What have you done Cno?....now I believe in Black Ravioli

[CnoEvil]

Yes, I saw the explanation because from pictures I couldn't really see TWO granite tops on top of each other, it seemed only one. I guess you removed the rubber feet from the bottom granite...

What I still don't see is a thread with pics of your system as promised on Ben's thread :rofl:

The Granite boards are not on top of each other, but side by side, in order to match the surface area of the Gramma (which is quite big).

System pictured here: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/your-system/and-finally

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Shafesk, what is your hi-fi rack made of?

 

[acalex]

Yes, I saw the explanation because from pictures I couldn't really see TWO granite tops on top of each other, it seemed only one. I guess you removed the rubber feet from the bottom granite...

What I still don't see is a thread with pics of your system as promised on Ben's thread :rofl:

The Granite boards are not on top of each other, but side by side, in order to match the surface area of the Gramma (which is quite big). System pictured here: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/your-system/and-finally

Ahhhhh, I understand now!

Thanks

 

[shafesk]

Shafesk, what is your hi-fi rack made of?

its made of wood, placed as far away from the speakers as the room would allow

 

[paradiziac]

If anyone can't be bothered with the DIY, the pro equivalent is:

http://www.primacoustic.com/recoil.htm

The issue with my slim floorstanders was more of wobbling than bass boom, so I spiked them onto large-ish pieces of plywood which then rest on screws which are screwed into the floorboards.

Tightened things up a bit.

As regards isolation, the Musicworks acrylic stuff works for me

 

[CnoEvil]

If anyone can't be bothered with the DIY, the pro equivalent is:

http://www.primacoustic.com/recoil.htm

I didn't know I had a "pro-equivalent"......well I'll be!

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Shafesk, what is your hi-fi rack made of?

its made of wood, placed as far away from the speakers as the room would allow

solid wood? or veneered fibreboard?

 

[fr0g]

Can I interest anyone in some CD demagnitisers and a big green pen I have?

 

[CnoEvil]

Can I interest anyone in some CD demagnitisers and a big green pen I have?

ME. :bounce:

 

[shafesk]

Shafesk, what is your hi-fi rack made of?

its made of wood, placed as far away from the speakers as the room would allow

solid wood? or veneered fibreboard?

I think its a veneered fibreboard, not the ikea kind though its a beast....is rock solid and takes two to move

 

[shafesk]

Little update, I tried these things under my speaker spikes...not only is the speaker more stable but bass is palpable now, I can feel it thumping. I don't own the most bass heavy speakers in the world and never really felt bass before. It's not boomy bass though, nice and tight...its just solid....maybe I should use two of these pad and they'll improve my hearing too

 

[shafesk]

Can I interest anyone in some CD demagnitisers and a big green pen I have?

I'll give you double of whatever Cno is willing to pay

 

[CnoEvil]

Little update, I tried these things under my speaker spikes...not only is the speaker more stable but bass is palpable now, I can feel it thumping. I don't own the most bass heavy speakers in the world and never really felt bass before. It's not boomy bass though, nice and tight...its just solid....maybe I should use two of these pad and they'll improve my hearing too

I think you should try Granite, from a place that has the option to return it (eg. Argos).....and if that works, use the feet as spike shoes.....there's nothing to loose, only my credibility!

 

[CnoEvil]

I'll give you double of whatever Cno is willing to pay

Oi, stop muscling in !

 

[ESP2009]

My green pen dried up ages ago and I have so many new CDs to anoint. I reckon we need a Dutch Auction to decide this.

 

[CnoEvil]

My green pen dried up ages ago and I have so many new CDs to anoint. I reckon we need a Dutch Auction to decide this.

Just paint your "soon to be Naim Streamer" Green.....it might set a new trend, based on envy (how appropriate).

 

[shafesk]

Little update, I tried these things under my speaker spikes...not only is the speaker more stable but bass is palpable now, I can feel it thumping. I don't own the most bass heavy speakers in the world and never really felt bass before. It's not boomy bass though, nice and tight...its just solid....maybe I should use two of these pad and they'll improve my hearing too

I think you should try Granite, from a place that has the option to return it (eg. Argos).....and if that works, use the feet as spike shoes.....there's nothing to loose, only my credibility!

will give it a shot...only if I can get some damn time off work, been working the past 3 saturdays...well ur credibility has held up well, I'll take my chances.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

I think its a veneered fibreboard, not the ikea kind though its a beast....is rock solid and takes two to move

all right. I think this might interest you. I found it on Lavardin web site in FAQ section some time ago.

The supporting board of audio components intends first to connect the component to a static and steady physical reference and second to be itself as neutral as possible.
Thus, puting component on resonating materials seems really a bad idea. Meanwhile, some materials at first non suspected for resonating do in fact much more than expected : glass, marble, even granitron and all minerals and metals have very poor self damping modulus and allow vibrations to stay in, be amplified and sent back to component.
The ultimate material is wood. Wood is made of oriented fibers that conduct energy and reduce it when energy has to pass from one fiber to an other. More, the plywood behave much better than solid wood because of its thin cross layers that allow a maximum spreading of the energy. Pressed wood and "medite" powder wood do not spread energy because they lost the fiber structure of real wood.

that's the reason why I think those rubbery pads work for you. as for your speakers; I'd suggest a wooden or plywood chopping board and rest your speakers with spikes attached. spikes will transfer energy down to boards where it will be dissipated. granite or other hard surfaces will bounce energy back so you'll need to use some energy absorbing material with them, just as CNO has it with his speakers. I think this is just unnecessary complication of solution that can be utterly easy.

one more thing. you will not need any chopping boards if your floor is made of real wooden boards. use chopping boards only when you have those wood-effect thin floor panels.

 

[CnoEvil]

I'd suggest a wooden or plywood chopping board and rest your speakers with spikes attached. spikes will transfer energy down to boards where it will be dissipated. granite or other hard surfaces will bounce energy back so you'll need to use some energy absorbing material with them, just as CNO has it with his speakers. I think this is just unnecessary complication of solution that can be utterly easy.

one more thing. you will not need any chopping boards if your floor is made of real wooden boards. use chopping boards only when you have those wood-effect thin floor panels.

Oldric, having experimented with this in my situation, this is what I found - The Gramma on it's own was better than the Granite on it's own......but there was a noticeable improvement to the bass when the two were combined.

I think that the Granite is acting as a barrier for the remaining vibrations that may be getting through. You are probably right about experimenting with Wood vs Granite boards ( or even the two combined in a sandwich construction)......I have found my solution, and I think if there is a suspended floor is involved, a bit of experimentation with inexpensive solutions can pay off.......though there are a lot of people who have had good results with Granite/Marble/Slate/Paving Stones.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

I'd suggest a wooden or plywood chopping board and rest your speakers with spikes attached. spikes will transfer energy down to boards where it will be dissipated. granite or other hard surfaces will bounce energy back so you'll need to use some energy absorbing material with them, just as CNO has it with his speakers. I think this is just unnecessary complication of solution that can be utterly easy.

one more thing. you will not need any chopping boards if your floor is made of real wooden boards. use chopping boards only when you have those wood-effect thin floor panels.

Oldric, having experimented with this in my situation, this is what I found - The Gramma on it's own was better than the Granite on it's own......but there was a noticeable improvement to the bass when the two were combined.

I think that the Granite is acting as a barrier for the remaining vibrations that may be getting through. You are probably right about experimenting with Wood vs Granite boards ( or even the two combined in a sandwich construction)......I have found my solution, and I think if there is a suspended floor is involved, a bit of experimentation with inexpensive solutions can pay off.......though there are a lot of people who have had good results with Granite/Marble/Slate/Paving Stones.

yeah, but as far as I can remember you have some special situation with the floor in your house. I don't think that in case of concrete floor one must go down granite slabs route. what for?

I sat my bookshelf speakers on Atacama Nexus i version stands (the ones with gel pads - brilliant thing BTW). the stand stood directly on the floor. no spikes nor other means de-/coupling to the floor were used because I saw/heard no point in it. I have concrete floors covered with carpet only. so no exotic materials here. even filling columns with sand brought little, if any, change. it's just that the gel pads did such a great job of absorbing energy from the speakers.

so my advice here is to use spikes on wood or gel pads directly attached to speakers in case of solid flooring. in case of suspended floor (like in your case) some hard surface may be needed. but only then.

 

[CnoEvil]

yeah, but as far as I can remember you have some special situation with the floor in your house. I don't think that in case of concrete floor one must go down granite slabs route. what for?

I sat my bookshelf speakers on Atacama Nexus i version stands (the ones with gel pads - brilliant thing BTW). the stand stood directly on the floor. no spikes nor other means de-/coupling to the floor were used because I saw/heard no point in it. I have concrete floors covered with carpet only. so no exotic materials here. even filling columns with sand brought little, if any, change. it's just that the gel pads did such a great job of absorbing energy from the speakers.

so my advice here is to use spikes on wood or gel pads directly attached to speakers in case of solid flooring. in case of suspended floor (like in your case) some hard surface may be needed. but only then.

Solid concrete is completely different.

There is a school of thought that says, in this case you should couple the stands to the floor using the spikes, so you can sink the unwanted vibrations into it. This thinking also says you should couple the speakers to the stands using cones, to help this transfer of energy.

So yes I agree.....ie. .Couple to solid floors and isolate from suspended ones.

I'm not sure there are hard and fast rules, only general guidelines, as there are so many variables.

 

[shafesk]

I think its a veneered fibreboard, not the ikea kind though its a beast....is rock solid and takes two to move

all right. I think this might interest you. I found it on Lavardin web site in FAQ section some time ago.

The supporting board of audio components intends first to connect the component to a static and steady physical reference and second to be itself as neutral as possible.
Thus, puting component on resonating materials seems really a bad idea. Meanwhile, some materials at first non suspected for resonating do in fact much more than expected : glass, marble, even granitron and all minerals and metals have very poor self damping modulus and allow vibrations to stay in, be amplified and sent back to component.
The ultimate material is wood. Wood is made of oriented fibers that conduct energy and reduce it when energy has to pass from one fiber to an other. More, the plywood behave much better than solid wood because of its thin cross layers that allow a maximum spreading of the energy. Pressed wood and "medite" powder wood do not spread energy because they lost the fiber structure of real wood.

that's the reason why I think those rubbery pads work for you. as for your speakers; I'd suggest a wooden or plywood chopping board and rest your speakers with spikes attached. spikes will transfer energy down to boards where it will be dissipated. granite or other hard surfaces will bounce energy back so you'll need to use some energy absorbing material with them, just as CNO has it with his speakers. I think this is just unnecessary complication of solution that can be utterly easy.

one more thing. you will not need any chopping boards if your floor is made of real wooden boards. use chopping boards only when you have those wood-effect thin floor panels.

Thank you oldric for taking the trouble to find this. I'm not too concerned with why I'm noticing the benefits, I'm just happy that I have been getting them. I'm just thinking about the best material to put under the speakers. I think putting wood or granite underneath the spikes will cause the wood or graite to move when the music is playing (I might be completely wrong). If so, it might make the sound worse. Also, looking at Cno's design it is clear that his mechanism is a bit more complicated than just a piece of granite....I believe he has some damping in between the two pieces of granite.....what should I do? I trust both of you have achieved the best possible results with your system, it might not work the same way for my system....

 

[frogfish]

I think its a veneered fibreboard, not the ikea kind though its a beast....is rock solid and takes two to move

all right. I think this might interest you. I found it on Lavardin web site in FAQ section some time ago.

The supporting board of audio components intends first to connect the component to a static and steady physical reference and second to be itself as neutral as possible.
Thus, puting component on resonating materials seems really a bad idea. Meanwhile, some materials at first non suspected for resonating do in fact much more than expected : glass, marble, even granitron and all minerals and metals have very poor self damping modulus and allow vibrations to stay in, be amplified and sent back to component.
The ultimate material is wood. Wood is made of oriented fibers that conduct energy and reduce it when energy has to pass from one fiber to an other. More, the plywood behave much better than solid wood because of its thin cross layers that allow a maximum spreading of the energy. Pressed wood and "medite" powder wood do not spread energy because they lost the fiber structure of real wood.

that's the reason why I think those rubbery pads work for you. as for your speakers; I'd suggest a wooden or plywood chopping board and rest your speakers with spikes attached. spikes will transfer energy down to boards where it will be dissipated. granite or other hard surfaces will bounce energy back so you'll need to use some energy absorbing material with them, just as CNO has it with his speakers. I think this is just unnecessary complication of solution that can be utterly easy.

one more thing. you will not need any chopping boards if your floor is made of real wooden boards. use chopping boards only when you have those wood-effect thin floor panels.

I was browsing a French website on equipment racks/ supports, and someone commented on Lavardin that they actually sell their own designs in France (from 400 to 1600 Euro) - Not sure if this is the case in the UK or elsewhere

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm just thinking about the best material to put under the speakers. I think putting wood or granite underneath the spikes will cause the wood or graite to move when the music is playing (I might be completely wrong). If so, it might make the sound worse. Also, looking at Cno's design it is clear that his mechanism is a bit more complicated than just a piece of granite....I believe he has some damping in between the two pieces of granite.....what should I do? I trust both of you have achieved the best possible results with your system, it might not work the same way for my system....

My platform is an Auralex Gramma (acoustic foam + wood) sitting on top of a layer of Granite.

If there is concrete under the wood, Granite may not be necessary....but it could still be worth trying. If it has little rubber feet, it shouldn't move, but get it from somewhere with the option of returning it.

 

[shafesk]

Thanks for the suggestion Cno, I will give it a shot. I have some spare marble hanging around so I will try it with that first and if it makes a difference I'll go for the granite. You do realise if it works, there will be plenty more threads asking for your opinion? :read: