Anyone have any experience with Black Ravioli isolation?

[hone_u2]

Hello people

I have a Mac mini going into a Chord QuteHD...

I have the beautifully made walnut hifi rack from... Hifi racks

Now, I'm a believer in isolation, but as much as i have tried, I've found mostly with the hifi products I've used, that the isolation feet they are equipped with originally do the best job, anything adding onto that just confuses the sonic signature for me if doing anything at all... I know this might sound very strange but I tend to prefer the sound without them. I know they are supposed to get rid of vibrations and sound 'clearer' and more 'articulate' but that doesn't always happen without taking away a few elements from the soundscape... And I feel i don't have much control over the results... Like when I change from a cobra cable to a chameleon cable, have a vague idea of what that might change, and I'm right... But with isolation, it all goes out of hand for me, as I don't think I'm that clever with it!

So, the Mac mini, I feel has terrible feet, it moves at the slightest push of a feather duster! Just to eliminate that and get it to sit more sturdily I was thinking of black Ravioli isolation... But I don't want it to change the sound...

Could someone please help! it will truly be appreciated! Any inputs on other isolation things would also be appreciated! Thanks!

 

[CnoEvil]

I did a write up here: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/black-ravioli

I think it is very expensive, but can give good results. It is vital that you get a "demo pack" and try it in your system.

Valhalla Technology are worth looking out for as well, and much cheaper: http://www.kronosav.com/accessories/isolation.html

 

[Anonymous]

if you believe it will make your hifi sound better then it will. but why not believe that putting some cheap rubber underneath everything will make it all sound better and thus save a load of money while getting the same benefit?

 

[MakkaPakka]

Why don't you connect the mac mini to a monitor, put some video or a still image on it then repeatedly nudge it and see if it has any effect on the picture quality. If it doesn't then you can reasonably assume the sound isn't going to be affected by small differences in the surface it's sitting on.

 

[unknown]

hello hone -u2, you could try some double sided sticky tape under your components feet to stop them sliding about.

as for isolation, you could try blutack - cheaper than that ravioli product !

 

[davedotco]

Does your Mac Mini store music files too....?

If so, then it is imperitive you swap the hard disc for a solid state drive, night and day difference....!

Works on Spotify too, download the tracks to the SSD using Offline Mode, then listen from there. much better than listening online in real time.

 

[Macspur]

Some acoustifeet from www.acoustiproducts would be ideal for you and very inexpensive.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[andyjm]

Hello people

I have a Mac mini going into a Chord QuteHD...

I have the beautifully made walnut hifi rack from... Hifi racks

Now, I'm a believer in isolation, but as much as i have tried, I've found mostly with the hifi products I've used, that the isolation feet they are equipped with originally do the best job, anything adding onto that just confuses the sonic signature for me if doing anything at all... I know this might sound very strange but I tend to prefer the sound without them. I know they are supposed to get rid of vibrations and sound 'clearer' and more 'articulate' but that doesn't always happen without taking away a few elements from the soundscape... And I feel i don't have much control over the results... Like when I change from a cobra cable to a chameleon cable, have a vague idea of what that might change, and I'm right... But with isolation, it all goes out of hand for me, as I don't think I'm that clever with it!

So, the Mac mini, I feel has terrible feet, it moves at the slightest push of a feather duster! Just to eliminate that and get it to sit more sturdily I was thinking of black Ravioli isolation... But I don't want it to change the sound...

Could someone please help! it will truly be appreciated! Any inputs on other isolation things would also be appreciated! Thanks!

It is only worth isolating equipment if it is microphonic - it picks up vibration and replays it through the speakers. Many electronic components change parameters when stressed physically. Valves are the most sensitive, but capacitors and resistors can also be sensitive. HOWEVER, in these days of surface mount components, the components are so small and firmly held that in most cases the problem doesn't exist.

How to tell - turn your amp way up with no music playing. Get a pencil and tap the case of the device you suspect is microphonic. If you hear something out of the speakers, then it may be worth looking at isolation. If the speaker remains silent, pour yourself a glass of wine and worry about something else.

 

[Macspur]

Hello people

I have a Mac mini going into a Chord QuteHD...

I have the beautifully made walnut hifi rack from... Hifi racks

Now, I'm a believer in isolation, but as much as i have tried, I've found mostly with the hifi products I've used, that the isolation feet they are equipped with originally do the best job, anything adding onto that just confuses the sonic signature for me if doing anything at all... I know this might sound very strange but I tend to prefer the sound without them. I know they are supposed to get rid of vibrations and sound 'clearer' and more 'articulate' but that doesn't always happen without taking away a few elements from the soundscape... And I feel i don't have much control over the results... Like when I change from a cobra cable to a chameleon cable, have a vague idea of what that might change, and I'm right... But with isolation, it all goes out of hand for me, as I don't think I'm that clever with it!

So, the Mac mini, I feel has terrible feet, it moves at the slightest push of a feather duster! Just to eliminate that and get it to sit more sturdily I was thinking of black Ravioli isolation... But I don't want it to change the sound...

Could someone please help! it will truly be appreciated! Any inputs on other isolation things would also be appreciated! Thanks!

It is only worth isolating equipment if it is microphonic - it picks up vibration and replays it through the speakers. Many electronic components change parameters when stressed physically. Valves are the most sensitive, but capacitors and resistors can also be sensitive. HOWEVER, in these days of surface mount components, the components are so small and firmly held that in most cases the problem doesn't exist.

How to tell - turn your amp way up with no music playing. Get a pencil and tap the case of the device you suspect is microphonic. If you hear something out of the speakers, then it may be worth looking at isolation. If the speaker remains silent, pour yourself a glass of wine and worry about something else.

Just tried your experiment... not a peep, too early for wine though, I'll have a second cup of tea instead.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi hone_u2

Blu Tack.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[ellisdj]

How do you use the Mac - do you purely stream low quality from spotify or do you play ripped music from an internal HD.

If you are using the Mac to play ripped music there are quite a few things to consider - and I think you are right to consider isolation - especially when ripping CDs. I would do all my ripping and playback powered off the battery and not plugged in. Attaching a noisey switching power supply to any systems anywhere in the system adds noise and woresens the sound. PC environments are extrmely noisey and you have to reduce it as much as possible. Its also supposed to make the ripped music sound worse as well - I have not tried a linear psu on a disc drive when ripping yet to compare.

The Chap is right about playing from an SSD over a standrad HD - however you want the OS on a seperate SSD to the music. You definately dont want to share the HD. In Fact if you put the OS on an SSD you can get away with the music files being stored on a Normal External HD Caddy and feed the computer USB or Sata/ Esata to Sata - however there are factors to consider doing that as well such as adding a linear power supply for the HD Caddy! about £150

You can go one better than a SSD for OS - but its only a valid option if you use the pc for music purposes only This is only worth doing if you have a properly optimised Audio PC music transport

 

[namefail]

Does your Mac Mini store music files too....?

If so, then it is imperitive you swap the hard disc for a solid state drive, night and day difference....!

Works on Spotify too, download the tracks to the SSD using Offline Mode, then listen from there. much better than listening online in real time.

Interesting, would the SSD having to setup a the primary drive with whatever OS running from it as well, and if not would using a pendrive or RAMdrive offer the same benefits. Or (I can supply my own pointy hat and corner) have I just been had?

 

[davedotco]

How do you use the Mac - do you purely stream low quality from spotify or do you play ripped music from an internal HD.

If you are using the Mac to play ripped music there are quite a few things to consider - and I think you are right to consider isolation - especially when ripping CDs. I would do all my ripping and playback powered off the battery and not plugged in. Attaching a noisey switching power supply to any systems anywhere in the system adds noise and woresens the sound. PC environments are extrmely noisey and you have to reduce it as much as possible. Its also supposed to make the ripped music sound worse as well - I have not tried a linear psu on a disc drive when ripping yet to compare.

The Chap is right about playing from an SSD over a standrad HD - however you want the OS on a seperate SSD to the music. You definately dont want to share the HD. In Fact if you put the OS on an SSD you can get away with the music files being stored on a Normal External HD Caddy and feed the computer USB or Sata/ Esata to Sata - however there are factors to consider doing that as well such as adding a linear power supply for the HD Caddy! about £150

You can go one better than a SSD for OS - but its only a valid option if you use the pc for music purposes only This is only worth doing if you have a properly optimised Audio PC music transport

Excellent.

When my new Mackbook arrives I shall keep the OS on the onboard SSD and the files on a separate USB thumb drive. With the 'Book on battery power and connected via a decent USB dac, that should cover most of the bases.

(I keep a small(ish) playlst current that I can load onto my 8GB iPod, so an 8GB thumb drive will keep everything consistent. My main library is on a NAS drive)

 

[ellisdj]

Does your Mac Mini store music files too....?

If so, then it is imperitive you swap the hard disc for a solid state drive, night and day difference....!

Works on Spotify too, download the tracks to the SSD using Offline Mode, then listen from there. much better than listening online in real time.

Interesting, would the SSD having to setup a the primary drive with whatever OS running from it as well, and if not would using a pendrive or RAMdrive offer the same benefits. Or (I can supply my own pointy hat and corner) have I just been had?

If I understand you correctly - you use the OS SSD as the main drive - not for the music to play back off ideally - you can play files back off a pendrive - but it then uses the USB socket for its power, that degrades quality as it injects noisey pc switching power onto the sound.

There are solutions that use linear or battery power for usb sources

 

[namefail]

My post above should have read...

Interesting, would the SSD have to be setup as the primary drive with whatever OS running from it, and if not would using a pendrive or RAMdrive offer the same benefits. Or (I can supply my own pointy hat and corner) have I just been had?

Sorry about my incoherence I sacked my proof reader, poor thing was overworked anyway.

 

[davedotco]

My post above should have read...

Interesting, would the SSD have to be setup as the primary drive with whatever OS running from it, and if not would using a pendrive or RAMdrive offer the same benefits. Or (I can supply my own pointy hat and corner) have I just been had?

Sorry about my incoherence I sacked my proof reader, poor thing was overworked anyway.

Using the laptop on battery power will make quite a difference, as will moving from a regular hard drive to an SSD.

When using Mrs DDC's iPad, even using Spotify Premium and Airplay via an AEX downloaded (offline) tracks sound better than when listening to real time downloads.

Rather than worry about mechanical isolation I would be more concerned with electromagnetic isolation. A Faraday Cage around the laptop would be a good solution though it does make it tricky operating the keyboard.

 

[bluedroog]

Cut squash balls in half.

 

[ellisdj]

My post above should have read...

Interesting, would the SSD have to be setup as the primary drive with whatever OS running from it, and if not would using a pendrive or RAMdrive offer the same benefits. Or (I can supply my own pointy hat and corner) have I just been had?

Sorry about my incoherence I sacked my proof reader, poor thing was overworked anyway.

Using the laptop on battery power will make quite a difference, as will moving from a regular hard drive to an SSD.

When using Mrs DDC's iPad, even using Spotify Premium and Airplay via an AEX downloaded (offline) tracks sound better than when listening to real time downloads.

Rather than worry about mechanical isolation I would be more concerned with electromagnetic isolation. A Faraday Cage around the laptop would be a good solution though it does make it tricky operating the keyboard.

[/quote

I think your on the nose talking about EMI - however there is still a lot of EMI generated is inside the laptop so a faraday cage wouldnt really help

 

[davedotco]

My post above should have read...

Interesting, would the SSD have to be setup as the primary drive with whatever OS running from it, and if not would using a pendrive or RAMdrive offer the same benefits. Or (I can supply my own pointy hat and corner) have I just been had?

Sorry about my incoherence I sacked my proof reader, poor thing was overworked anyway.

Using the laptop on battery power will make quite a difference, as will moving from a regular hard drive to an SSD.

When using Mrs DDC's iPad, even using Spotify Premium and Airplay via an AEX downloaded (offline) tracks sound better than when listening to real time downloads.

Rather than worry about mechanical isolation I would be more concerned with electromagnetic isolation. A Faraday Cage around the laptop would be a good solution though it does make it tricky operating the keyboard.

[/quote

I think your on the nose talking about EMI - however there is still a lot of EMI generated is inside the laptop so a faraday cage wouldnt really help

Of course the proximity of the components within the confines of a laptop case is not ideal. Maybe I should go back to an old fashioned pc in a big tower case where the various sections can be positioned farther apart and screened if necessary. Mind you power supplies could be difficult in this sort of setup.

Maybe I should just go back to my old Nano, no mechanical hard drive, battery power and low power processors leading to lower EMI..... :?

 

[abacus]

All electronics are affected by vibration, so make sure they are on a solid mount. Concrete is ideal (As used by professionals) but is not very practical for the home, however any quality engineered rack will do fine; (Use spikes if on carpet) so don’t spend silly money on it. (Combined Glass and steel racks are an excellent price/performance balance)

Under arduous use (Heavy shaking) a HDD can be damaged (Causing drop outs) and thus an SSD is better in this type of environment, however unless you are being silly a HDD will be fine.

Apart from the above, then unless you change the laws of physics there will be absolutely no difference between a HDD and SSD regarding sound, as it is totally dependent on the DAC used.

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[davedotco]

All electronics are affected by vibration, so make sure they are on a solid mount. Concrete is ideal (As used by professionals) but is not very practical for the home, however any quality engineered rack will do fine; (Use spikes if on carpet) so don’t spend silly money on it. (Combined Glass and steel racks are an excellent price/performance balance)

Under arduous use (Heavy shaking) a HDD can be damaged (Causing drop outs) and thus an SSD is better in this type of environment, however unless you are being silly a HDD will be fine.

Apart from the above, then unless you change the laws of physics there will be absolutely no difference between a HDD and SSD regarding sound, as it is totally dependent on the DAC used.

Hope this helps

Bill

I have just tried tapping the case of my laptop with the volume set high, nothing through the speakers.

Should I try hitting it harder, perhaps with a chunk of concrete....?

 

[hone_u2]

I did a write up here: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/black-ravioli

I think it is very expensive, but can give good results. It is vital that you get a "demo pack" and try it in your system.

Valhalla Technology are worth looking out for as well, and much cheaper: http://www.kronosav.com/accessories/isolation.html

Wow Cno that's a really good write up! Thanks for that! Unfortunately, I can't get a demo pack, i'll have to buy it straight... Is there any in particular you would recommend?

Why don't you connect the mac mini to a monitor, put some video or a still image on it then repeatedly nudge it and see if it has any effect on the picture quality. If it doesn't then you can reasonably assume the sound isn't going to be affected by small differences in the surface it's sitting on.

That's a good idea! I don't have a monitor though, I run it headless. However, I'm not sure audio through USB works the same way as video through HDMI, shouldn't the picture stability be more immune to nudging than audio? Audio I believe is more sensitive to vibrations??! I see where you're coming from though ... I will try it if I can

if you believe it will make your hifi sound better then it will. but why not believe that putting some cheap rubber underneath everything will make it all sound better and thus save a load of money while getting the same benefit?

The placebo effect haha I wish I could believe in something and it actually happened... Fortunately I'm quite fanatic and ruthless about my sound, so the chances of a placebo are less... thankfully! Though I take your point!

hello hone -u2, you could try some double sided sticky tape under your components feet to stop them sliding about.

as for isolation, you could try blutack - cheaper than that ravioli product !

You know I would love to do that! Except I just hate sticky tape for the surfaces it ruins... i really love my walnut finished veneer on my rack... Are you able to suggest a way around those sticky marks?

Does your Mac Mini store music files too....?

If so, then it is imperitive you swap the hard disc for a solid state drive, night and day difference....!

Works on Spotify too, download the tracks to the SSD using Offline Mode, then listen from there. much better than listening online in real time.

NO. I made sure of that before I bought it... I get music from my NAS onto it... I have not had the best experience with Apple drives playing music stored locally, although it is a 256 SSD, I felt when i heard it through the NAS (i.e. streaming one song/album/artist at a time through Audirvana) gave better results... That way the only load the SSD and the memory have are of the OS, and not the data (if that makes sense). So the NAS is connected to my Mac mini by way of an ethernet cable (same way we connect to a streamer) and the mac mini accesses the NAS drive through the Audirvana playlist maker, and it is then that it adds the songs on to the drive. The thing is, I was one of the people before who in my transition period needed to fully believe that coputers could be used as sources... So I did a lot of listening before I finalised my set up... So this is what it is now... NAS>ethernet to Mac mini>USB to Chord.

I have an SSD MacBook Pro Retina as well... But that sounds worse... I feel there are just too many variables in a laptop as compared to a desktop... And Apple's thing of placing the fans so that it goes beyond the audible listening range doesn't really work for me at all! It really is one of the noisiest things i feel, and it goes wild when you run Audirvana...

Spotify is great for finding music, but I feel the stream isn't clean enough... and there are these occassional times when it sounds lean or too fat... basically I feel there are inconsistencies...

I play Highres masters or my other CD rips...

Thanks for your suggestion though

[/quote]

It is only worth isolating equipment if it is microphonic - it picks up vibration and replays it through the speakers. Many electronic components change parameters when stressed physically. Valves are the most sensitive, but capacitors and resistors can also be sensitive. HOWEVER, in these days of surface mount components, the components are so small and firmly held that in most cases the problem doesn't exist.

How to tell - turn your amp way up with no music playing. Get a pencil and tap the case of the device you suspect is microphonic. If you hear something out of the speakers, then it may be worth looking at isolation. If the speaker remains silent, pour yourself a glass of wine and worry about something else.

[/quote]

Hi

Thanks for that...

Have tried that experiment tons of times before, my ATC preamp proved to be pretty immune thankfully, didn't do it on the amp as my speakers are Active... I thought there might have have been something at the top of the preamp initially, but no there wasn't much to it.

I wonder though (just thinking aloud), wouldn't the nature of vibration caused by internal components have a slightly different (maybe a more regulated) pattern of oscillations, than a pencil from the outside? So maybe the pencil test is good but not enough to mimic the actual problem? Just wondering...

Thanks

If you are using the Mac to play ripped music there are quite a few things to consider - and I think you are right to consider isolation - especially when ripping CDs. I would do all my ripping and playback powered off the battery and not plugged in. Attaching a noisey switching power supply to any systems anywhere in the system adds noise and woresens the sound. PC environments are extrmely noisey and you have to reduce it as much as possible. Its also supposed to make the ripped music sound worse as well - I have not tried a linear psu on a disc drive when ripping yet to compare.

Hi

Thanks for your reply...

I have a mac mini... It doesn't have a battery... I use my macBook pro with retina to put my music onto my NAS... is that what you're suggesting?

Hi hone_u2

Blu Tack.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi Rick

Thanks for that...

That was the 1st thing I tried! ... though weirdly enough, in humid climate the blu tak started separating and the oily blue stuff got stuck to my veneers... had to change the whole shelf! I used the Bostik ones... Would you think there are other better ones?

Thanks a lot rick!

Thanks a lot for the replies people! I'm gonna try all these things...

 

[abacus]

All electronics are affected by vibration, so make sure they are on a solid mount. Concrete is ideal (As used by professionals) but is not very practical for the home, however any quality engineered rack will do fine; (Use spikes if on carpet) so don’t spend silly money on it. (Combined Glass and steel racks are an excellent price/performance balance)

Under arduous use (Heavy shaking) a HDD can be damaged (Causing drop outs) and thus an SSD is better in this type of environment, however unless you are being silly a HDD will be fine.

Apart from the above, then unless you change the laws of physics there will be absolutely no difference between a HDD and SSD regarding sound, as it is totally dependent on the DAC used.

Hope this helps

Bill

I have just tried tapping the case of my laptop with the volume set high, nothing through the speakers.

Should I try hitting it harder, perhaps with a chunk of concrete....?

Don’t confuse shock and vibration, as while they are be connected, they are not the same.

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[cheeseboy]

:cheer: wow, this thread has come up with quite a few new hifi gems for people to bat around... ripping on battery powering sounding better than plugged in, ssd's over hdd's, usb sticks and their power.... Gods sake, I thought that people were finally starting to get over this voodoo bullcrap, but it appears not. :roll:

 

[bluedroog]

Don't forget to make sure all the screw heads in your plugs and sockets are aligned. oke: