Vinyl vs digital

[James105]

Well they certainly could do James.
Assuming they use the same amp and speakers - many amps display to within 1dB (some even 0.5dB).

That would work if all sources, say CD players have the same output voltage, but they often don't. I think its supposed to be 2 volts but some (thinking Arcam here back in the 90's) push it to 2.2 so with the same volume setting on the amp they will be louder and so sound better. I demoed an Arcam Alpha 8 against a Rega Apollo CDP and the dealer said I will turn the volume down with the arcam for that reason.

 

[James105]

There is a point where human hearing cannot discern between devices and I don't think people like to admit it.

I've heard differences in budget, or average CD players and amplifiers, but when you get into high end audio, there's little room for improvement.

I doubt anyone, including myself, could hear the difference between a £5000 power amp and one at £10000

I do however think the biggest differences can be found in loudspeakers. They really are very different.

I don’t think I’ve ever been in the same room as a £5000 power amp let alone a £10000 one

 

[JDL]

Isn't decibels dictated by speaker sensitivity? On my amp it has little lights around the volume and each one is allegedly 1db, but since I've had the Dalis they are 86db into 6 ohms and require the volume to be raised a little more. Whereas the PMCs are 90db into 8 ohms. As a consequence I couldn't tell you what decibels I play the system at.

The way I understand it, is that an amplifier manufacturer can't know what speakers the amplifier is going to be running or what dB rating the recording was put down at. Therefore the amplifier manufacturer has no way of knowing what number of Db will come out of the speakers ultimately. I'm no expert in all of this but I believe you're right.

 

[Gray]

That would work if all sources, say CD players have the same output voltage, but they often don't.

Indeed, more chance of a non- match with CDPs / DACs.
But I was thinking (God forbid) about blind testing cables 😱

 

[Gray]

The way I understand it, is that an amplifier manufacturer can't know what speakers the amplifier is going to be running

You're both right 👍 - they can show how far the volume control is off min or max, but they can't know the actual volume he's hearing.
(See post #275).

 

[plastic penguin]

You're both right 👍 - they can show how far the volume control is off min or max, but they can't know the actual volume he's hearing.
(See post #275).

The upshot is I have no idea how loud the music is in dbs.

 

[JDL]

Indeed, more chance of a non- match with CDPs / DACs.
But I was thinking (God forbid) about blind testing cables 😱

Cables. Oh my God. That is a contentious issue. Just don't do it. You'll trigger someone.

 

[plastic penguin]

The way I understand it, is that an amplifier manufacturer can't know what speakers the amplifier is going to be running or what dB rating the recording was put down at. Therefore the amplifier manufacturer has no way of knowing what number of Db will come out of the speakers ultimately. I'm no expert in all of this but I believe you're right.

Thanks for confirming that.

 

[plastic penguin]

Just don't do it. You'll trigger someone.

Insanity 😁

 

[Gray]

....a cheap dB meter (or an app on your phone) will give you some idea of your listening level.

 

[abacus]

Most amp volumes work backwards these days, so that 0db is max power and then going all the way down to nothing, so essentially it just tells you how many decibels are changing in the amp, because (As has been mentioned) it is not known what speakers they will be used with.
AV amps on the other hand (Assuming you are using the room correction software or a decibel meter) adjust 0db to be 75db at the listening position, so it doesn't matter what speaker you use.

Bill

 

[Friesiansam]

Most amp volumes work backwards these days, so that 0db is max power and then going all the way down to nothing, so essentially it just tells you how many decibels are changing in the amp, because (As has been mentioned) it is not known what speakers they will be used with.
AV amps on the other hand (Assuming you are using the room correction software or a decibel meter) adjust 0db to be 75db at the listening position, so it doesn't matter what speaker you use.

Bill

Buy a Pathos amp, then you won’t need to worry about numbers on the volume control, because there are none!

Actually, in true Pathos style, my DAC/headphone amp has no front panel markings or labels whatsoever. The volume control also works in an odd way but, it drives my headphones very well.

 

[Gray]

The volume control also works in an odd way

What's odd about it?

 

[Friesiansam]

What's odd about it?

It doesn't rotate in the usual way, it always stays at the centre position. To change the volume it rotates 30° to the right (up) or left (down), then returns to the centre position. LEDs indicate volume setting but, there are no numbers. It works well enough but, I can't help thinking it's different just because it can be.

 

[Gray]

It doesn't rotate in the usual way, it always stays at the centre position. To change the volume it rotates 30° to the right (up) or left (down), then returns to the centre position. LEDs indicate volume setting but, there are no numbers. It works well enough but, I can't help thinking it's different just because it can be.

Ah, that sounds like a very much posher, horizontal version of the up/down control on my crude, wired, extension remote.

A centre-off switch, non-latching either side of off. So you hold it one way or the other as the volume changes 👍

 

[Friesiansam]

Ah, that sounds like a very much posher, horizontal version of the up/down control on my crude, wired, extension remote.

A centre-off switch, non-latching either side of off. So you hold it one way or the other as the volume changes 👍
View attachment 5288

You’re basically right but, the Pathos control is still a round knob, it just doesn’t rotate far.

 

[Gray]

You’re basically right but, the Pathos control is still a round knob, it, just doesn’t rotate far.

That's nice - and all the smarter for having no markings (let's face it, there really is no need for them)

And though it's a round knob, its doing the same as what a centre-off rocker would do (makes a single contact either side).