Wireworld Aurora Power Cable

[TrevC]

I'm using a Tacima mains block and had everything plugged in to that. Trying with the amp straight into the wall socket. It seems more lively. I may be imagining it?? I thought the dac would be better plugged into the Tacima though. If not, what woud I use the Tacima for? Just the laptop?

IMO. You are not imagining it.....though there are those on here who will tell you that you are, as it doesn't suit their view of what's possible.

Try your stuff both in, and out of the Tacima...and only use the Tacima where the sound doesn't suffer.

Praying over the Tacima will work better.

The impossible will remain impossible regardless. Nothing to do with belief.

I give up, the clueless win through persistence.

 

[CnoEvil]

I give up.

If only...

 

[steve_1979]

I give up

Don't give up. Keep fighting the good fight.

You have exellent knowledge and understanding of how electronics actually work in the real world (as apposed to the pseudoscience rubbish that that foo hifi companies and magazines spout to brain wash people who don't have a proper understanding of the principals of how electronics work).

Your constant explaining of the truth is like a breath of fresh air to this forum and long may it continue IMO.

 

[CnoEvil]

Don't give up. Keep fighting the good fight.

You have exellent knowledge and understanding of how electronics actually work in the real world (as apposed to the pseudoscience rubbish that that foo hifi companies and magazines spout to brain wash people who don't have a proper understanding of the principals of how electronics work).

Your constant explaining of the truth is like a breath of fresh air to this forum and long may it continue IMO.

You know how to pick your heros, I'll give you that.

 

[newworld]

I'm using a Tacima mains block and had everything plugged in to that. Trying with the amp straight into the wall socket. It seems more lively. I may be imagining it?? I thought the dac would be better plugged into the Tacima though. If not, what woud I use the Tacima for? Just the laptop?

You are definitely not imagining things. Certain manufacturers, such as Naim and Rega, recommend plugging their amplifiers straight into the wall. I find that really cheap power strips makes systems sound horribly coloured and expensive ones bleach it.

Also, if you are using the powercord that came with the unit, check to see if it's of sufficient size. 14 awg should be plenty. One could argue that the PM6005 doesn't need draw enough current for this to matter, but sometimes they give away really nasty powercords with budget components.

I'm speaking strictly from experience and what has worked for me.

 

[SteveR750]

I give up

Don't give up. Keep fighting the good fight.

You have exellent knowledge and understanding of how electronics actually work in the real world (as apposed to the pseudoscience rubbish that that foo hifi companies and magazines spout to brain wash people who don't have a proper understanding of the principals of how electronics work).

Your constant explaining of the truth is like a breath of fresh air to this forum and long may it continue IMO.

Wankering folk off in the pursuit of truth! Hell yeah!

 

[steve_1979]

I give up

Don't give up. Keep fighting the good fight.

You have exellent knowledge and understanding of how electronics actually work in the real world (as apposed to the pseudoscience rubbish that that foo hifi companies and magazines spout to brain wash people who don't have a proper understanding of the principals of how electronics work).

Your constant explaining of the truth is like a breath of fresh air to this forum and long may it continue IMO.

Wankering folk off in the pursuit of truth! Hell yeah!

While I usually agree with what Trev says I also think that he should say it in a more tactful way.

 

[andyjm]

I'm using a Tacima mains block and had everything plugged in to that. Trying with the amp straight into the wall socket. It seems more lively. I may be imagining it?? I thought the dac would be better plugged into the Tacima though. If not, what woud I use the Tacima for? Just the laptop?

IMO. You are not imagining it.....though there are those on here who will tell you that you are, as it doesn't suit their view of what's possible.

Try your stuff both in, and out of the Tacima...and only use the Tacima where the sound doesn't suffer.

Cno,

Of course he is imagining it. Stereo is an illusion, there really isn't a soundstage, and I can see that the vocalist isn't sitting in between my speakers because she isn't there. There isn't a group of small musicians in each speaker either. The whole damn thing is an illusion.

Why it should be such a leap from this to realising that perhaps the brain might be subject to other audio illusions is beyond me.

I find it telling that generally posters with a technical background agree that cables, mains leads, whatever can sound different, but then go to establish that this is just an illusion and that their mind is playing tricks on them. Those without technical backgrounds only seem to get to the first step.

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno,

Of course he is imagining it. Stereo is an illusion, there really isn't a soundstage, and I can see that the vocalist isn't sitting in between my speakers because she isn't there. There isn't a group of small musicians in each speaker either. The whole damn thing is an illusion.

Why it should be such a leap from this to realising that perhaps the brain might be subject to other audio illusions is beyond me.

I find it telling that generally posters with a technical background agree that cables, mains leads, whatever can sound different, but then go to establish that this is just an illusion and that their mind is playing tricks on them. Those without technical backgrounds only seem to get to the first step.

I never mentioned soundstage, or that cables make a provable improvement. I suggested to the OP that he try it and go from there.

There have also been technical posters over the years who have found improvements, so that isn't a solid argument.

FWIW. I am one of those stubborn individuals who takes nothing "as read". Not overly flowery reviews in Hifi mags, or well meaning, though slightly condescending posts on forums. I haven't arrived at my view lightly. I have experimented (to my satisfaction) with P/Cs from the likes of TCI, Audioquest, Cardas, Furutech, Clearer Audio, Chord, Atlas and Titan....and all on a variety of equipment.

The results have been situation and equipment dependant, and have gone from making no difference at all, to making a worthwhile improvement....and certainly not always related to cost.

At no point have I arrogantly come on here and told anyone what to do, but always suggest people try for themselves, as I've heard enough to know that this debate is not as straight forward as some would have you believe.

 

[steve_1979]

Cno,

Of course he is imagining it. Stereo is an illusion, there really isn't a soundstage, and I can see that the vocalist isn't sitting in between my speakers because she isn't there. There isn't a group of small musicians in each speaker either. The whole damn thing is an illusion.

Why it should be such a leap from this to realising that perhaps the brain might be subject to other audio illusions is beyond me.

I find it telling that generally posters with a technical background agree that cables, mains leads, whatever can sound different, but then go to establish that this is just an illusion and that their mind is playing tricks on them. Those without technical backgrounds only seem to get to the first step.

I never mentioned soundstage, or that cables make a provable improvement. I suggested to the OP that he try it and go from there.

There have also been technical posters over the years who have found improvements, so that isn't a solid argument.

FWIW. I am one of those stubborn individuals who takes nothing "as read". Not overly flowery reviews in Hifi mags, or well meaning, though slightly condescending posts on forums. I haven't arrived at my view lightly. I have experimented (to my satisfaction) with P/Cs from the likes of TCI, Audioquest, Cardas, Furutech, Clearer Audio, Chord, Atlas and Titan....and all on a variety of equipment.

The results have been situation and equipment dependant, and have gone from making no difference at all, to making a worthwhile improvement....and certainly not always related to cost.

At no point have I arrogantly come on here and told anyone what to do, but always suggest people try for themselves, as I've heard enough to know that this debate is not as straight forward as some would have you believe.

Did you compare those cables in a blind test Cno?

If you didn't then your conclusions are irrelevant (I'm not meaning to sound rude, just stating fact )

 

[TrevC]

Cno,

Of course he is imagining it. Stereo is an illusion, there really isn't a soundstage, and I can see that the vocalist isn't sitting in between my speakers because she isn't there. There isn't a group of small musicians in each speaker either. The whole damn thing is an illusion.

Why it should be such a leap from this to realising that perhaps the brain might be subject to other audio illusions is beyond me.

I find it telling that generally posters with a technical background agree that cables, mains leads, whatever can sound different, but then go to establish that this is just an illusion and that their mind is playing tricks on them. Those without technical backgrounds only seem to get to the first step.

I never mentioned soundstage, or that cables make a provable improvement. I suggested to the OP that he try it and go from there.

There have also been technical posters over the years who have found improvements, so that isn't a solid argument.

FWIW. I am one of those stubborn individuals who takes nothing "as read". Not overly flowery reviews in Hifi mags, or well meaning, though slightly condescending posts on forums. I haven't arrived at my view lightly. I have experimented (to my satisfaction) with P/Cs from the likes of TCI, Audioquest, Cardas, Furutech, Clearer Audio, Chord, Atlas and Titan....and all on a variety of equipment.

The results have been situation and equipment dependant, and have gone from making no difference at all, to making a worthwhile improvement....and certainly not always related to cost.

At no point have I arrogantly come on here and told anyone what to do, but always suggest people try for themselves, as I've heard enough to know that this debate is not as straight forward as some would have you believe.

I would never tell anyone what to do, but I can advise you not to waste money on aftermarket power leads because it is not possible that they can change performance. Unfortunately you neither understand the technical evidence or reasons for this or believe what I tell you. Your loss, really. It would be better if you stopped leading newbies astray, it isn't a religion you have to proselytize.

 

[bigboss]

TrevC, although I agree with you, I don't think Cno is leading anyone astray. You may as well participate on a science forum! This forum is for Hi Fi and Home Cinema enthusiasts who have read your points as well as others'. The whole point of this hobby is experimenting, and if you can return the product, what's the harm in trying?

 

[CnoEvil]

Did you compare those cables in a blind test Cno?

If you didn't then your conclusions are irrelevant (I'm not meaning to sound rude, just stating fact )

In the case of M/Cs, I did not do a blind test, though I converted a very sceptical friend (who had a technical background and said it was impossible).

I can't prove they make an improvement, so I suggest people try it.....if you haven't, then I would also suggest your conclusions are also irrelevent, despite all the "evidence" you think you have.

Now since we've been around this stalemate a hundred times, I think further argument is fruitless. Let the OP try it and report back. Simples.

FWIW. I respect your POV, as you are at least tactful in the way you put it across.

Peace and Love.

 

[bigboss]

Exactly. Let people try for themselves. They've been told (repeatedly) to try a blind test as well. It's now their money and their choice. Let's stop deciding for them.

 

[CnoEvil]

I would never tell anyone what to do, but I can advise you not to waste money on aftermarket power leads because it is not possible that they can change performance. Unfortunately you neither understand the technical evidence or reasons for this or believe what I tell you. Your loss, really. It would be better if you stopped leading newbies astray, it isn't a religion you have to proselytize.

I will let the forum be the judge of whether I am proselytizing and leading them astray.

 

[steve_1979]

Did you compare those cables in a blind test Cno?

If you didn't then your conclusions are irrelevant (I'm not meaning to sound rude, just stating fact )

In the case of M/Cs, I did not do a blind test, though I converted a very sceptical friend (who had a technical background and said it was impossible).

I can't prove they make an improvement, so I suggest people try it.....if you haven't, then I would also suggest your conclusions are also irrelevent, despite all the "evidence" you think you have.

Now since we've been around this stalemate a hundred times, I think further argument is fruitless. Let the OP try it and report back. Simples.

FWIW. I respect your POV, as you are at least tactful in the way you put it across.

Peace and Love.

Yes a few years ago when I first became interested in HiFi I did compare a few cables. I heard small differences in some of the sighted comparisons but could never tell them apart in blind comparisons.

But like yourself I've been round this stalemate argument too many times to care so I'll (dis)gracefully bow out for now.

 

[Bluesboy]

Cno,

Of course he is imagining it. Stereo is an illusion, there really isn't a soundstage, and I can see that the vocalist isn't sitting in between my speakers because she isn't there. There isn't a group of small musicians in each speaker either. The whole damn thing is an illusion.

[/quote]

So all stereo soundstages are the same? We all just imagine the differences through wishful thinking? Hmmmmmm

I did a test last week. Two sources, same material into the same DAC. First source was tivo box streaming Netflix going into the optical input on my dac. Second source was laptop streaming the same Netflix show into the dac via usb using jriver audio. I synced the two sources and swapped between the two inputs on the dac. It's the same material and the same ones and zeros...so it should sound the same? But there was quite a difference. The optical input had a wider, deeper and more spacious sound. More reverby . The usb input was flatter, less air around sounds. I expected the usb from laptop with bit perfect from jriver would sound better, But the optical source sounded a lot richer to me...a lot more enjoyable. I was bit disappointed tbh. Anyhoo, the point is that there was a clear difference between the two soundscapes. Did I imagine it? Nope. It takes about half a second to switch between sources on my dac. The difference was obvious. Maybe it's the cheap usb cable I use? Maybe it's the sources? I don't know. But both are digital and are clearly different.

 

[Gazzip]

Is this debate not futile?

The scientist audiophile knows that correctly applied cables cannot make a difference to SQ because science says it cannot. The believer audiophile who has heard a difference know that cables can make a difference to SQ because they have heard it themselves.

In each instance the debator KNOWS that their standpoint is entirely correct. The arguments are as entrenched as they are polemic.

I would go further to say that this is not a debate at all because neither party has any ground to give and there is no room for attrition. It is the West Bank and Gazza of the HiFi world. You are Isreal and Palestine. There can be no winner until one is annihilated letting the others point of view reign ad infinitum.

Forget double blind testing my friends. I am afraid that what you need is pistols at dawn as that would seem to be the only way of sorting this out once and for all.

 

[wilro15]

@Cno you're one of the most helpful and sensible people on here. You're certainly not leading anyone astray!

 

[Bluesboy]

@Cno you're one of the most helpful and sensible people on here. You're certainly not leading anyone astray!

Agreed. He's giving some helpful tips and basically saying try it and see for yourself. Science and scientists have said many things are impossible, only to be proved completely wrong! An open mind is the only reasonable attitude IMHO.

I'll be back if/when I try this cable...

 

[Vladimir]

Let get something straight here andyjm et all.

Being a person from a technicall background does not make you automatically a skeptic. Plenty of gullible engineers who enjoy snake oil rubbish, rationalize and endorse its use. I know one who is 57 years old, he is a senior engineer at a hydroplant and owns 15,000 euro SF mini monitors and 1,300 eur speaker cables. There is no way I can reason with him regardless of his technical background, he is convinced hi-fi is the exception to the laws of physics and begins to dryheave, coughing up furrballs when anyone mentions DBT, level matching or any type of science in domestic audio. He immediatly insults and curses like an italian waiter. To him sound quality is only limited by the depth of his pocket. He is also a snob, what a coincidence. I know several others from technical professions but not as extreme as this chap.

You can be a skeptic and have an MBA in finance or be a dentist or not even graduated highschool. You don't even have to read a Karl Popper book. Being a skeptic is not about technology but a precaution in dealing with and disseminating information, especially facts. It all begins by accepting the premise that 'people are wolves' (Homo Homini Lupus Est), as in people are oportunistic and some (not all) will take advantage of your good will. Being a skeptic is being neutral and weighing in all incoming information presented to you, especially one demanding part of your resources, with evidence and by doing your own research etc.

The opposite of critical thinking and skepticism is baaaaahhhhhhhhhhh.

All of us skeptics began as gullible audiophools. However, unlike most we have a currious investigative mind. We have to ask 'why?' and demand reasonable explanation for our money. When eventually the snake oil scheme runs out of 'because', we get out of the game. Most never come back to hi-fi but few come back to pull people out of the cave and into the light. Cno is pulling them back in the cave so he doesn't end up alone. Every sheep needs a herd. He may also be an absinthe addict (just speculating here).

Whew!

That sure felt like a productive use of my time.

 

[Anderson]

Excellent post.

 

[DocG]

I think it's important that the 'objectivist' POV is put forth and substantiated in every single cable thread (as new cable questions are often raised by new forum visitors), preferably in a straightforward but polite way (andyjm rules IMO!). But once the OP is advised not to waste money on a USB-cable (and why not), but to save up for a new pair of speakers, that's where I agree with bigboss:

It's now their money and their choice. Let's stop deciding for them.

PS: in most cases the OP has made up his mind long before starting the thread anyway...

 

[Gazzip]

Vladimir, you seem to be referring to ALL HiFi as snake oil and a medium for parting the fool with his wallet?

 

[Vladimir]

Well most specs are manipulated, most reviews are spiced up... Hi-Fi = sugar pills at this point. Although I see a lot of specs are manipulated and reviews are mere brochure talk in the pro audio world. Not impressed with it as well.

Why the need for so much lies? Just make it pretty and take my money damn it!