Vinyl vs digital

[JDL]

What the dB refer to is the amount of attenuation being applied to the signal.
An attenuator is another name for a volume control (you probably already know this)

The levels go from infinity attenuation up to zero attenuation.

No I didn't know that, I'm going to have to research this so that I understand it properly.
Thank you anyway that's helpful.
Time to go and do some reading up on attenuation etc.😀

 

[JDL]

This has been answered before John but just look at 0dB as the maximum output of the amp. Don't try it though as I reckon you'll blow your speakers and eardrums Hope this helps, if not just come back and ask, it's what we're all here for

Thanks, I don't think I will do the zero decibel experiment. Tempting, but not enough to try it.😀

 

[podknocker]

I still can't believe we have a vinyl revival. CD will still be around a while, but the future is streaming.

This guy's videos are very entertaining and derision is never far away!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gvjzQc-f5U

 

[JDL]

Ha ha. Yes I watched thirty seconds of him telling audiophiles that they're all wasting their money, because their hearing is so poxy that they might as well just buy any old hi-fi.
I don't agree with him in the slightest. I can tell the difference between every CD player I've listened to, every integrated amplifier and most certainly every set of speakers I've tried. Every component I've listened to, have all sounded different. And that includes five different sets of stereo bookshelf speakers, in a few months.
However, he's an amusing, likeable fellow.

 

[daveh75]

I can tell the difference between every CD player I've listened to, every integrated amplifier and most certainly every set of speakers I've tried. Every component I've listened to, have all sounded different. And that includes five different sets of stereo bookshelf speakers, in a few months.
However, he's an amusing, likeable fellow.

How many of those comparisons have been blind? 😉

 

[Al ears]

How many of those comparisons have been blind? 😉

Pretty irrelevant if he has convinced himself he can hear a difference, and he is not implying others will do likewise.

 

[manicm]

How many of those comparisons have been blind? 😉

And how many blind tests have been done properly? I also have problem with AB testing that seems inherent - the 30 second listening snippet is all well and good, but only after extensive listening will you know if you're happy with a component or not.

 

[Al ears]

And how many blind tests have been done properly? I also have problem with AB testing that seems inherent - the 30 second listening snippet is all well and good, but only after extensive listening will you know if you're happy with a component or not.

it's not a matter of how long as your audio memory is about as long as a goldfishs'

 

[Deleted member 201267]

it's not a matter of how long as your audio memory is about as long as a goldfishs'

So why can i remember the voice of someone i had not seen for 20 years who i encountered whilst out shopping recently ?

 

[Dom]

So why can i remember the voice of someone i had not seen for 20 years who i encountered whilst out shopping recently ?

Because short-term auditory memory typically lasts for a few seconds to a minute, while long-term auditory memory can last for an extended period, potentially a lifetime.

Goldfish mean while can remember up to 5 months, when they were trained to associate a sound with feeding time.

Al was joking around. Don't always take him seriously, unless he specifically wants you to, in which case, do take him seriously.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

So why can i remember the voice of someone i had not seen for 20 years who i encountered whilst out shopping recently ?

Missing the point. Whilst you can remember voices in that context well, if you were trying to tell the difference between playback of that voice on different systems it would have to be using short segments.

 

[Deleted member 201267]

Missing the point. Whilst you can remember voices in that context well, if you were trying to tell the difference between playback of that voice on different systems it would have to be using short segments.

True i misunderstood his point.

I find if the differences are subtle then they are easy to forget, as opposed to obvious differences, that are easier to remember regardless of how long the audio snippet is.

For example a very short drum hit on a small bookshelf speaker verses the same drum hit on a huge concert style loudspeaker.

 

[manicm]

it's not a matter of how long as your audio memory is about as long as a goldfishs'

it's not a matter of how long as your audio memory is about as long as a goldfishs'

From my experience, you need a few hours of listening to discover a component's strengths and weaknesses. It's not about memory, it's about avoiding dogma.

30 second alternate snippets in the end tell you very little as opposed to listening to an entire song.

 

[JDL]

How many of those comparisons have been blind? 😉

I don't think that has much to do with it if you're honest with yourself.

 

[JDL]

Pretty irrelevant if he has convinced himself he can hear a difference, and he is not implying others will do likewise.

I haven't convinced myself of anything. There are clear audible differences between different components. Cables. They're a different matter. I had Van Damme Rean about 20 to 30 quid. The n I tried Chord Clearway 79 quid. I honestly couldn't really see any advantage in the pricier ones. So I'm not given to convincing myself of anything.
Honesty. That's the key and the pathway to truth.

 

[James105]

How many of those comparisons have been blind? 😉

Does anybody really listen to anything blind and level matched and if so to what 1.0dB, 0.5dB, 0.1dB?

 

[podknocker]

Ha ha. Yes I watched thirty seconds of him telling audiophiles that they're all wasting their money, because their hearing is so poxy that they might as well just buy any old hi-fi.
I don't agree with him in the slightest. I can tell the difference between every CD player I've listened to, every integrated amplifier and most certainly every set of speakers I've tried. Every component I've listened to, have all sounded different. And that includes five different sets of stereo bookshelf speakers, in a few months.
However, he's an amusing, likeable fellow.

There is a point where human hearing cannot discern between devices and I don't think people like to admit it.

I've heard differences in budget, or average CD players and amplifiers, but when you get into high end audio, there's little room for improvement.

I doubt anyone, including myself, could hear the difference between a £5000 power amp and one at £10000

I do however think the biggest differences can be found in loudspeakers. They really are very different.

 

[abacus]

I do however think the biggest differences can be found in loudspeakers. They really are very different.

The same applies to turntables as they are mechanical like speakers.

Bill

 

[Dom]

I was talking to the people in my local Sevenoaks and drooling over there McIntosh MA7200 which is a very expensive £9,995.
He said that, while the McIntosh amp has plenty of power and lots of scale, it might not sound any better than my amplifier.

Lets just say I felt relieved about my choice in amplifier.

​

 

[TrevC]

I was talking to the people in my local Sevenoaks and drooling over there McIntosh MA7200 which is a very expensive £9,995.
He said that, while the McIntosh amp has plenty of power and lots of scale, it might not sound any better than my amplifier.

Lets just say I felt relieved about my choice in amplifier.

​

Even budget amps these days have flat responses and inaudible levels of distortion if used under the maximum power. The McIntosh isn't going to sound better.

 

[Dom]

Even budget amps these days have flat responses and inaudible levels of distortion if used under the maximum power. The McIntosh isn't going to sound better.

Yes, most people often think that the more expensive a piece of hi-fi equipment is, the better its going to sound which isn't true. The best choice must be one that aligns the rest of your audio setup and budget then.

 

[Gray]

Does anybody really listen to anything blind and level matched and if so to what 1.0dB, 0.5dB, 0.1dB?

Well they certainly could do James.
Assuming they use the same amp and speakers - many amps display to within 1dB (some even 0.5dB).

 

[plastic penguin]

Isn't decibels dictated by speaker sensitivity? On my amp it has little lights around the volume and each one is allegedly 1db, but since I've had the Dalis they are 86db into 6 ohms and require the volume to be raised a little more. Whereas the PMCs are 90db into 8 ohms. As a consequence I couldn't tell you what decibels I play the system at.

 

[abacus]

Even budget amps these days have flat responses and inaudible levels of distortion if used under the maximum power. The McIntosh isn't going to sound better.

Depends on the speaker, some of the more expensive ones will bring budget amplifiers to their knees in no time at all. (Power supplies and output stages are very important and budget amps are built to a price, so something has to go)
Remember the amp doesn't change its sound as such, it just varies on how it reacts to the speaker. (Which is easily measurable)

Bill

 

[Gray]

Isn't decibels dictated by speaker sensitivity?

Yes, the dB level reaching your ears is partially down to speaker sensitivity - so for that reason you can't expect your LED ring to display the actual level you listen at.
(Regardless of how it's response to adjustment is calibrated, or how the LEDs are marked).

But it might be giving a very accurate indication of relative level changes.
I say 'might' because the calibration and resolution is critical.

Take my example:
Old Cyrus amp had a ring of 15 LEDs around the volume knob.

New Cyrus amp electronically displays 1dB increments from a -80dB min, to the 0dB max.

So the old amp's LEDs had nowhere near enough resolution - plus the fact that the range was not calibrated evenly across them (wasn't a linear response).

Would be interesting to know what your Leema LEDs represent.....if there were enough of them, they could be showing 1dB changes??

(1dB is recognised by many as being about the lowest change audibly detectable - though others claim to be able to hear lower figures.....probably the same ones that hear the magic of cables).