Russ Andrews research papers

[aliEnRIK]

Russ Andrews has released the research papers on " Interference & Distortion Reducing Capabilities
of Woven PowerKords™" and "Reduction in RFI and Distortion using Clamps on AC Mains"

They can be found HERE

Independently done by BEN DUNCAN RESEARCH and both PROVE that both braided interwoven mains cables and mains conditioners (At least of Russ Andrews design) DO reduce mains bourne RFI.

And also that RFI does MEASUREABLY effect amplifiers

So I can now sit at home KNOWING my Isotek Sigmas mains conditioner and my 16 core braided cables MEASUREABLY make a difference to my sound and vison as well as hearing and seeing it

 

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately, that's not the case. There are lots of papers from a bewildering variety of groups which come to vastly different conclusions, plus there's all that research in University libraries not currently available on the web. Proof is always difficult over something like this.

Also ask yourself the question: what business are Russ Andrews in?

 

[aliEnRIK]

Russ Andrews were fined and had to change their catalogue because they initally couldnt PROVE what they claimed. They now have and would have to be incredibly stupid to put it on their website if they didnt have the proof due to what happened in the past

It would kill them dead

So fortunately it IS the case (And if you want to take grievence with this ~ contact Ben has hes left all details. Or the ASA that originally fined Russ)

 

[Messiah]

Maybe they do make a difference. I am not convinced though at the moment that it is one that justifies the outlay.

At the Bristol Show I sat through Russ Andrews demo and was not impressed. He first off all demonstrated the benefits of twisted cables compared to untwisted. However, the untwisted ones were 'bell wire' and the twisted ones were Kimber cable. Now there was a difference as we would all expect but surely to have made the test fair it should have been the same type of cable used??

As for mains products......he demonstrated the equipment on a normal mains and then with a £2000 balanced mains and I could not hear a difference! Maybe you would need a super system and super ears to hear the benefits?? Russ was asking the room if they could hear the difference and you could see that most were quite bemused but noone wanted to speak up about not hearing a difference. However, several people, once out of the demo agreed that there was not much difference. Maybe a longer demo was needed??

My conclusion was that whilst they might be able to prove it made a difference it was not one that was audibly beneficial. Not to me anyway.............

 

[aliEnRIK]

They work as my own custom made (nothing to do with Russ Andrews and FAR cheaper) braided cables have made a world of difference. As has my Isotek Sigmas mains conditioner.

Only reason I posted is because Russ has gone to great lengths to prove it MEASUREABLY

 

[Messiah]

Hey, I'm glad they do work. There are many people who say they do so I am not gonna equivocally say they don't.

My experience to date certainly put them at the bottom of the upgrade ladder in terms of geting 'sound for you pound'. However, others like Trevor79 are always recommending cleaning up the mains first of all.

However, if I had spent £2000 on a unit from RA I would some serious sonic improvement! But again, I guess the cost needs to be put into perspective with the kit owned.

Like a lot of topics on here though there are those that believe and those that don't. If you can hear an improvement then great! If you cannot, you get to save some money for something else. Also great!

 

[idc]

I received my RA booklets this morning and read the abbreviated layman's description of the effects of RFI. I am happy to be convinced, especially since I have heard differences with my own ears. As for other papers which state the opposite, who do they work for and if I read one then it would leave me thinking, so why do I hear a difference?

 

[Anonymous]

Messiah:
Hey, I'm glad they do work. There are many people who say they do so I am not gonna equivocally say they don't.

My experience to date certainly put them at the bottom of the upgrade ladder in terms of geting 'sound for you pound'. However, others like Trevor79 are always recommending cleaning up the mains first of all.

However, if I had spent £2000 on a unit from RA I would some serious sonic improvement! But again, I guess the cost needs to be put into perspective with the kit owned.

Like a lot of topics on here though there are those that believe and those that don't. If you can hear an improvement then great! If you cannot, you get to save some money for something else. Also great!

Yes, but you don't need to spend £2k to find serious improvements.

Some cost next to nothing, like cleaning plugs, tightening connections, tiding up the wiring to lessen the interaction with other cables. Not overloading a poor 13A socket with all your HiFi!

I wish people would take a closer look at these things so they can get the full benefit of the system, you never know they might even be surprised how much they gain/enjoy it.

Spending a little money on Russ Andrews superclamps, (£7) decent mains cables makes a lot of sense, as many people have found.

Personally I will always try something with an open mind, and if it works I will use it, if it doesn't I will send it back.

Off now to have a nice dinner and later watch a Blue ray film.
Have a nice evening everyone.

 

[Anonymous]

Trevor, I think you've missed the point, but enjoy the film. I'm set for an hour and a half of watching France play very pretty football without putting the ball into the back of the net.

 

[idc]

Messiah:

Hey, I'm glad they do work. There are many people who say they do so I am not gonna equivocally say they don't.

My experience to date certainly put them at the bottom of the upgrade ladder in terms of geting 'sound for you pound'.

Messiah, when you say 'they do work' and 'put them at the bottom of the upgrade ladder' what is it that you are talking about? I have found with various upgrades that the various cables/mains changes have worked as follows; worst top to best bottom;

-mains extensions

-power cables

-cleaning the contacts

-interconnects

-speaker cables

-attenuated interconnects

-mains conditioners

 

[Messiah]

trevor79:
Yes, but you don't need to spend £2k to find serious improvements.

The £2k quoted was in reference to the post before in which I was explaining that I had heard a £2k balanced connection and could hear no improvements.

I am sure that those that hear the improvements would agree that you don't need to spend anywhere near that.

 

[Messiah]

idc:Messiah:

Hey, I'm glad they do work. There are many people who say they do so I am not gonna equivocally say they don't.

My experience to date certainly put them at the bottom of the upgrade ladder in terms of geting 'sound for you pound'.

Messiah, when you say 'they do work' and 'put them at the bottom of the upgrade ladder' what is it that you are talking about?

When I said 'they do work', that was in reference to you so 'I'm glad they work for you'.

As for the 'bottom of the upgrade ladder', in my experience I have found that I would get better sonic improvements from upgrading other components in a system before the mains.

Maybe my own mains supply is not that bad so I have little improvement to gain?? I'll be moving soon so I may have different experiences??

 

[aliEnRIK]

Messiah:
trevor79:
Yes, but you don't need to spend £2k to find serious improvements.

The £2k quoted was in reference to the post before in which I was explaining that I had heard a £2k balanced connection and could hear no improvements.

I am sure that those that hear the improvements would agree that you don't need to spend anywhere near that.

I cant comment on whatever cable you listened through. But Ive found that if the rest of the system isnt set up correctly then you WONT hear any (or very little) improvements

Personally I now advise starting with mains cables, then interconnects, then speaker cables, then whatever else you wish to try (conditioner, solid hifi rack, better earthing etc). First and formost though is making sure the speakers are sat down as SOLID as possible (Biggest difference to my system by far)

Once you have all the above THEN try listening to a 2k interconnect im 99% sure youll tell the difference (Assuming its 'run in')

As for cash ~ the tm3 mains cables I use start from about 60 quid (And outperform anything else near the price). You could easily START cheaper, but theyre so good id recommend buying them from the outset for the price. Silver plated braided interconnects from about 50 quid. Speaker cables a touch more expensive as I find it difficult to find cheap 'decent' speaker cable. So lets say a couple of hundred quid for quite a leap in quality for a basic cd, amp and speakers set up.

Hell ~ if you wanna go really cheap you could buy some Cat5 or 6 ethernet cable and make your own braid. Most of these cable manufacturers take the p*** with the pricing

WHY would you WANT to spend a couple of hundred quid or more on cabling?

Heres an example ~

system 1 costs 1k with 200 quids worth of cabling

system 2 costs 2k with 'basic' cabling

system 1 is 800 quid cheaper but SOUNDS better then the 2k one.

Simple economics

 

[Messiah]

aliEnRIK:
WHY would you WANT to spend a couple of hundred quid or more on cabling?

Heres an example ~

system 1 costs 1k with 200 quids worth of cabling

system 2 costs 2k with 'basic' cabling

system 1 is 800 quid cheaper but SOUNDS better then the 2k one.

Simple economics

I am all for better cabling. Really. But are you really suggesting that for example, a Marantz cd6002 connected to a PM6002 amp and B&W685 with decent cabling will sound better than say a Cyrus CD6SE connected to a Roksan Kandy K2 and the B&W's again! Using standard 'in the box' wire.

C'mon..........

 

[idc]

Messiah, earlier when I asked you what you were referring to I should have emphasised the 'they' and 'them'. What upgrades are you referring to? Is it all cables or just mains cables? That was why I listed various upgrades because I do not think that all upgrades are equal. I agree with you that the best upgrade is a whole new piece of kit.

 

[Anonymous]

aliEnRIK:
Personally I now advise starting with mains cables, then interconnects, then speaker cables, then whatever else you wish to try (conditioner, solid hifi rack, better earthing etc). First and formost though is making sure the speakers are sat down as SOLID as possible (Biggest difference to my system by far)

You start with mains cabling? In my experience it's speaker cabling that has the most impact on the final sound but mains cabling normally has no effect at all. I agree about the solidity of speaker stands.

 

[aliEnRIK]

Cyril Mason:aliEnRIK:
Personally I now advise starting with mains cables, then interconnects, then speaker cables, then whatever else you wish to try (conditioner, solid hifi rack, better earthing etc). First and formost though is making sure the speakers are sat down as SOLID as possible (Biggest difference to my system by far)

You start with mains cabling? In my experience it's speaker cabling that has the most impact on the final sound but mains cabling normally has no effect at all. I agree about the solidity of speaker stands.

Properly braided cables. And yes (Though id go for all 3 at once personally as anything left out of the loop is going to hold the others back from doing anything)

 

[Messiah]

idc:Messiah, earlier when I asked you what you were referring to I should have emphasised the 'they' and 'them'. What upgrades are you referring to? Is it all cables or just mains cables? That was why I listed various upgrades because I do not think that all upgrades are equal. I agree with you that the best upgrade is a whole new piece of kit.

The first point was actually aimed at alienerik in that I am glad the mains product worked for him. As for 'them'.this is again aimed at mains products. I have certainly heard differences with interconnects and speaker cables but none to date with mains products. I have a tacima and have really struggled to see/hear a difference. I have Merlin tarantula mains cables and again have struggled to see/hear a difference and finally the unit used by RA at the Bristol show again produced no improvement IMO of course.

I'm going to be moving soon so I am going to experiment again with the mains products I have and see if I can see/hear an improvement.

 

[aliEnRIK]

The Tacima is only any good for low wattage devices (no amps or tvs or suchlike should be plugged into them)

Ive tried a merlin black widow cable and wasnt at all impressed with it

It could be you have an exceptionally good mains supply where you live in which case simply preventing EMI from getting into the system and allowing a good strong current is the best you can hope for with mains products

I can only speak from my own experience and the braided cables have made an awesome difference to EVERYTHING thats plugged in (pioneer tv, denon av, cd player etc)

 

[basshound]

While this research may prove that the cables and conditioners reduce RFI is there any proof/research that reducing this improves the sound or that it affects the sound in the first place?

 

[Anonymous]

basshound:While this research may prove that the cables and conditioners reduce RFI is there any proof/research that reducing this improves the sound or that it affects the sound in the first place?

No, and in my opinion it never will because there is no link. The amount of RFI reduction demonstrated in these "research papers" is insignificant in any case.

Instilling a belief appears to be a far more effective marketing tool than demonstrating the facts of the matter.

 

[aliEnRIK]

It PROVES that it measurably effects amplifiers. Small to be sure, but still 'measured'

So the question now is ~ how much does it effect sound quality?

May I ask what amp you use Cyril, WHY you chose it and what THD it has? (And wether you believe THD is relevent)

What makes a good amplifier? Why does a 200 quid amp differ from a 1k amp. Why spend 20k on an amp when a 2k amp should be plentiful?

One thing is certain ~ theyre MEASURED for their differences. They might be minute differences, but you can sure HEAR the difference between them.

 

[Anonymous]

aliEnRIK: It PROVES that it measurably effects amplifiers.

No it doesn't. It shows correlation to the original theory and therefore supports it. However, this is not "proof". It is empirical evidance that does not disprove it. If anyone repeats the same experiment independantly and reaches significantly difference results then, essentially, you cannot say too much about either!

I'm not saying whether cables of any kind do or do not have an effect (I've never tried for myself, so cannot comment) but your statement that these papers represent absolute proof is completely inappropriate.

It's also pointless - believers will never need proof, whilst no amount of proof will ever sway non-believers.

 

[idc]

basshound:While this research may prove that the cables and conditioners reduce RFI is there any proof/research that reducing this improves the sound or that it affects the sound in the first place?

For me the proof is when I plug my Silencer in and the backgound hiss through my headphones disappears. I thought I had a problem with my amp recently and took my ipod and headphones to my parents. The first thing that I noticed when I plugged the headphones in was the return of background hiss.

I think that you make a very good point basshound and in one genius sentence you have explained why products such as mains conditioners, cables etc spark such a huge debate!

I would liken the effect of mains conditioners to listening to music with and without background noise, say a neighbour mowing the lawn. Some people find that really irritating. Others do not and if you were to ask them about the neighbour's lawm mowing they would not even remember it happening.

 

[aliEnRIK]

RainMeister:
aliEnRIK: It PROVES that it measurably effects amplifiers.

No it doesn't. It shows correlation to the original theory and therefore supports it. However, this is not "proof". It is empirical evidance that does not disprove it. If anyone repeats the same experiment independantly and reaches significantly difference results then, essentially, you cannot say too much about either!

I'm not saying whether cables of any kind do or do not have an effect (I've never tried for myself, so cannot comment) but your statement that these papers represent absolute proof is completely inappropriate.

It's also pointless - believers will never need proof, whilst no amount of proof will ever sway non-believers.

Fine

If were going to be THAT pedantic about it ~ its actually Empirical RESEARCH and you spelt EVIDENCE wrong.

At the end of the day Ben put an extremely well presented test together and his findings MEASURABLY showed in HIS experiment that RFI gave a higher reading of 'distortion' in the amplifier he used to test upon

Its true that it might effect OTHER amplifiers in different ways (or even not at all). But unless im mistaken, his evidence shows that it can (at least in SOME cases) effect amplifiers.