What have you done Cno?....now I believe in Black Ravioli

[shafesk]

I am not pleased with myself. Reading about Black Ravioli from Cno, I decided to give it a go. So I picked up these Chinese facsimilies. Essentially they are small stickty flat circular rubber feet that go underneath existing equipment feet. They cost me a princely sum of 1.20 pounds for about 30 pieces. I stacked four of these bits together and stuck them under my amplifier's feet (a stack of 4 on each feet, 16 in total). Then I made stacks of four and stuck them on the four conrners of my dac magic placed horizontally. Now either I have gone completely insane or they have made a great deal of difference. Not the tonal charecteristics but the soundstage. My speakers don't sound separate anymore, it sounds more like a single gigantic speaker. Now if someone told me a month ago that there was more air around the instruments I would have shot them in the face :wall: Well, I suppose I owe Cno a thanks for talking about the Black Raviolis, we all know how much redicule someone can take talking about these on a forum. I am more open to try tweaking now....Hell if it costs pocket change, why shouldn't we?

Best Regards,

Shafin

 

[shooter]

I agree, if its cheap enough to try without busting the bank then why not, regardless of howe crazy it may seem. I've never used Black Rav but i've always used Sorbothane pads under my speaks and now i'm using Budinga isolation cones under my transport and dac. I bought 4 some years ago to pick up an Isotek mini sub to fit a AEX in the back, not for isolation purposes; that sold and i kept the cones.

With my new set up i had issues with the sound of the music, it just seemed a bit lost and the bottom end was amiss somehow, so i put the feet underneath and it cured the problem straight away, the music snaped into focus and the bottom end has more purpose, i was suprised to say the least, so i bought 4 more put them under the dac for asethetic reasons 8)

 

[CnoEvil]

A good Sunday morning to you Shafin.

What you're using sounds like a better value version of this:
http://www.kronosav.com/products#ecwid:category=1570029&mode=product&product=7659100

I'm delighted that you got a positive effect, which is exactly why I talk about this type of stuff. It is always worth experimenting, either with a cheap solution, or getting to know a dealer who will lend it out.

Valve amps in particular (or anything that has tubes), often respond very well....but it's worth trying them under everything, including the speakers.

I suspect Black Ravioli will do an even better job, but at many times the cost.

Thank you for the feedback

Cno

 

[acalex]

Please, where did you buy these copies of BR? I really would like to experiment a cheap solution before going for the best . Thanks a lot

 

[shafesk]

A very good morning to you too Cno and Shooter. Yes Cno, they do look like the ones I have been using, mine look a bit more rubbery and are springy. I might end up putting some under the speaker spikes too, I'm just a bit worried about stability....my beautiful MS's have fallen once, it broke my heart. I have a little problem, I didn't know that my amp was heavier at the back, so while the front side of my amp is nice and springy the back is quite stiff...do you guys think I should put more than 4 at the back till it becomes springy too or should I remove a few from the front? I'm saving up for some black ravioli but it is quite expensive and I can't find a dealer here who would let me borrow some. Maybe I should try some metal cone feet, 3 for 30 pounds...not too shabby....

 

[shafesk]

Please, where did you buy these copies of BR? I really would like to experiment a cheap solution before going for the best . Thanks a lot

Hey acalex, I got them from a local hardware store. They are supposed to be put under heavy furniture or equipment. I think they are widely available and you can pretty much get them at any hardware store. I'll put up a photo of them tonight so you can have a better look.

 

[CnoEvil]

You want to try and keep the amp as level as possible....If you have a spirit level, see how far out it is, and if necessary, put another one on each side (it will also compress down over time).

Regarding your speakers....what are the spikes resting on, and what sort of floor is under them.

Metal/wooden cones do a different thing, but again, are worth trying.

 

[acalex]

Please, where did you buy these copies of BR? I really would like to experiment a cheap solution before going for the best . Thanks a lot

Hey acalex, I got them from a local hardware store. They are supposed to be put under heavy furniture or equipment. I think they are widely available and you can pretty much get them at any hardware store. I'll put up a photo of them tonight so you can have a better look.

Thanks a lot. I would really like to try something like this. If you can post a pic that would be great.

My valve amp is 35Kg and indeed is much heavier at the back...

 

[acalex]

You want to try and keep the amp as level as possible....If you have a spirit level, see how far out it is, and if necessary, put another one on each side (it will also compress down over time).

Regarding your speakers....what are the spikes resting on, and what sort of floor is under them.

Metal/wooden cones do a different thing, but again, are worth trying.

Cno, quick question...I have speakers on spikes sitting on wooden floor, do you think putting another wooden layer between spikes and floor would change/improve something? Thanks

Alex

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno, quick question...I have speakers on spikes sitting on wooden floor, do you think putting another wooden layer between spikes and floor would change/improve something? Thanks

Alex

Is the floor suspended, or is the floor laid on top of concrete.

 

[acalex]

Cno, quick question...I have speakers on spikes sitting on wooden floor, do you think putting another wooden layer between spikes and floor would change/improve something? Thanks

Alex

Is the floor suspended, or is the floor laid on top of concrete.

Not sure but I would guess is a suspended floor...

 

[shafesk]

My spikes are resting on a suspended wooden floor (I know I know) but they sound much better with the spike than with the rubber feet MS provided.

 

[CnoEvil]

Not sure but I would guess is a suspended floor...

Where the floor is suspended, you need to isolate (de-couple) the speakers from it....spikes do the opposite of this. The simplest thing to try, is putting a £10 Granite Worktop Saver (30cm x 40cm)) under each speaker. The spikes will need "spike shoes" so they can rest on the Granite.

I went one stage further and used Granite plus Auralex Grammas, to sort out the very ingrained problem that I have...pictured here for Ben (post No.4): http://www.whathifi.com/forum/your-system/bens-hifi?page=2

 

[CnoEvil]

My spikes are resting on a suspended wooden floor (I know I know) but they sound much better with the spike than with the rubber feet MS provided.

You should also try the Granite fix (where the spikes are still used).....see above post to Acalex

 

[shooter]

A old member here used to swear about putting cross type posi screws into the suspended floor then sitting the speaker stands into those, somehow by decoupling the floor and stands this way helped with resonant issues, easy and cheap enough to try i guess.

 

[shafesk]

oops, turns out my wooden floor is laid on top of concrete if I'm correct. The guy came and started laying these "pieces of wood" on top of my mosaic floors. So I think I can get by without the granite fix, looked complicated as well. Gotta say Cno, if you made that yourself-job well done

 

[CnoEvil]

oops, turns out my wooden floor is laid on top of concrete if I'm correct. The guy came and started laying these "pieces of wood" on top of my mosaic floors. So I think I can get by without the granite fix, looked complicated as well. Gotta say Cno, if you made that yourself-job well done

Where the floor is solid, it is usually better to couple the speakers to it, which sinks the unwanted vibrations into it.

Thank you for the kind words.....that piece of "structural engineering" had the biggest single effect of anything else I did (and was probably the cheapest).

Cno

 

[WishTree]

That is a great news! I will experiment with putting them under the amplifier too.

Regarding Speaker suport, based on cnos suggestion, I have put granite slabs which are 3cm thick. On the bottom of the granite slab I have put a self adhesive floor protector felt. It has done a great job in cutting down the harshness and widening the soundstage. This is quite simple to do as well.

I think some of my new system pics have the granite slabs as well.

 

[acalex]

oops, turns out my wooden floor is laid on top of concrete if I'm correct. The guy came and started laying these "pieces of wood" on top of my mosaic floors. So I think I can get by without the granite fix, looked complicated as well. Gotta say Cno, if you made that yourself-job well done

Where the floor is solid, it is usually better to couple the speakers to it, which sinks the unwanted vibrations into it.

Thank you for the kind words.....that piece of "structural engineering" had the biggest single effect of anything else I did (and was probably the cheapest).

Cno

Cno, I checked the pictures and it looks amazing. I would like to make something like that myself, what did you use a part from the granite top saver? Do you have a separate topic on how wo build these amazing stands?

Thanks a lot

Alex

EDIT: So the solution would be to remove the spikes and use normel feet instead (better maybe isolation pads) on top of Auralex grammar which sits on top of a granite top saver on suspended floor...correct?

 

[Anonymous]

:roll:

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno, I checked the pictures and it looks amazing. I would like to make something like that myself, what did you use a part from the granite top saver? Do you have a separate topic on how wo build these amazing stands?

Thanks a lot

Alex

If you read through Ben's HiFi thread, I describe in reasonable detail what I've done.

Each platform is made up of:

1 of these - http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/36069-auralex-gramma-amp-monitor-isolation-riser-single-.html#sterling_uk

and 2 of these (cheaper ones are available) - http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/8407454.htm

All you need to do then is trim with a wooden surround, which stabilizes the whole thing (as liked to, in above post). In my case, it made an astounding difference.

 

[CnoEvil]

EDIT: So the solution would be to remove the spikes and use normel feet instead (better maybe isolation pads) on top of Auralex grammar which sits on top of a granite top saver on suspended floor...correct?

My speakers came with alternative feet.....it would be worth trying with spikes (into spike shoes), and with no feet at all, which would give the biggest surface to surface contact with the Gramma (but harder to adjust, if not level)

With all these things, there are no hard and fast rules, and experimentation is the key.

Yes, each Gramma sits on top of 2 Granite boards.

 

[CnoEvil]

:roll:

 

[a91gti]

:roll:

+1

 

[acalex]

Cno, I checked the pictures and it looks amazing. I would like to make something like that myself, what did you use a part from the granite top saver? Do you have a separate topic on how wo build these amazing stands?

Thanks a lot

Alex

If you read through Ben's HiFi thread, I describe in reasonable detail what I've done.

Each platform is made up of:

1 of these - http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/36069-auralex-gramma-amp-monitor-isolation-riser-single-.html#sterling_uk

and 2 of these (cheaper ones are available) - http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/8407454.htm

All you need to do then is trim with a wooden surround, which stabilizes the whole thing (as liked to, in above post). In my case, it made an astounding difference.

Yes, I saw the explanation because from pictures I couldn't really see TWO granite tops on top of each other, it seemed only one. I guess you removed the rubber feet from the bottom granite...

What I still don't see is a thread with pics of your system as promised on Ben's thread :rofl: