Anyone have any experience with Black Ravioli isolation?

[andyjm]

All electronics are affected by vibration, so make sure they are on a solid mount. Concrete is ideal (As used by professionals) but is not very practical for the home, however any quality engineered rack will do fine; (Use spikes if on carpet) so don’t spend silly money on it. (Combined Glass and steel racks are an excellent price/performance balance)

Under arduous use (Heavy shaking) a HDD can be damaged (Causing drop outs) and thus an SSD is better in this type of environment, however unless you are being silly a HDD will be fine.

Apart from the above, then unless you change the laws of physics there will be absolutely no difference between a HDD and SSD regarding sound, as it is totally dependent on the DAC used.

Hope this helps

Bill

I have just tried tapping the case of my laptop with the volume set high, nothing through the speakers.

Should I try hitting it harder, perhaps with a chunk of concrete....?

Don’t confuse shock and vibration, as while they are be connected, they are not the same.

Hope this helps

Bill

Don't confuse information posted on an internet forum with fact.

The difference between the physical deformation of an electronic component leading to microphony from an impulse shock rather than repetetive vibration is?

 

[davedotco]

All electronics are affected by vibration, so make sure they are on a solid mount. Concrete is ideal (As used by professionals) but is not very practical for the home, however any quality engineered rack will do fine; (Use spikes if on carpet) so don’t spend silly money on it. (Combined Glass and steel racks are an excellent price/performance balance)

Under arduous use (Heavy shaking) a HDD can be damaged (Causing drop outs) and thus an SSD is better in this type of environment, however unless you are being silly a HDD will be fine.

Apart from the above, then unless you change the laws of physics there will be absolutely no difference between a HDD and SSD regarding sound, as it is totally dependent on the DAC used.

Hope this helps

Bill

I have just tried tapping the case of my laptop with the volume set high, nothing through the speakers.

Should I try hitting it harder, perhaps with a chunk of concrete....?

Don’t confuse shock and vibration, as while they are be connected, they are not the same.

Hope this helps

Bill

There is a 'vibrator' in the bedroom, should I try that....... :?

 

[davedotco]

:cheer: wow, this thread has come up with quite a few new hifi gems for people to bat around... ripping on battery powering sounding better than plugged in, ssd's over hdd's, usb sticks and their power.... Gods sake, I thought that people were finally starting to get over this voodoo bullcrap, but it appears not. :roll:

I thought the clue was in the thread title......... :read:

 

[cheeseboy]

:cheer: wow, this thread has come up with quite a few new hifi gems for people to bat around... ripping on battery powering sounding better than plugged in, ssd's over hdd's, usb sticks and their power.... Gods sake, I thought that people were finally starting to get over this voodoo bullcrap, but it appears not. :roll:

I thought the clue was in the thread title......... :read:

doh!!! :rofl: I'm in gullible mode today I'm afraid.

Anybody want to sell me some clothes, warn once by an emperor??

 

[davedotco]

:cheer: wow, this thread has come up with quite a few new hifi gems for people to bat around... ripping on battery powering sounding better than plugged in, ssd's over hdd's, usb sticks and their power.... Gods sake, I thought that people were finally starting to get over this voodoo bullcrap, but it appears not. :roll:

I thought the clue was in the thread title......... :read:

doh!!! :rofl: I'm in gullible mode today I'm afraid.

Anybody want to sell me some clothes, warn once by an emperor??

Can't help with the clothes but I have a nice bridge no-one is using......

The last one I had found it's way to Lake Havasu in Arizona.

 

[ROTH AV]

Is this Black Ravioli stuff for real ?

Do people really buy this stuff, i.e. give other people money for it ?

If it's real...............then it's more astonishing than Cherie Lunghi's gorgeousness (anyone see her on Holby City the other night ?).

 

[Covenanter]

My post above should have read...

Interesting, would the SSD have to be setup as the primary drive with whatever OS running from it, and if not would using a pendrive or RAMdrive offer the same benefits. Or (I can supply my own pointy hat and corner) have I just been had?

Sorry about my incoherence I sacked my proof reader, poor thing was overworked anyway.

Using the laptop on battery power will make quite a difference, as will moving from a regular hard drive to an SSD.

When using Mrs DDC's iPad, even using Spotify Premium and Airplay via an AEX downloaded (offline) tracks sound better than when listening to real time downloads.

Rather than worry about mechanical isolation I would be more concerned with electromagnetic isolation. A Faraday Cage around the laptop would be a good solution though it does make it tricky operating the keyboard.

If you had a big enough Faraday cage you could sit inside it. Cars make pretty good Faraday cages.

Chris

 

[BigH]

That was the 1st thing I tried! ... though weirdly enough, in humid climate the blu tak started separating and the oily blue stuff got stuck to my veneers... had to change the whole shelf! I used the Bostik ones... Would you think there are other better ones?

Thanks a lot rick!

Thanks a lot for the replies people! I'm gonna try all these things...

You could try Black Tack thats a lot more sticky, costs a bit more about £5 a pack.

Black Ravioli how long do you have to cook it for?

Did you see they (BR) were warned by the ASA about their claims?

 

[Covenanter]

I found this:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/bluetac_e.html

Chris

 

[Covenanter]

Is this Black Ravioli stuff for real ?

Do people really buy this stuff, i.e. give other people money for it ?

If it's real...............then it's more astonishing than Cherie Lunghi's gorgeousness (anyone see her on Holby City the other night ?).

I think you may be a dirty old man! Welcome to the club.

Chris

PS She is gorgeous!

 

[P00dl3]

No indeed, you will never cure people of it. There seems to be a determination to wilfully misinterpret even the most basic science and throw irrelevant comparisons into the mix. Audio is not a special case, it is in fact probably one of the simplest analogue forms we process in the digital world every day. It uses very low bandwidth by modern standards, entire libraries can exist in RAM if need be on modern systems, even quite significant amounts of data in the cache on a conventional HDD, minor interruptions in data flow from other process or shocks are handled with ease. Electrical interference of any kind is only a concern during the analogue stage, so is irrelevant during ripping. Can noise upset digital systems? Of course is can, but modern circuitry and design means its takes something quite special to make this happen or some seriously lazy or flaky design. You don't find this in a modern PC handling signalsand in instrcution in the MHz domain, the machine would be useless. In addition digital systems have built in error correction and detection schemes, that some audio implementations don't choose to adopt such systems to combat interruptions and the infamous jitter says more about the audio industry than it will ever tell you about digital electronics.

 

[namefail]

Do you really think HDD caches store music? Really..

 

[hone_u2]

Its true there's a lot of "voodoo" and fairydust regarding these sort of things...

I admit I may believe in a few things in those "fairyland" areas... But its only because, in my systems, in my environment, they worked.

Now about HDDs and SSDs,

The first reason I wouldn't buy an HDD is because of the basic functional noise it creates... heck! One of the reason's I love my ATC preamp is because the potentiometer is amazingly quiet (my earlier amp wasn't)... So when i change the volume it doesn't throw a motor sound at me! I am pretty irritant to sounds of that type...

SSDs are quiet that way... Now there have been articles (I would've have linked them but I'm not on my computer now) I bookmarked, where they compare the two and some have preferred one over the other, sometimes even HDD over SSD... There's a lot of information there.. and i respect those researchers...

I just always test it for myself, and do whatever I like best... I even tried their fusion drive, but i chose the ssd...

The macs in my experience create a lot of noise (ventillation etc.) when stressed, and having the data on the drive while performing an activity makes it not only sluggish but also slightly noisy... that's why I don't store anything locally...

 

[hone_u2]

:cheer: wow, this thread has come up with quite a few new hifi gems for people to bat around... ripping on battery powering sounding better than plugged in, ssd's over hdd's, usb sticks and their power.... Gods sake, I thought that people were finally starting to get over this voodoo bullcrap, but it appears not. :roll:

I don't believe in battery over AC, I haven't had any experience with that... I beleive in SSDs over HDDs and I've given my reasons... the rest is something I'm not aware of... but I think it'll be interesting to learn from the people who have had experiences?

 

[matt49]

Rather than worry about mechanical isolation I would be more concerned with electromagnetic isolation. A Faraday Cage around the laptop would be a good solution though it does make it tricky operating the keyboard.

If you had a big enough Faraday cage you could sit inside it. Cars make pretty good Faraday cages.

Chris

They do a great demo of a Faraday Cage at the Deutsches Museum in Munich. A member of the museum staff sits inside the cage suspended above the ground, and a charge of 220,000V is applied. Worth watching the video on this page for this and other high-voltage high jinx -- the commentary's in (Bavarian) German though.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[Macspur]

Its true there's a lot of "voodoo" and fairydust regarding these sort of things...

I admit I may believe in a few things in those "fairyland" areas... But its only because, in my systems, in my environment, they worked.

Now about HDDs and SSDs,

The first reason I wouldn't buy an HDD is because of the basic functional noise it creates... heck! One of the reason's I love my ATC preamp is because the potentiometer is amazingly quiet (my earlier amp wasn't)... So when i change the volume it doesn't throw a motor sound at me! I am pretty irritant to sounds of that type...

SSDs are quiet that way... Now there have been articles (I would've have linked them but I'm not on my computer now) I bookmarked, where they compare the two and some have preferred one over the other, sometimes even HDD over SSD... There's a lot of information there.. and i respect those researchers...

I just always test it for myself, and do whatever I like best... I even tried their fusion drive, but i chose the ssd...

The macs in my experience create a lot of noise (ventillation etc.) when stressed, and having the data on the drive while performing an activity makes it not only sluggish but also slightly noisy... that's why I don't store anything locally...

The Acoustifeet I linked to earlier are particularly ideal for Macs.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[hone_u2]

Its true there's a lot of "voodoo" and fairydust regarding these sort of things...

I admit I may believe in a few things in those "fairyland" areas... But its only because, in my systems, in my environment, they worked.

Now about HDDs and SSDs,

The first reason I wouldn't buy an HDD is because of the basic functional noise it creates... heck! One of the reason's I love my ATC preamp is because the potentiometer is amazingly quiet (my earlier amp wasn't)... So when i change the volume it doesn't throw a motor sound at me! I am pretty irritant to sounds of that type...

SSDs are quiet that way... Now there have been articles (I would've have linked them but I'm not on my computer now) I bookmarked, where they compare the two and some have preferred one over the other, sometimes even HDD over SSD... There's a lot of information there.. and i respect those researchers...

I just always test it for myself, and do whatever I like best... I even tried their fusion drive, but i chose the ssd...

The macs in my experience create a lot of noise (ventillation etc.) when stressed, and having the data on the drive while performing an activity makes it not only sluggish but also slightly noisy... that's why I don't store anything locally...

The Acoustifeet I linked to earlier are particularly ideal for Macs.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

hey so sorry i might have missed that earlier... Did check them out, hope I can find a supplier in New Zealand...

 

[andyjm]

Now about HDDs and SSDs,

The first reason I wouldn't buy an HDD is because of the basic functional noise it creates... heck! One of the reason's I love my ATC preamp is because the potentiometer is amazingly quiet (my earlier amp wasn't)... So when i change the volume it doesn't throw a motor sound at me! I am pretty irritant to sounds of that type...

SSDs are quiet that way... Now there have been articles (I would've have linked them but I'm not on my computer now) I bookmarked, where they compare the two and some have preferred one over the other, sometimes even HDD over SSD... There's a lot of information there.. and i respect those researchers...

As HDDs contain moving components they will certainly produce more noise than SSDs - which are silent. This may be an issue if you locate the drive close to your listening area.

I am confused about the rest of your post. Are you suggesting that somehow data from a SSD sounds better than data from a HDD?

 

[hone_u2]

Now about HDDs and SSDs,

The first reason I wouldn't buy an HDD is because of the basic functional noise it creates... heck! One of the reason's I love my ATC preamp is because the potentiometer is amazingly quiet (my earlier amp wasn't)... So when i change the volume it doesn't throw a motor sound at me! I am pretty irritant to sounds of that type...

SSDs are quiet that way... Now there have been articles (I would've have linked them but I'm not on my computer now) I bookmarked, where they compare the two and some have preferred one over the other, sometimes even HDD over SSD... There's a lot of information there.. and i respect those researchers...

As HDDs contain moving components they will certainly produce more noise than SSDs - which are silent. This may be an issue if you locate the drive close to your listening area.

I am confused about the rest of your post. Are you suggesting that somehow data from a SSD sounds better than data from a HDD?

sorry for the confusion, there was this article that said that yes... But personally that's not a domain I'd venture out to at all because the HDD fundamentally is noisy because of the moving parts, and it's also slower than Flash drives. So I can't really comment on whether a data would sound better from an SSD or not because I didn't test it myself to say anything...

 

[andyjm]

Now about HDDs and SSDs,

The first reason I wouldn't buy an HDD is because of the basic functional noise it creates... heck! One of the reason's I love my ATC preamp is because the potentiometer is amazingly quiet (my earlier amp wasn't)... So when i change the volume it doesn't throw a motor sound at me! I am pretty irritant to sounds of that type...

SSDs are quiet that way... Now there have been articles (I would've have linked them but I'm not on my computer now) I bookmarked, where they compare the two and some have preferred one over the other, sometimes even HDD over SSD... There's a lot of information there.. and i respect those researchers...

As HDDs contain moving components they will certainly produce more noise than SSDs - which are silent. This may be an issue if you locate the drive close to your listening area.

I am confused about the rest of your post. Are you suggesting that somehow data from a SSD sounds better than data from a HDD?

sorry for the confusion, there was this article that said that yes... But personally that's not a domain I'd venture out to at all because the HDD fundamentally is noisy because of the moving parts, and it's also slower than Flash drives. So I can't really comment on whether a data would sound better from an SSD or not because I didn't test it myself to say anything...

If I were you, I would stop reading the publication that included the article you refer to, they clearly have no idea what they are talking about. The DAC doesn't know where the data has come from. Data is data, and as long as it is uncorrupted (and it will be uncorrupted whether HDD or SSD), then it will sound the same.

 

[BigH]

How about granite something like this: http://www.dunelm-mill.com/shop/black-granite-work-top-surface-protector-108380?cm_mmc=shopping-_-google_shopping-_-<Black%20Granite%20Work%20

 

[CnoEvil]

I did a write up here: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/black-ravioli

I think it is very expensive, but can give good results. It is vital that you get a "demo pack" and try it in your system.

Valhalla Technology are worth looking out for as well, and much cheaper: http://www.kronosav.com/accessories/isolation.html

Wow Cno that's a really good write up! Thanks for that! Unfortunately, I can't get a demo pack, i'll have to buy it straight... Is there any in particular you would recommend?

Where are you based, as my dealer (Kronos AV) might send you stuff to try, with a refund if returned.

My advice is not to go for anything expensive, if you can't return it, as this is a trial and error exercise.

Personally, I think wood is a great material for a rack......there is stuff like Foculpods / Polipods: http://www.analogueseduction.net/foculpod-polipod/DFMPVA.html

:and Auralex isolation products.

You might like to have a read of Lavardins FAQs (last 4 questions): http://www.lavardin.com/lavardin-faqE.html#support

 

[matt49]

Now about HDDs and SSDs,

The first reason I wouldn't buy an HDD is because of the basic functional noise it creates... heck! One of the reason's I love my ATC preamp is because the potentiometer is amazingly quiet (my earlier amp wasn't)... So when i change the volume it doesn't throw a motor sound at me! I am pretty irritant to sounds of that type...

SSDs are quiet that way... Now there have been articles (I would've have linked them but I'm not on my computer now) I bookmarked, where they compare the two and some have preferred one over the other, sometimes even HDD over SSD... There's a lot of information there.. and i respect those researchers...

As HDDs contain moving components they will certainly produce more noise than SSDs - which are silent. This may be an issue if you locate the drive close to your listening area.

I am confused about the rest of your post. Are you suggesting that somehow data from a SSD sounds better than data from a HDD?

sorry for the confusion, there was this article that said that yes... But personally that's not a domain I'd venture out to at all because the HDD fundamentally is noisy because of the moving parts, and it's also slower than Flash drives. So I can't really comment on whether a data would sound better from an SSD or not because I didn't test it myself to say anything...

If I were you, I would stop reading the publication that included the article you refer to, they clearly have no idea what they are talking about. The DAC doesn't know where the data has come from. Data is data, and as long as it is uncorrupted (and it will be uncorrupted whether HDD or SSD), then it will sound the same.

One of the causes of confusion in digital audio is that people don't distinguish between the data and the signal.

Strictly speaking, data has no sound at all. Data is meaningful content: e.g. digital data is just 1s and 0s. In order to have a sound, data needs to be transmitted as a signal, an electrical signal in this case (i.e. the signal is the electrical medium in which the data's transmitted). Of course, it's entirely possible to make a digital audio system in which the data is transmitted very poorly either because the device that's reading the data is ineffective (e.g. a CD player that has no or poor error correction) or because the signal is electrically noisy.

But as andyjm says, an HDD, assuming it's working at all, will transmit the data in exactly the same form as an SSD will.

 

[hone_u2]

I did a write up here: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/black-ravioli

I think it is very expensive, but can give good results. It is vital that you get a "demo pack" and try it in your system.

Valhalla Technology are worth looking out for as well, and much cheaper: http://www.kronosav.com/accessories/isolation.html

Wow Cno that's a really good write up! Thanks for that! Unfortunately, I can't get a demo pack, i'll have to buy it straight... Is there any in particular you would recommend?

Where are you based, as my dealer (Kronos AV) might send you stuff to try, with a refund if returned.

My advice is not to go for anything expensive, if you can't return it, as this is a trial and error exercise.

Personally, I think wood is a great material for a rack......there is stuff like Foculpods / Polipods: http://www.analogueseduction.net/foculpod-polipod/DFMPVA.html

:and Auralex isolation products.

You might like to have a read of Lavardins FAQs (last 4 questions): http://www.lavardin.com/lavardin-faqE.html#support

I've used a lot of Auralex! Their Bass Traps, diffusers etc. In the early days those taught me a lot about how a room sound can be changed... haha

I'm in New Zealand... I'll check out those racks when I get the time! Thanks a lot cNo!

Hone

 

[hone_u2]

Now about HDDs and SSDs,

The first reason I wouldn't buy an HDD is because of the basic functional noise it creates... heck! One of the reason's I love my ATC preamp is because the potentiometer is amazingly quiet (my earlier amp wasn't)... So when i change the volume it doesn't throw a motor sound at me! I am pretty irritant to sounds of that type...

SSDs are quiet that way... Now there have been articles (I would've have linked them but I'm not on my computer now) I bookmarked, where they compare the two and some have preferred one over the other, sometimes even HDD over SSD... There's a lot of information there.. and i respect those researchers...

As HDDs contain moving components they will certainly produce more noise than SSDs - which are silent. This may be an issue if you locate the drive close to your listening area.

I am confused about the rest of your post. Are you suggesting that somehow data from a SSD sounds better than data from a HDD?

sorry for the confusion, there was this article that said that yes... But personally that's not a domain I'd venture out to at all because the HDD fundamentally is noisy because of the moving parts, and it's also slower than Flash drives. So I can't really comment on whether a data would sound better from an SSD or not because I didn't test it myself to say anything...

If I were you, I would stop reading the publication that included the article you refer to, they clearly have no idea what they are talking about. The DAC doesn't know where the data has come from. Data is data, and as long as it is uncorrupted (and it will be uncorrupted whether HDD or SSD), then it will sound the same.

One of the causes of confusion in digital audio is that people don't distinguish between the data and the signal.

Strictly speaking, data has no sound at all. Data is meaningful content: e.g. digital data is just 1s and 0s. In order to have a sound, data needs to be transmitted as a signal, an electrical signal in this case (i.e. the signal is the electrical medium in which the data's transmitted). Of course, it's entirely possible to make a digital audio system in which the data is transmitted very poorly either because the device that's reading the data is ineffective (e.g. a CD player that has no or poor error correction) or because the signal is electrically noisy.

But as andyjm says, an HDD, assuming it's working at all, will transmit the data in exactly the same form as an SSD will.

Completely understand. I know data is data and has no sound at all, for it to be played it has to be transmitted as a signal... i know that an HDD and SSD will read the data and whether its an SSD or HDD it won't make a difference... WHat I'm trying to say is, because of the noise of HDD that caused a disturbance for me, I opted for an SSD... because its quieter... Even though the music is the same (same data and all that), the noise disturbs me... Not only that but the fact that SSDs are faster is more convenient because the OS operates more smoothly... Also... It may just be me, but I've felt sometimes the nanos sounded better than their iPod Classics which have HDD... not because the data is read differently, but because I can't shake the feeling that there is that noise... maybe very little, but there is a disturbance of some kind... I think in an iPod since the components are placed so close together, the chances of the headphones picking up the noise could be higher? I maybe wrong in attributing that to the HDD, but I would think it most probably is the HDD... Yes, my friend had challenged me to a blind test on this one... FORGIVE ME FOR BEING VAGUE TOO SUCCINCT IN MY REPLIES... ITS REALLY HARD TO TYPE FROM AN iPhone...