Wireworld Aurora Power Cable

[Bluesboy]

Well yes, it makes perfect sense to me. The cable filters out the dirty power before it goes to the amp.

I believe pro studios do consider clean power very important. I read through a thread on these forums in which a pro cable designer gave very detailed and complex reasons explaining how dirty power destroys a stereo image. He actually designed and installed cabling for Abbey Road studios (if I remember correctly). The man clearly knows his stuff and is extremely experienced. It was that thread which got me interested in trying one of these mains cables. I think it's worth a try.

There seem to be a lot of fragile egos and paranoid types here. I just wanted an open discussion on the subject to help with my decision.

I'm going to order one of these cables and report back...

Blues, there are a few of us on here who do know what we are talking about, and have designed equipment for use in studios.

As a general rule, clean power is a good thing. In electronics, noise is hard to handle if it is in the same frequency range as the required signal. In the case of mains, the required signal is 50Hz, and the EMI is many many multiples of that. It is very easy and cheap to filter out main noise for a few pennies spent on a VDR and a capacitor, and the place to do it is where the mains supply enters the equipment enclosure. Thats why and where equipment manufacturers do it. You have to remember that the internal power supply components also make excellent filters in their own right.

The UK is blessed with clean and stable mains, but if you live somehwere with really poor mains, distorted waveforms, large spikes, DC offset, then a mains filter or mains regenerator may make some sense.

What won't make any sense is a fancy mains cable with a daft name. Its a piece of wire for goodness sake. What could it possibly do?

If you could link to an explanation of how a magic mains cable improves things (from someone other than a cable seller or manufacturer), I would be very interested. Perhaps a link to the Abbey Road chap you mention above...

Thanks Andy. This is the type of reply I was hoping for...someone with some constructive knowledge. Wireworld do say that their cables filter out all but the 50-60 frequency? The 'Abbey Road chap' posted 4 or 5 times in a cable thread on here but I can't remember which one it was.

I find it hard to believe that every review of mains cables is complete BS, including those on WHF! They are so specific about the character of various cables! Are they all just lying or deluded?

After reading your post I am now having doubts though. Maybe I'll spend the money on a decent USB cable haha

 

[Bluesboy]

Consider the amount of different cables, transformers, connections, fuses etc. the power has to go through before it gets to your house, (Then there is the house wiring it has to go through), and do you honestly believe that a 1m cable that goes from your wall socket to your equipment will make a difference. (Assuming its correctly rated for the equipment in use)

In addition, why do Professional Film and Music Production Studios (The ones that make the music you listen too) use standard mains cables, if these specialist cables are supposedly better. (If a standard mains cable is fine for professionals, its certainly going to be fine for home users)

Bill

Well yes, it makes perfect sense to me. The cable filters out the dirty power before it goes to the amp.

I believe pro studios do consider clean power very important. I read through a thread on these forums in which a pro cable designer gave very detailed and complex reasons explaining how dirty power destroys a stereo image. He actually designed and installed cabling for Abbey Road studios (if I remember correctly). The man clearly knows his stuff and is extremely experienced. It was that thread which got me interested in trying one of these mains cables. I think it's worth a try.

Who are the mugs though? People with open minds who are willing to experiment and experience it for them selves, or the closed-minded types who spend a fortune on hifi equipment but refuse to consider the possibility that cables can make a difference and could get considerable gains if only they'd allow themselves to give it a try?

There seem to be a lot of fragile egos and paranoid types here. I just wanted an open discussion on the subject to help with my decision.

I'm going to order one of these cables and report back...

Well done. Now consider the fact that all traces of the mains waveform including the dirt (LOL) are removed entirely in the power supplies of all hifi electronics. Feel silly yet?

I feel silly most of the time Trev.

So are mains conditioners worthless too, if power supplies perfect to power? Is that a daft question? I'm not tying to start a row.

 

[cheeseboy]

I find it hard to believe that every review of mains cables is complete BS, including those on WHF! They are so specific about the character of various cables! Are they all just lying or deluded?

neither, it's just a known process of how the brain processes information, and that with sighted, no matter how hard you try, your vision will affect your other senses. It's also the same reason you can get two radically different reviews on the same product. Also, why on earth would a magazine that relies on advertisers, run columns about how they couldn't hear any differences between cables so don't bother buying anything above x.

So whilst somebody may hear differences with x different cables, if you actually record and compare, or blind test, those differences are either miniscule (ie only those with freakish hearing, think servere autism level for eg, would hear it, otherwise inaudible to most normal humans), are massively less pronounced (think for example moving a picture 2mm left and then trying to get somebody else to ask if it's moved or not) or they don't exist.

 

[Bluesboy]

Well done. Now consider the fact that all traces of the mains waveform including the dirt (LOL) are removed entirely in the power supplies of all hifi electronics. Feel silly yet?

Go easy Trev, clearly the OP is not 'technical' and the snake oil (cable) sales people can be very persuasive.

The big thing the OP needs to understand is that our (all of us) perception of hi-fi quality is determined as much by what we see and what we are told as what we hear.

This has all been documented in various ways and can easily be researched but the absolute killer is that no cable manufacturer, signal or mains, has ever demonstrated the superiority of his product in a blind test. If any company was able to do this, I am sure their marketing guys would be all over it.

I'll say something I have said many times before, I encourage any enthusiast to take part in a blind test if at all possible, it does not have to be all that rigorous, just have the swaps done by a third party who does not communicate with the listeners.

The way differences, clearly heard in sighted tests, disappear under these conditions can be quite shocking.

So are you saying all audiophile cables are a complete con? do you only use the cheapest cables in your system? If so, have you tried 'better' cables and found no difference? Just asking. I'm not trying to provoke anyone. I just want people with first hand experience. That is why I started this thread.

 

[TrevC]

Well done. Now consider the fact that all traces of the mains waveform including the dirt (LOL) are removed entirely in the power supplies of all hifi electronics. Feel silly yet?

Go easy Trev, clearly the OP is not 'technical' and the snake oil (cable) sales people can be very persuasive.

The big thing the OP needs to understand is that our (all of us) perception of hi-fi quality is determined as much by what we see and what we are told as what we hear.

This has all been documented in various ways and can easily be researched but the absolute killer is that no cable manufacturer, signal or mains, has ever demonstrated the superiority of his product in a blind test. If any company was able to do this, I am sure their marketing guys would be all over it.

I'll say something I have said many times before, I encourage any enthusiast to take part in a blind test if at all possible, it does not have to be all that rigorous, just have the swaps done by a third party who does not communicate with the listeners.

The way differences, clearly heard in sighted tests, disappear under these conditions can be quite shocking.

So are you saying all audiophile cables are a complete con? do you only use the cheapest cables in your system? If so, have you tried 'better' cables and found no difference? Just asking. I'm not trying to provoke anyone. I just want people with first hand experience. That is why I started this thread.

Yes, all are a complete con, sadly. There is no benefit over standard cables to be had from any of them, mainly because they are standard cables in posh frocks.

 

[TrevC]

Consider the amount of different cables, transformers, connections, fuses etc. the power has to go through before it gets to your house, (Then there is the house wiring it has to go through), and do you honestly believe that a 1m cable that goes from your wall socket to your equipment will make a difference. (Assuming its correctly rated for the equipment in use)

In addition, why do Professional Film and Music Production Studios (The ones that make the music you listen too) use standard mains cables, if these specialist cables are supposedly better. (If a standard mains cable is fine for professionals, its certainly going to be fine for home users)

Bill

Well yes, it makes perfect sense to me. The cable filters out the dirty power before it goes to the amp.

I believe pro studios do consider clean power very important. I read through a thread on these forums in which a pro cable designer gave very detailed and complex reasons explaining how dirty power destroys a stereo image. He actually designed and installed cabling for Abbey Road studios (if I remember correctly). The man clearly knows his stuff and is extremely experienced. It was that thread which got me interested in trying one of these mains cables. I think it's worth a try.

Who are the mugs though? People with open minds who are willing to experiment and experience it for them selves, or the closed-minded types who spend a fortune on hifi equipment but refuse to consider the possibility that cables can make a difference and could get considerable gains if only they'd allow themselves to give it a try?

There seem to be a lot of fragile egos and paranoid types here. I just wanted an open discussion on the subject to help with my decision.

I'm going to order one of these cables and report back...

Well done. Now consider the fact that all traces of the mains waveform including the dirt (LOL) are removed entirely in the power supplies of all hifi electronics. Feel silly yet?

I feel silly most of the time Trev.

So are mains conditioners worthless too, if power supplies perfect to power? Is that a daft question? I'm not tying to start a row.

The mains doesn't need to be perfect, that's the point. Not a trace of the 50 Hz waveform or any interference (dirt?) riding on it will be present once the DC reaches the amplifier electronics.

A surge limiter might be a good idea though.

 

[Vladimir]

 

[cheeseboy]

Yes, all are a complete con, sadly. There is no benefit over standard cables to be had from any of them, mainly because they are standard cables in posh frocks.

I don't think it's fair to say they are all a con. I guess it depends on what they are claiming. If a manufacturer just says here's some cables made from top quality stuff and then doesn't talk gibberish technobabble and doesn't say it will make everything sound better, they aren't conning anybody, so I'd say that's a tad harsh.

For me, it's unproven and unsubstantiated claims that really irk me, and those that skirt the fine line of advertising and marketing which I hate.

 

[andyjm]

So are you saying all audiophile cables are a complete con? do you only use the cheapest cables in your system? If so, have you tried 'better' cables and found no difference? Just asking. I'm not trying to provoke anyone. I just want people with first hand experience. That is why I started this thread.

Just to be clear, none of us are saying cables don't make a difference. The cable has to be fit for purpose. Speaker cables need to be of adequate thickness, signal cables have to have appropriate shielding, coax has to have the right dielectric and dimensions and so on.

What won't make a difference is substituting one perfectly good cable for another. I have tried blind tests, sighted tests and I do have the equipment and knowledge to test cables for their electrical performance.

On many occasions I have heard a significant difference which disappears when the same test is performed blind. Human perception is very susceptible to suggestion bias.

There is no magic in cables. The science behind the conduction of AC signals has been understood for well over 100 years. You can make you own mind up about the motivations behind the many reviews of cables and interconnects. I find it particularly telling that magazines will not submit their reviewers to blind tests. If you have the inclination, google James Randi and Pear Cables, or the ASA and Russ Andrews.

 

[davedotco]

So are you saying all audiophile cables are a complete con? do you only use the cheapest cables in your system? If so, have you tried 'better' cables and found no difference? Just asking. I'm not trying to provoke anyone. I just want people with first hand experience. That is why I started this thread.

Again the thing to understand here is that most of us have and do hear differences between cables. Shocking I know.

Suggestion bias is so strong that even sceptics determined not to hear a difference, will still hear one, it's just the way the brain works. I was a partner/owner/salesman in the business for many years and have tried pretty much everything but the real revelations came some years ago when I agreed to sit on a panel 'blind testing' speaker cables.

To cut a long story short a well known magazine set up the test which tested 3meter pairs ranging from roughly £50 to £1000 per pair. In level matched compaisons one chap was able to pick one cable fairly consistently, due to what he described as it's 'clangy' character, the rest of us got nowere. Over two days of testing it was clear that no-one could reliably hear any real differences, so we gave up and the article was quietly shelved.

 

[drummerman]

Only blonds who cycle and have an acquired taste for silver can fish in this sea successfully.

Uh ah oh

 

[drummerman]

Well yes, it makes perfect sense to me. The cable filters out the dirty power before it goes to the amp.

I believe pro studios do consider clean power very important. I read through a thread on these forums in which a pro cable designer gave very detailed and complex reasons explaining how dirty power destroys a stereo image. He actually designed and installed cabling for Abbey Road studios (if I remember correctly). The man clearly knows his stuff and is extremely experienced. It was that thread which got me interested in trying one of these mains cables. I think it's worth a try.

There seem to be a lot of fragile egos and paranoid types here. I just wanted an open discussion on the subject to help with my decision.

I'm going to order one of these cables and report back...

Blues, there are a few of us on here who do know what we are talking about, and have designed equipment for use in studios.

As a general rule, clean power is a good thing. In electronics, noise is hard to handle if it is in the same frequency range as the required signal. In the case of mains, the required signal is 50Hz, and the EMI is many many multiples of that. It is very easy and cheap to filter out main noise for a few pennies spent on a VDR and a capacitor, and the place to do it is where the mains supply enters the equipment enclosure. Thats why and where equipment manufacturers do it. You have to remember that the internal power supply components also make excellent filters in their own right.

The UK is blessed with clean and stable mains, but if you live somehwere with really poor mains, distorted waveforms, large spikes, DC offset, then a mains filter or mains regenerator may make some sense.

What won't make any sense is a fancy mains cable with a daft name. Its a piece of wire for goodness sake. What could it possibly do?

If you could link to an explanation of how a magic mains cable improves things (from someone other than a cable seller or manufacturer), I would be very interested. Perhaps a link to the Abbey Road chap you mention above...

Thanks Andy. This is the type of reply I was hoping for...someone with some constructive knowledge. Wireworld do say that their cables filter out all but the 50-60 frequency? The 'Abbey Road chap' posted 4 or 5 times in a cable thread on here but I can't remember which one it was.

I find it hard to believe that every review of mains cables is complete BS, including those on WHF! They are so specific about the character of various cables! Are they all just lying or deluded?

After reading your post I am now having doubts though. Maybe I'll spend the money on a decent USB cable haha

If they have a return policy, why don't you just try one out?

Where is the problem?

 

[TrevC]

Well yes, it makes perfect sense to me. The cable filters out the dirty power before it goes to the amp.

I believe pro studios do consider clean power very important. I read through a thread on these forums in which a pro cable designer gave very detailed and complex reasons explaining how dirty power destroys a stereo image. He actually designed and installed cabling for Abbey Road studios (if I remember correctly). The man clearly knows his stuff and is extremely experienced. It was that thread which got me interested in trying one of these mains cables. I think it's worth a try.

There seem to be a lot of fragile egos and paranoid types here. I just wanted an open discussion on the subject to help with my decision.

I'm going to order one of these cables and report back...

Blues, there are a few of us on here who do know what we are talking about, and have designed equipment for use in studios.

As a general rule, clean power is a good thing. In electronics, noise is hard to handle if it is in the same frequency range as the required signal. In the case of mains, the required signal is 50Hz, and the EMI is many many multiples of that. It is very easy and cheap to filter out main noise for a few pennies spent on a VDR and a capacitor, and the place to do it is where the mains supply enters the equipment enclosure. Thats why and where equipment manufacturers do it. You have to remember that the internal power supply components also make excellent filters in their own right.

The UK is blessed with clean and stable mains, but if you live somehwere with really poor mains, distorted waveforms, large spikes, DC offset, then a mains filter or mains regenerator may make some sense.

What won't make any sense is a fancy mains cable with a daft name. Its a piece of wire for goodness sake. What could it possibly do?

If you could link to an explanation of how a magic mains cable improves things (from someone other than a cable seller or manufacturer), I would be very interested. Perhaps a link to the Abbey Road chap you mention above...

Thanks Andy. This is the type of reply I was hoping for...someone with some constructive knowledge. Wireworld do say that their cables filter out all but the 50-60 frequency? The 'Abbey Road chap' posted 4 or 5 times in a cable thread on here but I can't remember which one it was.

I find it hard to believe that every review of mains cables is complete BS, including those on WHF! They are so specific about the character of various cables! Are they all just lying or deluded?

After reading your post I am now having doubts though. Maybe I'll spend the money on a decent USB cable haha

If they have a return policy, why don't you just try one out?

Where is the problem?

It's probably you if you don't get it by now.

 

[drummerman]

Well yes, it makes perfect sense to me. The cable filters out the dirty power before it goes to the amp.

I believe pro studios do consider clean power very important. I read through a thread on these forums in which a pro cable designer gave very detailed and complex reasons explaining how dirty power destroys a stereo image. He actually designed and installed cabling for Abbey Road studios (if I remember correctly). The man clearly knows his stuff and is extremely experienced. It was that thread which got me interested in trying one of these mains cables. I think it's worth a try.

There seem to be a lot of fragile egos and paranoid types here. I just wanted an open discussion on the subject to help with my decision.

I'm going to order one of these cables and report back...

Blues, there are a few of us on here who do know what we are talking about, and have designed equipment for use in studios.

As a general rule, clean power is a good thing. In electronics, noise is hard to handle if it is in the same frequency range as the required signal. In the case of mains, the required signal is 50Hz, and the EMI is many many multiples of that. It is very easy and cheap to filter out main noise for a few pennies spent on a VDR and a capacitor, and the place to do it is where the mains supply enters the equipment enclosure. Thats why and where equipment manufacturers do it. You have to remember that the internal power supply components also make excellent filters in their own right.

The UK is blessed with clean and stable mains, but if you live somehwere with really poor mains, distorted waveforms, large spikes, DC offset, then a mains filter or mains regenerator may make some sense.

What won't make any sense is a fancy mains cable with a daft name. Its a piece of wire for goodness sake. What could it possibly do?

If you could link to an explanation of how a magic mains cable improves things (from someone other than a cable seller or manufacturer), I would be very interested. Perhaps a link to the Abbey Road chap you mention above...

Thanks Andy. This is the type of reply I was hoping for...someone with some constructive knowledge. Wireworld do say that their cables filter out all but the 50-60 frequency? The 'Abbey Road chap' posted 4 or 5 times in a cable thread on here but I can't remember which one it was.

I find it hard to believe that every review of mains cables is complete BS, including those on WHF! They are so specific about the character of various cables! Are they all just lying or deluded?

After reading your post I am now having doubts though. Maybe I'll spend the money on a decent USB cable haha

If they have a return policy, why don't you just try one out?

Where is the problem?

It's probably you if you don't get it by now.

Charming I have to say

 

[Bluesboy]

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/nordost-valhalla-2-the-importance-of-cables-in-high-end-audio/

This cable review did get me excited. With the insane prices of the cables he was reviewing it kind of made spending £170 seem a lot more reasonable. He was absolutely blown away by the difference these cables made to his system! He got my juices flowing for sure! Now, after reading some of the informed posts in this thread, I'm not so sure. I may still give it a try, but if I hear a difference would I just be imagining it? I'm no further forward really. Maybe I should've paid more attention to Cnoevil and Macdiddy's early posts

Thanks to everyone who has posted in this thread. It has all given me some perspective. If I do buy one of these cables I'll be sure post back and give my impressions.

 

[Bluesboy]

try the speaker positioning first, a little further to the back wall. You'll more than likely get more from this than any purchase.

Be patient, try things with your own setup first.

and I can honestly say there are very few if any miracle cures for anything, just trial and error.

Thanks bigfish. I've done some googling. Trying the speakers in different positions has made quite an improvement. Good advice! I am learning

 

[drummerman]

try the speaker positioning first, a little further to the back wall. You'll more than likely get more from this than any purchase.

Be patient, try things with your own setup first.

and I can honestly say there are very few if any miracle cures for anything, just trial and error.

Thanks bigfish. I've done some googling. Trying the speakers in different positions has made quite an improvement. Good advice! I am learning

I am puzzled.

You have spent some decent amount of money on a system, including separate DAC, have invested in 'more than bare basics cabling', considered a £140 power cable ... and have not tried speaker positioning?

Forgive me if this whole thing starts to read a little implausable. Perhaps I'm wrong but good luck anyhow

 

[drummerman]

Actually, probably wrong to assume the obvious is ... obvious.

I agree though that starting with the basics is always a good start.

Apologies.

 

[abacus]

Here are the various re-fits in Abby Road Studios and the manufactures who supplied the cables. (Some are within links in the text)

http://www.vdctrading.com/blog/2011/11/08/abbey-road-chooses-vdc-trading-to-supply-studio-52/

http://www.studioconnections.co.uk/abbey/description.htm

As the domestic environment is nothing like the studio environment, most have little relevance for the Hi Fi user; hence the reason no difference is detected during blind tests.

The Stevehuffphoto link that has been provided above is completely nonsensical and a con. (As you will find out when you compare it to the descriptions in the Abby Road Studio texts)

Bill

 

[TrevC]

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/nordost-valhalla-2-the-importance-of-cable..

i wonder how much they paid him. Either that or he's a clueless dork.

 

[Bluesboy]

Actually, probably wrong to assume the obvious is ... obvious.

I agree though that starting with the basics is always a good start.

Apologies.

No prob Drummerman. It's just tricky placing the speakers in this room so that they sound good but don't take the whole room over. But moving them away from side walls really does improve the sound. Also, I think some room treatment could help. I'm learning but by bit...

 

[CnoEvil]

Maybe I should've paid more attention to Cnoevil and Macdiddy's early posts

I've been there and got the T-shirt (several, in fact)

Thanks to everyone who has posted in this thread. It has all given me some perspective. If I do buy one of these cables I'll be sure post back and give my impressions.

It's very simple - just ignore everybody, try one out and then see if you then come over to The Darkside (or not).

We will still be here when you report back with your findings.

 

[newworld]

No prob Drummerman. It's just tricky placing the speakers in this room so that they sound good but don't take the whole room over. But moving them away from side walls really does improve the sound. Also, I think some room treatment could help. I'm learning but by bit...

Glad you are finding solutions right at your fingertip. Here's another suggestion. If you have your amplifier connected to a power strip or conditioner, try plugging it straight to the wall instead. You can do the same with your dac.

 

[Bluesboy]

No prob Drummerman. It's just tricky placing the speakers in this room so that they sound good but don't take the whole room over. But moving them away from side walls really does improve the sound. Also, I think some room treatment could help. I'm learning but by bit...

Glad you are finding solutions right at your fingertip. Here's another suggestion. If you have your amplifier connected to a power strip or conditioner, try plugging it straight to the wall instead. You can do the same with your dac.

I'm using a Tacima mains block and had everything plugged in to that. Trying with the amp straight into the wall socket. It seems more lively. I may be imagining it?? I thought the dac would be better plugged into the Tacima though. If not, what woud I use the Tacima for? Just the laptop?

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm using a Tacima mains block and had everything plugged in to that. Trying with the amp straight into the wall socket. It seems more lively. I may be imagining it?? I thought the dac would be better plugged into the Tacima though. If not, what woud I use the Tacima for? Just the laptop?

IMO. You are not imagining it.....though there are those on here who will tell you that you are, as it doesn't suit their view of what's possible.

Try your stuff both in, and out of the Tacima...and only use the Tacima where the sound doesn't suffer.