as they say every little helps.