Are we kidding ourselves?

[tino]

I imagine the day where it will be possible to make one box with internal music streamer and class D amp and advanced DSP trickery sound like anything you want it to sound like through software. No more box swapping. You like the sound of valves, just upload the SET valve profile for £4.99 a month and away you go

 

[plastic penguin]

I think plastic is right well all end up with one box systems eventually. Im still thinking of getting a uniti the amount of cables and boxes are driving me nuts

I was demonstrating how I feel about hi-fis, not generalising about possible or probable trends or trying to predict other peoples choices... I have always been pro separates - don't mistake that with anti all-in-ones - but there's a crossroads at the moment where I'm losing interest with all the different upgrade permutations.

 

[Womaz]

Recently I have been considering various upgrades to my system.

At xmas I have time off work, I bought the What Hifi mag and this is fatal

So I set about looking to improve my system.......I listened to a 5k+ system at my local dealer. Naim CD player, Naim amp, and PMC speakers. This should have blown me away as my system was a meagre 2.5k.

Truth is I did not like the sound....I dont know whether its just because I am used to the Arcam sound, but it has stopped me looking to replace the main components.

However all of this debating and reading reviews has got me listenng to music again......and that has to be a good thing.

 

[Anonymous]

Good debate.

Pretty clear to me that the "accessibility and convenience" requirement is winning the war over "quality and purism". Got to be logical in the end. Won't be surprised if in 5 yrs most larger new houses (if they are still building them) will have a media streamer the same way most have dishwashers. Just part of the furniture.

Can't wait to see what Apple's "connected telly" looks like...

 

[SteveR750]

If there was a golden age then I'd like to know when it was, because we cannot be talking about remotely close to the same era that delivered us the the Amstrad Tower System.

Hi Fi is a hobby for a lot of people, music is a shared interest for most people interested in "hi fi", but there are many more who don't give it a seconds thought and spend their cash on going to gigs, beer, cars, bike, you name it. I have no hang up spending my banks cash on stuff I get enjoyment from, and to be honest does it really need any more analysis than that? If you keep spending the money and get no pleasure, then you might want to start worrying.

 

[jaxwired]

Unfortunately, some gear is better than other gear. So, no, we are not kidding our selves.

 

[audioaddict]

But when does it all stop there must come a time when our systems probably due to finances simply cannot go any further and we just surley try to enjoy the systems we have

 

[Helmut80]

But when does it all stop there must come a time when our systems probably due to finances simply cannot go any further and we just surley try to enjoy the systems we have

Yes. But depending on finances, personal taste in musuc presentation and importance of the hobby, this point is different for most people. That's the beauty of it. we still all end up with different combinations.

 

[DIB]

I seem to be bucking the trend at the moment. I have hundreds of CD's all ripped in FLAC on my PC and over the last 12 months have moved from virtually playing everything via Foobar2000 to hardly ever at all, and playing the CD's instead. I think this stemmed from finally hitting on a combo Creek Evo 2 amp/cdp that I really love. My useage of internet radio has increased steadily and to this end the Marantz NA7004 came into the equation whilst also taking care of the PC side of things (Spotify/Foobar/Youtube etc.). The turntable has always been a constant, and always will be.

Then along came the Onkyo TX-8050. My mind set was that If I wasn't going to be losing out sonically, then why not sell on my Creek/Marantz gear, buy the Onkyo and a matching (cheaper) CD player, and use the cash on something more important than damn music and boxes. Listened to an Onkyo in-store, liked it and bought one. Tremendous piece of kit, and for £250 unbeatable value. I think I went on record that it was a match for my Creek. A rather hasty statement on reflection. The Onkyo is good, very good, but after a week of constant listening to every format through it, I came to the conclusion that I preferred my Creek, and after hooking up my old set-up I was glad I did. The upshot is that I have sent the Onkyo back. Thats not a bad reflection on the Onkyo, more a statement on how good to me the Creek gear sounds.

Is this the end of my box swapping for the foreseeable future? I sincerely hope so, I cannot remember a time when I've enjoyed my music more and that ultimately is what it's all about.

.

 

[CJSF]

Very interesting reaction/debate . . . My original thought, use a Graphic Equaliser, or the modern equivalent, no need to keep swapping about, set the ambient music sound according to ones mood at the time.

I'm an advocate of as few boxes as is practically possible, however I have not quite got to the 'one box' no cables scenario yet. I still like the idea of a turntable, a CD player and an integrated amplifier, feeding a simple classic single pair of speakers. I dont need a 'GE', because I'm happy with the sound I have, keep the volume down and it can be gentle, smooth and moody, turn the volume up a tad and it starts to get punchy with a leading edge that make you sit up and take notice. The whole is dominated by a warm analogue, slightly valvey sound, with a driving base line that belies the stand mounted speakers . . .

I see no need to be wanting to change this that I enjoy . . . however the addition of a modern Graphic Equaliser would be an interesting experiment?

But, and its a big 'but' . . . Hazel and I have discussed at some length, we are looking at more digital music, we currently listen to a fair bit off Spotify and frankly, CD compared to Spotify, it is difficult to tell the difference a lot of the time. Which makes my 400 CD's compared with many thousands available on Spotify, with no adverts for £50 a year, thats pretty good value.

So, one foot in each camp . . . ? re vamp the old computer, install a new hard drive dedicated to music downloads, stick with the simple Music Streamer II DAC and run a hub cable to my laptop beside my sofa, using the laptop as a glorified hand set.

Not a one box system, but its simple, uncomplicated, I understand it! Its cost me pennies to set up, has no need to be changed for something better . . . just to sound 'different', it can be pure digital or pure analogue as my mood requires. I retain the sound style I like and my leaning towards indulging my preference for vinyl on occasions, and yet, the world of digital music and down loads is my 'lopster' if I want it and all from my listening sofa . . . :dance:

. . . sitting on the fence . . . CJSF

 

[SteveR750]

FWIW J River MC has a pretty sophisticated DSP which is all run in the 64 bit environment. So a bit like editing RAW image files as opposed to JPEG. Not strictly true I know but you get the idea. I have used it, and it works well, though the room calibration / equalisation takes a while to set up properly, which I have not done yet.

 

[moon]

Very interesting reaction/debate . . . My original thought, use a Graphic Equaliser, or the modern equivalent, no need to keep swapping about, set the ambient music sound according to ones mood at the time.

I'm an advocate of as few boxes as is practically possible, however I have not quite got to the 'one box' no cables scenario yet. I still like the idea of a turntable, a CD player and an integrated amplifier, feeding a simple classic single pair of speakers. I dont need a 'GE', because I'm happy with the sound I have, keep the volume down and it can be gentle, smooth and moody, turn the volume up a tad and it starts to get punchy with a leading edge that make you sit up and take notice. The whole is dominated by a warm analogue, slightly valvey sound, with a driving base line that belies the stand mounted speakers . . .

I see no need to be wanting to change this that I enjoy . . . however the addition of a modern Graphic Equaliser would be an interesting experiment?

But, and its a big 'but' . . . Hazel and I have discussed at some length, we are looking at more digital music, we currently listen to a fair bit off Spotify and frankly, CD compared to Spotify, it is difficult to tell the difference a lot of the time. Which makes my 400 CD's compared with many thousands available on Spotify, with no adverts for £50 a year, thats pretty good value.

So, one foot in each camp . . . ? re vamp the old computer, install a new hard drive dedicated to music downloads, stick with the simple Music Streamer II DAC and run a hub cable to my laptop beside my sofa, using the laptop as a glorified hand set.

Not a one box system, but its simple, uncomplicated, I understand it! Its cost me pennies to set up, has no need to be changed for something better . . . just to sound 'different', it can be pure digital or pure analogue as my mood requires. I retain the sound style I like and my leaning towards indulging my preference for vinyl on occasions, and yet, the world of digital music and down loads is my 'lopster' if I want it and all from my listening sofa . . . :dance:

. . . sitting on the fence . . . CJSF

Its what I do with my Netbook, an almost unimaginable amount of music at my fingertips, what with Spotify, all my CDs in lossless, Internet radio

 

[CJSF]

Its what I do with my Netbook, an almost unimaginable amount of music at my fingertips, what with Spotify, all my CDs in lossless, Internet radio

Seemed logical to me . . . I'm to old to try and get my head around all this digital, wireless, streaming stuff. The laptop is old and heavy, moving it about may be a faff? . . . so I may look at small modern net book? prove the idea works for me first. I want to see how radio works, also fancy the talking books, no decent plays anymore on radio, not going to transfer any CDs yet . . . long job??? Going to indulge in a bit of Clapton vinyl now . . . relax.

CJSF

 

[acalex]

But when does it all stop there must come a time when our systems probably due to finances simply cannot go any further and we just surley try to enjoy the systems we have

Well, not sure about this. I think if carefully planned the "upgrading" trend can continue for a long time...

 

[audioaddict]

Actually cj i wldnt mind trying a graphic eq at the minute my systems driving me nuts.!!

 

[CnoEvil]

Actually cj i wldnt mind trying a graphic eq at the minute my systems driving me nuts.!!

IMO Getting a graphic equalizer is plastering over the cracks and degrading the sound at the same time.

I think you either need to add some warmth at the amp end, or at the speaker end....as well as getting some copper speaker cable.

I think you should probably look at the speaker end.....Proac or Spendor. If you don't, you will only end up listening to less and less music.

 

[CJSF]

Actually cj i wldnt mind trying a graphic eq at the minute my systems driving me nuts.!!

So I gather from your other posts audioadict . . . :wall:

A simple suggestion, may not work? but . . . try copper speaker cable and interconnects, also note that cable can be directional, Linn K20 is for instance, as are my interconnects. The suggestion is because of my aversion to silvered cables, they usually sound bright and edgy. The other kit I dont know well enough to help, but something needs to be don. A Graphic Eq, is not going to solve the problem . . . ?

Look at my system, simple, fairly moderately priced, producing a great sound IMHO.

CJSF

PS . . . Talking directional, have you tried reversing your existing cable? . . . grasping at straws :?

 

[chebby]

...also note that cable can be directional, Linn K20 is for instance, as are my interconnects.

PS . . . Talking directional, have you tried reversing your existing cable? . . .

I refer the honourable gentleman to the title of this thread.

 

[audioaddict]

Your system looks great cj

 

[CJSF]

...also note that cable can be directional, Linn K20 is for instance, as are my interconnects.

PS . . . Talking directional, have you tried reversing your existing cable? . . .

I refer the honourable gentleman to the title of this thread.

I presume chebby, you are referring to 'kidding ourselves' and cable directionality?? . . . if so, I have tried it so many times in 30 years, 'some cable' does have a preferred direction . . . if we had the time and lived closer, I'd put my money where my mouth is and prove it to you, but as that is not practical, you will have to take my word for it!

Linn K20 speaker cable has their triangle logo on it, it needs to be pointing away from the speaker, the difference is small, but Hazel and I can both hear it. We also tried some 521 strand cable, Hazel described it as 'squeaky' in the wrong direction.

My own design interconnect is fiercely directional, when we sold it back in the 'good old days', we put a collar on the end that was output, we used to listen to the first set off every new reel to be sure of consistency.

CJSF

 

[chebby]

I presume chebby, you are referring to 'kidding ourselves' and cable directionality?? . . . if so, I have tried it so many times in 30 years, 'some cable' does have a preferred direction . . . if we had the time and lived closer, I'd put my money where my mouth is and prove it to you, but as that is not practical, you will have to take my word for it!

No I won't have to take your word for it.

Although it's a bit embarassing to recall, I have tried this out myself a few times in the past 30 years too*, and it has never made a blind bit of difference.

What next? Peter Belt's foil triangles? Removing the telephone from the room the hifi is in? Little supports to lift speaker cables from the floor? Aligning one's Linn Sondek to face Glasgow? The 1980s have an awful lot to answer for.

*Including on a friend's Primare/ATC/Rega system where one of us swapped the cable around whilst the other was out of the room.

 

[CJSF]

I presume chebby, you are referring to 'kidding ourselves' and cable directionality?? . . . if so, I have tried it so many times in 30 years, 'some cable' does have a preferred direction . . . if we had the time and lived closer, I'd put my money where my mouth is and prove it to you, but as that is not practical, you will have to take my word for it!

No I won't have to take your word for it.

Although it's a bit embarassing to recall, I have tried this out myself a few times in the past 30 years too*, and it has never made a blind bit of difference.

What next? Peter Belt's foil triangles? Removing the telephone from the room the hifi is in? Little supports to lift speaker cables from the floor? Aligning one's Linn Sondek to face Glasgow? The 1980s have an awful lot to answer for.

*Including on a friend's Primare/ATC/Rega system where one of us swapped the cable around whilst the other was out of the room.

I 'experienced' Peter Belt . . . I still have a few bits of foil attached to items, when he came to my home and did his thing :bounce:

As far as cable directionality chebby, we will have to agree to differ . . . I know and believe what I hear, Hazel did blind tests on the K20 and the 521 strand, and picked it every time . . . yes we did it more than once, just to be sure, she was very patient, bless her. I have don it personally so many times. It may have something to do with length, in my audiophile system, with EAR mono-blocks, the K20 was 1m long, swapping around did not make any difference. In my current system, the K20 is 8m long, its is noticeable which way round they are.

What I will concede to, 'not every cable' is directional, 'not every system' shows it, one even wonders if every individual is that sensitive . . . for what reasons, I have no idea? But lets be fair, it no great faff to have a listen to cables, if you cant hear any difference, then you are a happy bunny, its cost nothing, you dont even have to admit to doing it? . . . :cheers:

CJSF

 

[chebby]

I 'experienced' Peter Belt . . . I still have a few bits of foil attached to items, when he came to my home and did his thing :bounce:

I rest my case.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Don't know mate. The world needs nutters like Belt to give light relief to the grind of everyday life.

 

[chebby]

I gave the free Belt foil triangles - that came as a gift with some mag - to a friend's child to add to her sticker book.

Maybe she should have put them on her hifi...